Vaiṣṇava without Sampradāya

[mangalavara]

Namaste, everyone. Is it possible to be a Vaiṣṇava without a sampradāya? Are there Vaiṣṇavas in India, Nepal, etc. who do not belong to one? Can one be an authentic Vaiṣṇava without even subscribing to one of the philosophies of the Ācāryas such as Sri Rāmānujā or Sri Vallabha?

These questions have been on my mind recently, and I would appreciate some replies by those who know.

Thank you so much.

 

[ameyAtmA]

Namaste

Really it is between you and VishNu, and you can just innocently adore VishNu
however, these sampradAy show you how to be a VaishNav. What should a VaishNav be like?
How to approach BhagavAn? How should one prepare and aspire to be a VaishNav etc.
The sampraday also teach about VishNu tattva, jeeva tattva, philosophy, darshan, Guru, ettiquette , signs of a BhAgvat,
BhagavAn's leelA - Ramayan, Bhagvat puran,
Commentary on BhAgvat shlokas and Geeta shlokas by the acharyas -- 4 quadrants for the 4 VaishNav acharya
ideal devotee examples of the past,
association of VaishNavs - sAdhu sanga, collective or community practice etc. Some people find it beneficial for their family - to give their children a VaishNav community...

*EDIT* The sAmpradAy provides a platform and opportunity for organized service (seva)

You can only benefit from learning about them.
These are all guidelines and they are for your spiritual progress, that is all.
Ultimately it is for you,
You do not have to force-fit in a sampraday.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

I thought Reptilians took part in Satanic rituals, as told by Arizona Wilder in her interview with David Icke.

Vaisnava Reptilian? ... Now that's a first.

 

[mangalavara]

I thought Reptilians took part in Satanic rituals, as told by Arizona Wilder in her interview with David Icke.

Vaisnava Reptilian? ... Now that's a first.

 

[mangalavara]

Really it is between you and VishNu, and you can just innocently adore VishNu

This is good to know, thank you.

however, these sampradAy show you how to be a VaishNav. What should a VaishNav be like?

So far, I have been following the guidelines for how to be a Vaiṣṇava in the Padma Purāṇa. Something I have learned from @Vinayaka, and also from you, is that these things are not rigid rules but guidelines, and this makes sense. It makes sense because one of the characteristics of Vaiṣṇavas according to the aforementioned scripture is that they build temples. Obviously, not all of us have the time and resources to build temples. Thus, it is evidently a guideline.

You can only benefit from learning about them.
These are all guidelines and they are for your spiritual progress, that is all.
Ultimately it is for you,
You do not have to force-fit in a sampraday.

This is certainly different from joining, for example, the form of Twelver Shia Islam predominant in Iran and avoiding taking guidance from any other stream of Islam. Whereas a person would join Twelver Shia Islam in order to be dogmatically correct, a person could look to one or more Vaiṣṇava sampradāyas for guidance on one's spiritual journey? One might even be initiated into a sampradāya if one feels that it would be useful?

Thank you so much for your helpful reply, ameyAtmA.

Namaste.

 

[ameyAtmA]

a person could look to one or more Vaiṣṇava sampradāyas for guidance on one's spiritual journey? One might even be initiated into a sampradāya if one feels that it would be useful?

Thank you so much for your helpful reply, ameyAtmA.

Namaste.

You are welcome.

Yes, exactly.
For those who are not much aware of this, a sAmpradAy is a chain of Guru-disciple succession that becomes an N-ary tree , and they can be traced back to the first Guru of the sAmpradAya.
So this is how it becomes a community and tradition - paramparA.
It is called the Guru-paramparA.

So one finds their Guru in an established paramparA - they know they are safe and belong to that succession - that is also the idea.

The 4 well-known and established VaishNav sAmpradAya are
1. Shri -- Ramanuja brought it to the masses but his Guru , and before says this was initiated by Shri (Lakshmi) Herself. VishishTha-advaita - Qualified Oneness, archana and AchAr (very good cheat sheet on AchAr), Lakshmi-NArAyaNa

2. Rudra -- modern era's VallabhAchArya's pushTi marg - ShuddhAdvaita was initiated by Rudra.
Shri KRshNah: sharaNaM mama

3. HaMsa -- NimbarkAchArya's grand Guru started it and it was initiated by VishNu avatAr HaMsa - swan. dvaitAdvaita -
Radhe KRshNa RAdhe KRshNa KRshNa KRshNa Radhe Radhe |
Radhe Shyam Radhe ShyAmA ShyAm ShyAmA Radhe Radhe ||

4. BramhA -- MadhvAchArya's dvaita philosophy, "Hari sarvottama VAyu jeevottama" paramparA was initiated by BramhA. UDupi Math and the 8 maTha were established by Madhva acharya.

-- GauDiya VaishNav sampradAy of Shri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu (known as avatAr of KRshNa for naam sankirtan) considers themselves a wing or offshoot of this as BramhA-Madhva-GauDiya sAmpradAya -- achintya bhedAbheda -
Hare KRshNa Hare KRshNa KRshNa KRshNa Hare Hare |
Hare RAma Hare RAma RAma RAma Hare Hare ||

--
Ramanandi sAmpradAya became a separate sAmpradAya because Saint Ramananda - an exceptional disciple of Ramanujacharya (Shesha nag) was from Allahabad UP , and his paramparA spread there in the North. They worship Shri RAma as the Supreme.
Kabir and Guru Nanak were close associates of Ramananda - I think Kabir was Ramananda's disciple - giving rise to the eclectic dohas.

--
The VArkari SAmpradAya -- is the devotees of Shri Vitthal -- DwarakAdheesh KRshNa come back to Pandharpur (it is a long story), and followers of the great saints DnyAneshwar, NAmdev, Tukaram et al.
All VArkari saints of Maharashtra. VAri = holy walk from Dehu/ALandi to Pandharpur to meet Vitthal.
The VArkaris walk from Saint Tukaram's Dehu or Saint DnyAneshwar's ALandi to Pandharpur every year on AshAdhi Ekadashi (and some on Kartiki Ekadashi also) -- except in 2020-2021 due to COVID-19.

Mantra - || RAma KRshNa Hari || ,
special bhajans to Vitthal called Abhanga (bhanga = break. a-bhanga = non-stop kirtan without break - nAmasmaraNa , calling Vitthal non-stop Vitthala Vitthala Vitthala Vitthala Vitthala ...)
--
There are some like the Shankara Guru in Aassam - naam and bhajan , KRshNa worship, a flavor of advaita.

--
Realized saint Shrimati Tai's Badlapur disciple paramparA - a very sweet group worshiping Krishna taking shelter of Navadurga - their Guru is a form of Navadurga.
Their mantra is Om Namo Bhagavate VAsudevAya

 

[ameyAtmA]

It makes sense because one of the characteristics of Vaiṣṇavas according to the aforementioned scripture is that they build temples. Obviously, not all of us have the time and resources to build temples. Thus, it is evidently a guideline.

It is a guideline, in this case it is for the group not the individual. What this means is VaishNavas worship VishNu in the Temple. i.e. archanA, vandana, bhajan - kirtan, ... => the way to Atmanivedana
(9-fold bhakti - navadha bhakti)

 

[shivsomashekhar]

Namaste, everyone. Is it possible to be a Vaiṣṇava without a sampradāya? Are there Vaiṣṇavas in India, Nepal, etc. who do not belong to one? Can one be an authentic Vaiṣṇava without even subscribing to one of the philosophies of the Ācāryas such as Sri Rāmānujā or Sri Vallabha?

These questions have been on my mind recently, and I would appreciate some replies by those who know.

Thank you so much.

This is a common misconception about Hinduism in the West. In real world Hinduism (a billion people), the number of people who belong to Sampradayas is a very small number. Most people would not even be familiar with the term Sampradaya.

Vaishnava literally means one who worships Vishnu. They may generally wear the Urdhva Pundra, but that is mostly just borrowed from local priests.

 

[The Crimson Universe]

I've read somewhere that in the vedic period Vishnu was not the main deity of worship. It was Indra, Mitra and other deities. Later in the puranic times Vishnu and Shiva rose to prominence. What made the people shift from the vedic to the puranic Gods? Is it because people realized that they were worshipping inferior gods before?

 

[Vinayaka]

Namaste, everyone. Is it possible to be a Vaiṣṇava without a sampradāya? Are there Vaiṣṇavas in India, Nepal, etc. who do not belong to one? Can one be an authentic Vaiṣṇava without even subscribing to one of the philosophies of the Ācāryas such as Sri Rāmānujā or Sri Vallabha?

These questions have been on my mind recently, and I would appreciate some replies by those who know.

Thank you so much.

Tons of people, probably the majority, don't know what sampradaya they belong to, so sure. Many of those, though, would belong to one, but they don't know which.

 

[shivsomashekhar]

I've read somewhere that in the vedic period Vishnu was not the main deity of worship. It was Indra, Mitra and other deities. Later in the puranic times Vishnu and Shiva rose to prominence. What made the people shift from the vedic to the puranic Gods? Is it because people realized that they were worshipping inferior gods before?

Vishnu is a Vedic God.

The original Rig-Vedic Brahmins who worshipped Indra, Mitra, etc were probably not aware of indigenous Indian gods like Shiva, Ganesha, Muruga, Durga and others. As they mingled with the local population, beliefs merged resulting in certain Gods becoming more prominent.

Today you will find Hindus worshipping Sai Baba, etc. They would disagree that Rama/Krishna are inferior....they worship Sai Baba because they believe he is more likely to answer prayers.

 

[mangalavara]

New I've read somewhere that in the vedic period Vishnu was not the main deity of worship. It was Indra, Mitra and other deities.

This, I believe, has to do with the purpose of Vedic worship. If you were to read just a few hymns from the first layer of the Veda, you will notice all the supplications for boons, wealth, strength, horses, etc. Whereas Indra, Varuṇa, Āryaman, etc. are worshipped in order to obtain such things, Viṣṇu is mostly worshipped because he is the Supreme Self and the means of liberation from the cycle of transmigration. Although there are several hymns to him in the first layer of the Veda, there are much, much more to the devas due to the purpose of Vedic worship. This is my educated opinion, of course.

 

[Viswa]

I've read somewhere that in the vedic period Vishnu was not the main deity of worship. It was Indra, Mitra and other deities. Later in the puranic times Vishnu and Shiva rose to prominence. What made the people shift from the vedic to the puranic Gods? Is it because people realized that they were worshipping inferior gods before?

Hi Greg. Why you are always asking very deep questions? Are you cursed as like me?

This questions I was also asking few months before, and the questions are answered - and I will express it here.

When I started to study Srimad Bhagavatham, these deep questions about Gods,etc., revealed some insight.

All the Gods are sons of Aditi and Kashyap. Among them, Indra was first. Even, Vishnu and Rudra are born after Indra,Varuna,etc.,

On those times, Vishnu and Rudra are normal demi-gods like Indra,etc., - were Vishnu takes care of Maintanence and Rudra takes care of duty of destruction.

So, for Karmic desires, in all 4 classes, Indra and other gods are prayed for their desires shall be fulfilled. And so, Vishnu and Rudra gods are neglected - as they are not gods who fulfil Karmic desires, but maintains and destructs things.

Then came Vyasa. He created a strong belief on those two and Sakthi and etc., by getting blessings from them and wrote Puranas.

Why these Puranas are made is to, understand the Truth - to stop desiring for Karmic things.

To stop desire, devotion is the easiest way. He got blessings from those Gods like Vishnu and Rudra and Goddess Durga/Sakthi, etc., and created stories method and give the moral in end/middle of stories, like how to pray or be devoted to them and how to live desirelessly, etc.,. If one be totally devoted them, then easily saalokya,etc., moksha can be achieved. They are all said in different upanishads how to pray/devoted to them by manthras (like Om Soum Saravana Bhava Sreem Hreem Kleem Kloum Soum Namaha), and Vyasa inserted them inbetween or end of stories, for deep devotion. Also, Mahabharatham is a great moral story to understand the working of world and people and etc.,

The Puranas make a strong belief about their devoted god, so that even more strong devotion happens by leaving the karmic desires aside.

In the father of Tamil Siddha - Agastya song, it is called as "Vyasa's Play". Atleast in devotion to god, they might attain Moksha, if one is not interested to know things/Sankhya.

But, the gods like Vishnu/Rudra, are born same like Indra,etc., but free from all karmas and do Karma for Karma sake. Do the duty for duty's sake without any desire on good/bad results. Indra and some other gods - if become very ahankar, in fear of Rudra and his pisachas and demons, reach Brahma and Vishnu for help to make this set right. Indra and other gods made their higher god as "Vishnu", whereas demons and others made their higher god as "Rudra" - according to their nature of Sattvic,Rajasic and Tamasic.

If one is cursed to know things, like Buddha/Sages/etc., then those all Puranas and Vedas are just a creation out of "belief" and make things right by creating a procedure for Karmic desires, and those "beliefs" are bought into Life. Whatever one beliefs strongly and true to their heart, comes into life, but it's permanence is the thing questionable. there is no need of putting those vedas away - like Buddha did, but to see it's Karmic limitations and stop those desires inside us, and do those if someone needs it, for duty's sake, like God Vishnu does. Compassion/ Divine Love means to not give the right thing giver sees, but to give things whatever the seeker seeks.

The devotion/Bhakti, is all a creation (after the start of Kali Yuga - as said in Puranas), by giving the power to those 'beliefs' and bought into life. Before that, these Puranas were not there, and just "Karmic Vedas and Upanishads". But those beliefs are so strong, one cannot pierce it and kill those away, as it is blessed by those gods and bought into life by Veda Vyasa.

And, to the knowledge, those gods from Indra to end, even Kashyap and Aditi and Diti and all sages and their wifes, including the Sanat kumaras - are all born out of "beliefs/wants/thoughts". They are not real, but came to be appear real, like us, out of "thoughts" in the primordial Egg/seed.