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Vaccine Hesitancy and Herd Immunity

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
I don't understand fears of flying either. Complaints of discomfort and mistreatment from TSA, yes, that does happen and is a thing. But flying itself, especially on commercial lines where they have Uncle Sam watching over their backs, are very rarely disastrous, hardly ever end in a crash, and go years without a single death. But why people are so afraid I just don't get it. Cars and other similar motor vehicles are what should scare them (especially other drivers).
Actually, that's one fear that I do have -- I have always been afraid of flying. White knuckles all the way!

However, and here's the punch-line, I have very often flown on business because I've been required to, and I have very often flown to holiday destinations because I wanted to be there.

The trick? There is none -- I just did my best to master my fear. It was always there, but I was in control.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
I can go on at length about fears I do not understand (such as people blowing head gaskets over transgender people using the bathroom of their identity, but not a peep about male janitors in there, even though some have planted hidden cameras in them).
I can know what the reasons given are, but it's just not something I understand given the lack of evidence to support their fears. Like thunderstorms. I don't get why some people, especially adults, are afraid of them. They don't really do anything or hurt us. I've heard reasons, but it's never been (in real life that I've met) having been struck by lightning.
I don't understand fears of flying either. Complaints of discomfort and mistreatment from TSA, yes, that does happen and is a thing. But flying itself, especially on commercial lines where they have Uncle Sam watching over their backs, are very rarely disastrous, hardly ever end in a crash, and go years without a single death. But why people are so afraid I just don't get it. Cars and other similar motor vehicles are what should scare them (especially other drivers).
Flying....one can imagine all the things that can possibly
go wrong. And having worked on plane design, I can
imagine a great many things.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Flying....one can imagine all the things that can possibly
go wrong. And having worked on plane design, I can
imagine a great many things.
Statistically, what are the real odds of a disaster actually happening?
People get in a car and think nothing of it. But they need a xanax to get in a plane.
I do not get or understand this.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
Actually, that's one fear that I do have -- I have always been afraid of flying. White knuckles all the way!

However, and here's the punch-line, I have very often flown on business because I've been required to, and I have very often flown to holiday destinations because I wanted to be there.

The trick? There is none -- I just did my best to master my fear. It was always there, but I was in control.
I understand this just as well I do my social anxieties running rampant lately. I know "why" it's happening, because I've had many months of people staying away and now they aren't, but I don't get it. It's happening, but I see no real reason for it to be happening.
 

Unveiled Artist

Veteran Member
There is a social responsibility so this thing gets under control and to minimize the overall risk we all face of this virus mutating and being able to bypass the vaccines (as the mutations that have already been produced have proven more contagious and deadly than the original).

To me you're broad stroking the whole world population as if taking the vaccine "in and of itself" will make COVID (and if that, any lung disease) just disappear once everyone is vaccinated.

How to say. It's like telling someone way on the other side of the world who lives in a ten housed village to take the vaccine because they have the same chance of spreading the disease as someone in New York where populations are heavier than 100 people if that.

Its not a social responsibility if you're coerced, threatened, and pushed (and so forth) to take the vaccine... it's hypocritical, actually. You (people) say "take this vaccine or you're an idiot" then on the other hand, "but we are taking it to save lives."

There's got to be a better way than convincing people by insulting them, no?

And I'm not talking about beliefs. I am talking about facts. 2+2 will always equal 4. This doesn't change. And when it comes to health, many things are not beliefs. Such as, masks have been so rigorously studied over the past year that we do know they work to curve the spread of Covid-19. Because of anti-vaxxers vaccines have been so extensively studied we know they are very safe just about everyone save for those allergic or other rare conditions that make it so someone can't be vaccinated. In that case, this person's health, well being, and life depends on others to be vaccinated and not carrying diseases this person cannot be vaccinated for. There are those who are immunocompromised. They too depend on us being vaccinated and not carrying diseases they can easily catch.

Shadow Wolf. No one is arguing about facts.

The reason people make decisions about their health and well-being is based on the facts and knowledge they gather from their doctors, experts, and their own personal views of what's right for them and their loved ones.

Facts aren't magical. It's not like someone saying "oh... 500,000 people died. The vaccine has min side affects. Everyone is happy" so I Should take the vaccine. There "should" be more to it than just that. Also. There's a website I posted months ago that talked about why people wear masks (or take the vaccine in this case). One of which was social responsibility. There were many other reasons besides that why people take vaccines, wear masks, and all of that.

It's all individual and most likely cultural differences. Of course, based on personal experiences especially if loved ones had COVID and things of that nature.

So, it's not good to generalize the whole population with shoulds.

And then there are more consequences yet. Like for those working in the health field. Everyone going on about "me" and making excuses and this and that and downplaying the science and taking dumb risks have plunged thousands of healthcare workers into a never ending and inescapable nightmare where many have been forced to make decisions they should never have been put into the position to even have to consider in the first place. Critical care is something that should have remained in their ethics discussions in school, but people who want to doubt, deny, complain, and cry, and go on about "me, me, me, me" have brought a terrible reality to healthcare workers who were forced to decide who lives and who dies.

Even some nurses were hesitant about taking the vaccine (I posted in its own post on this thread).

Fortunately, not all people who don't take the vaccine are me-me-me people. Like you, they make sound decisions and assumingly, like you, they wouldn't want to be disrespected for it by calling them (or calling you) ant/pro vaxxer or whatever nonsense words they keep coming up with to degrade people.

This is what people who won't wear a mask are doing. This is the world they are creating. Along with those who doubt and deny the science. Along with those who won't get vaccinated.

Not wearing masks and not taking the vaccine does not mean one is denying or rejecting science.... no more than not taking medication for a head ache means headache medication is bad or doesn't help people.

Your association between antimaskers=uneducated just doesn't hold up unless you generalize the whole population just because they "say" their don't like masks (or not getting vaccinated).
 
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Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Statistically, what are the real odds of a disaster actually happening?
People get in a car and think nothing of it. But they need a xanax to get in a plane.
I do not get or understand this.
The odds are quite low.
But fear is not a rational thing, even
though rational thought can influence it.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The odds are quite low.
But fear is not a rational thing, even
though rational thought can influence it.
To me, the odds being quite low should settle it, completely and overall.
Granted, I lost some pretty good odds in my favor yesterday in a short-stack tournament, but that's what long term statistics and trends are for, assuring me I did make the right decision and there wasn't much else I could have or would have done different. Sometimes **** happens, and 87% probability of winning can sometimes drop to 0% in just a second.
But the topic at hand involves covid vaccines. Which are up to 95% effective at preventing covid 19 while significantly reducing the chances of the infection becoming severe, and there is less than 1% chance of a side effect from the vaccine. With covid, on the other hand, 15% of US cases have resulted in a hospital admission, and it has roughly about a 10% fatality rate (heavily varying depending on various factors).
And when the stakes are your very life and health, I do not understand this reluctance and hesitation as the facts/odds are so heavily in favor of being vaccinated.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
To me, the odds being quite low should settle it, completely and overall.
Granted, I lost some pretty good odds in my favor yesterday in a short-stack tournament, but that's what long term statistics and trends are for, assuring me I did make the right decision and there wasn't much else I could have or would have done different. Sometimes **** happens, and 87% probability of winning can sometimes drop to 0% in just a second.
But the topic at hand involves covid vaccines. Which are up to 95% effective at preventing covid 19 while significantly reducing the chances of the infection becoming severe, and there is less than 1% chance of a side effect from the vaccine. With covid, on the other hand, 15% of US cases have resulted in a hospital admission, and it has roughly about a 10% fatality rate (heavily varying depending on various factors).
And when the stakes are your very life and health, I do not understand this reluctance and hesitation as the facts/odds are so heavily in favor of being vaccinated.
Humans....their brains are only rational on occasion.
Do you claim to have no phobias whatsoever?
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Therapists have chastised me for referring to my own as "silly," "having no real reason to feel that way," and "absurd."
They might be right.
But nonetheless, people still have their phobias &
dysfunctional fears. Humans are full of absurdities.
I fear heights. It's not a debilitating problem, but I
feel the angst when climbing ladders.
I'm claustrophobic. It's not severe, but you won't
find me spelunking.
These are not rational feelings. But they're real.
 

Shadow Wolf

Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
They might be right.
But nonetheless, people still have their phobias &
dysfunctional fears. Humans are full of absurdities.
I fear heights. It's not a debilitating problem, but I
feel the angst when climbing ladders.
I'm claustrophobic. It's not severe, but you won't
find me spelunking.
These are not rational feelings. But they're real.
They are real. I don't doubt that. It's that they exist when it is entirely illogical. That is what I don't get.
 

Evangelicalhumanist

"Truth" isn't a thing...
Premium Member
They are real. I don't doubt that. It's that they exist when it is entirely illogical. That is what I don't get.
Well, as Freud pointed out, we are not always under the control of that part of our brain that does logic. Our deeper selves have a way of making themselves known...
 

Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
I'm finding it somewhat amazing that President Biden and endless numbers of others are begging and pleading with Americans to get vaccinated against COVID-19, and yet it appears that some 30% of Americans are still holding back.

There used to be a time when the nation was in danger, people pulled together. Nations sent the young men and women off to war at immensely greater risk, and many of them lost lives and limbs -- and we honour them every Veterans Day (or Rembrance Day in other nations), but nearly a third of Americans won't take a one-in-several-million (and therefore TINY) risk in order to help the nation reach "herd immunity" and get past this virus.

What is it that makes so many people so very afraid as to behave this selfishly, in spite of the immense amount of knowledge about how small the risk really is?
Bad reactions and side effects and yep I'm not taking it.
 
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