Vatican creates office to "fight secularization"

[Storm]

Christine, Im not sure that anyone attacks normal people who happen to be Christians, I think the main issue is that mega Churches still try to preach their dogma in the 21 century.

Under secularism, they have every right to preach. They have no right to legislate.

 

[ChristineES]

Quote:
Originally Posted by Caladan
Christine, Im not sure that anyone attacks normal people who happen to be Christians, I think the main issue is that mega Churches still try to preach their dogma in the 21 century.
Under secularism, they have every right to preach. They have no right to legislate.

I agree, and no one is obligated to listen to it if they don't want to. That is the beauty of the message. If you force someone to follow your faith, then it is not a true faith for that person, nor can it be.

 

[Caladan]

Under secularism, they have every right to preach. They have no right to legislate.

They may have the right to preach, and secular and atheists may take issue with it.

 

[ChristineES]

I just don't see a problem with what we call preaching. If an evangelist, like Billy Graham, preaches at a sport's arena or whatever, then no one is obligated to attend unless they want to. There are Churches all over the place and no one is forced to go (unless they are children and forced by their parents, but that is another issue). If preaching is shown on TV, no one is forced to watch that show.

 

[Smoke]

I just don't see a problem with what we call preaching. If an evangelist, like Billy Graham, preaches at a sport's arena or whatever, then no one is obligated to attend unless they want to. There are Churches all over the place and no one is forced to go (unless they are children and forced by their parents, but that is another issue). If preaching is shown on TV, no one is forced to watch that show.

Political lobbyists have to register, though, and so do agents of a foreign state. We ought to enforce the law with regard to the Vatican and its agents.

 

[Caladan]

I just don't see a problem with what we call preaching. If an evangelist, like Billy Graham, preaches at a sport's arena or whatever, then no one is obligated to attend unless they want to. There are Churches all over the place and no one is forced to go (unless they are children and forced by their parents, but that is another issue). If preaching is shown on TV, no one is forced to watch that show.

The main post talks about evangalizing and fighting secularism. as an Atheist, I take issue with this.

 

[Storm]

They may have the right to preach, and secular and atheists may take issue with it.

Absolutely.

The main post talks about evangalizing and fighting secularism. as an Atheist, I take issue with this.

As a person of faith, so do I.

I posted my remark because I thought it confused the issue of explaining secularism, not because I thought you had no right to disapprove of the Pope's actions.

 

[LoTrobador]

The Pope's homily can be read here.

 

[Mister Emu]

I think there is a difference between a secular government and a secular society...

 

[Storm]

I think there is a difference between a secular government and a secular society...

And that would be...?

 

[Mister Emu]

And that would be...?

Government is government, society is the people...

For instance, I am quite happy I live in a government where all religions are ostensibly given equality under the law. I am not nearly so that I live in a society that indications show is leaving Christianity at an increasing rate.

 

[Vasilisa Jade]

I'm gonna pack my bags and embark on a religious crusade to screw the pope in the rear.

Stay tuned for a youtube link. )(

 

[yourhopeboundheart]

For instance, I am quite happy I live in a government where all religions are ostensibly given equality under the law. I am not nearly so that I live in a society that indications show is leaving Christianity at an increasing rate.

sounds like you're pleased that everyone has a chance to express their spirituality, so long as they describe their spirituality within a category you're a part of.

but the pope has the right to "fight secularism". he has every reason to be nervous about it, the paycheck with continue to thin and the grip on control will loosen if secular thinking keeps growing. farmers fight pests too. it's just too late to actually do anything about secularism, people love it.

 

[Mister Emu]

sounds like you're pleased that everyone has a chance to express their spirituality, so long as they describe their spirituality within a category you're a part of.

Indeed...

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Evidently the pope doesn't realise that Secularism is far more Catholic friendly than the majority of theocracies out there. Then again I guess he's just dreaming of bringing back the dark ages.

I was thinking something similar.

I wonder if the Pope will speak out against secularism on his upcoming trip to the United Kingdom, a country where Catholics are still barred by law from being the head of state and where another competing church still at least nominally holds a degree of political power. Does he really want more of that?

The Vatican is an independent state that is both theocratic and a dictatorship. I wonder why people forget that.

Because it functions more as a church than a country, maybe? Vatican City is the government arm of a religion; the Catholic Church isn't the religious arm of a state.

Because it is some kind of sacred cow to many. I guess politicians in Europe still remember with awe the days in which the Church's agenda moved whole states.

... while other politicians remember the days when Catholics could be freely marginalized and persecuted. For an organization that places so much stock in tradition, the Catholic Church apparently has a short memory.

Political lobbyists have to register, though, and so do agents of a foreign state. We ought to enforce the law with regard to the Vatican and its agents.

Good point. The Vatican has tried to play the "diplomatic immunity" card in the past to try to prevent priests and bishops from being arrested or tried for crimes. That sword cuts both ways.

 

[mystic shaman christ]

sounds like you're pleased that everyone has a chance to express their spirituality, so long as they describe their spirituality within a category you're a part of.

but the pope has the right to "fight secularism". he has every reason to be nervous about it, the paycheck with continue to thin and the grip on control will loosen if secular thinking keeps growing. farmers fight pests too. it's just too late to actually do anything about secularism, people love it.

I do not think people love secularism at all. I think it is being drummed into them that if they do not follow what they are being grown up on in school,... then they are being thought of as stupid. And I think that being thought of as stupid and being ridiculed is somethign people try to avoid. This happens when they are young and their opinions are still forming. By the time they get out of school, then they simply follow what they believe the "herd" is doing and believing in.

I also think that religion itself has failed the society miserably and not taught what truth is and the real power of it all. I think this is what is at the center of much of the over balance of secularism and also atheism.

And do not think I am not trying to do my part to remedy this core problem,... because I am. I make podcasts,... but this is truly the core of what is behind this in my opinion.

 

[Storm]

I do not think people love secularism at all.

With all due respect, wrong.

I adore secularism. Religious neutrality is vital to a healthy society, and one of the best, noblest governmental principles mankind has come up with.

And I bet, deep down, you appreciate having freedom of conscience, too. Or do you really want some bureaucrat telling you how to pray?

 

[Revoltingest]

I wonder if the Pope has considered that people who abandon secularism might embrace some religion & code which is at odds with Catholicism?
They could even implement anti-Catholic laws.

 

[Comicaze247]

Pope to create new office to fight secularization - Yahoo! News

 

[AxisMundi]

I do not think people love secularism at all. I think it is being drummed into them that if they do not follow what they are being grown up on in school,... then they are being thought of as stupid. And I think that being thought of as stupid and being ridiculed is somethign people try to avoid. This happens when they are young and their opinions are still forming. By the time they get out of school, then they simply follow what they believe the "herd" is doing and believing in.

No, more people are realizing that their religion can only be protected under a secular government, a concept built into this Nation that has been worn away under theopolitical pressures over the years.

BTW, being taught to think critically does not in any manner equate to the unthinking indoctrination that has been ongoing for some 2 thousand years.

I also think that religion itself has failed the society miserably and not taught what truth is and the real power of it all. I think this is what is at the center of much of the over balance of secularism and also atheism.

Religion fails any society in which that religion takes precedence. We can see that from the ancient Aztecs to medieval Europe.

As for "overbalancing", yes, I would agree that a secular society tends to urge more Atheists, simply due to the lack of fear mongering and total indoctrination of the youth from the cradle forward. This is why religion despises secularism, despite the simple fact that a secular government protects individual religious rights and freedoms.

What you see today that you percieve as "overbalancing secularism" is simply the fight to put religion back into the private sector, where it can be properly protected, and the resulting wailing and gnashing of teeth as religion looses political power it has no right to wield.