Vegetarianism

[akshar]

You can't killl a animal for godssakes, how are you going to manage to eat one, the book of manu does nor say that.

 

[akshar]

Personally, what champion has wrote on hinduism is nothing but thoughts with numbers, that has never been a hindu belief. We ARE not allowed to kill anything with A SOUL not life, life is nothing without a soul. The body is a temple. Meat is a savage and disgusting trait to pick up.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

How can plants cry? They do not have mouths. Of course everything vibrates at a certain frequency. Om can be heard in the ocean waves. Perhaps the sound emanating from the plants is a change in frequency when the atoms and molecules change within the plant causing the entire plant to adapt to its new situation. Our bodies are constantly changing also. Billions of cells are dying and billions are being reborn. Our bodies are not the same bodies we had ten years ago. Please Champion, Hinduism does not promote meat eating. There are two types of texts in Hinduism. Shruti and Smriti. Remember you quoted from Smriti. Smriti texts are commentaries adapted from the Shruti texts by people throughout time. Shruti texts are revealed knowledge from God to the Rishis. One of the pillars of Hinduism is the Bhagvad Gita. The Gita describes four main sins – MEAT EATING, addiction – alcohol or otherwise, gambling and illicit sex. The Gita states that a true devotee sees God equally in all living creatures. Hinduism also advocates karma which states that when we cause other creatures to suffer, we must also suffer, in this life or the next. Ahimsa or non-violence is our highest duty as Hindus. This does not mean that we should not retaliate in self defense. Shri Ram retaliated against Ravan when Mother Sita was kidnapped. Hinduism states that we are connected to God, we are Jeeva Atman or individual soul, God is Param Atman or Super Soul. God is therefore always within us. The body is the first temple of God. We cannot carry meat into a mandir similarly we should not bring meat into the body. Hindus must also offer their food to God before they eat. Lord Krishna says to offer unto him a fruit, a flower, a leaf, water or our undying devotion.

Plants don't have to have mouths to cry. The study that was conducted in the U.S (that Dr.Naik braught up) showed that Plants do cry. And when the researcher's machine was built (on a certain frequency where he could here plants), he stopped giving them water, and heard them cry. I'm not really sure what it sounded like, or how, but they did. And this has become a universal fact. That plants have life, they have feeling, they can cry and be happy (how exactly, i don't know. I can research it if you'd like).

Secondly. I'm very sorry, but i have NEVER read any of the Hindu scriptures. I only posted Dr.Naik's article because it was interesting, and i wanted to see how Hindu's on the forum reacted to it. Plus, it seems other Hindu's on the forum say it is ok for Hindu's to eat meat, and that old Hindu's did it. But none the less, that does not excuse my ignorance when it comes to Hindu scripture. Please excuse my ignorace.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

You can't killl a animal for godssakes, how are you going to manage to eat one, the book of manu does nor say that.Personally, what champion has wrote on hinduism is nothing but thoughts with numbers, that has never been a hindu belief. We ARE not allowed to kill anything with A SOUL not life, life is nothing without a soul. The body is a temple. Meat is a savage and disgusting trait to pick up.

Weak argument. If you can't kill an animal in the name of God, thats YOUR problem, not mine. Like i said in my other post, i have no idea about what the Hindu scripture says or does not say. I only posted Dr.Naik's article because i thought it was interesting, it served the topic at hand "vegetarianism" and i wanted to to see how Hindu's reacted to it. I know that does'nt excuse my ignorance on Hindu scripture, but i NEVER said anything about Hindu scripture, the article did. If you have a problem with the article, take it up with Dr.Naik, not me.

I did'nt write anything about Hindu belief, again Dr. Naik did. I only posted the article. Plus, i've also seen an open Question/ Answer session between Hindus in India, and Dr.Naik. And this topic was braught up. During the discussion, no Hindu's knew how to reply to Dr.Naik's comments. So that quite sums it up for me. Beside's saying "all champion has on hinduism (like i said, i wrote nothing) is nothing but thoughts and numbers" why don't you try replying to the article, besides making comments that do nothing at all to further your cause? Again, weak argument.

YOU are not to kill anything with a soul/life. Not me. In Islam, whatever God Almights has permitted is fine, whatever he has'nt is not. And thats our way of life. Think badly of it as you like. As for eating meat being savage and disgusting. Well, again, thats your problem. If we condsider it actually, you eating plants is just as disgusting, because you're killing something that has life and feeling. Just because your scriptures allow you to eat plants, and not meat gives you NO right whatsoever to call other ways of life savage and disgusting. Scientists, and nutritional experts have already disproven "vegetarianism", and have said that its not the best thing for humans. Eating meat IS benefical for humans (refer to Dr. Naiks article). Also, your comments are already being disproven by Muslims and non-muslims in the thread "Halal is'nt better for the animal".

PEACE

 

[akshar]

It's my opinion, i think halal isnt better for the animal not my problem , no offence but i really dont care what you think.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

It's my opinion, i think halal isnt better for the animal not my problem , no offence but i really dont care what you think.

Yes, this is what we cool poor debating. If you can't back up your opinion, then don't bother posting it. It only makes you look unintelligent.

 

[Booko]

It's my opinion, i think halal isnt better for the animal not my problem , no offence but i really dont care what you think.

Yeah we got that.

Oh btw, opinions are like noses. Everyone has them.

: hamster :

 

[Hema]

I'm very sorry, but i have NEVER read any of the Hindu scriptures. I only posted Dr.Naik's article because it was interesting, and i wanted to see how Hindu's on the forum reacted to it. Plus, it seems other Hindu's on the forum say it is ok for Hindu's to eat meat, and that old Hindu's did it. But none the less, that does not excuse my ignorance when it comes to Hindu scripture. Please excuse my ignorace.

You are not ignorant. You did not know and were seeking clarification. I also do not know many things about Hinduism. Hinduism is so vast. Yes, many Hindus eat meat but that does not make it right. Hindu scriptures describe it as a sin and as a generator of negative karma (see my earlier reference to Bhagvad Gita). Yes plants do have life but they do not feel pain like animals do. Non-vegetarian food cannot be offered to God and as Hindus we must offer food to God before it is eaten. If other Hindus on the forum say it’s ok to eat meat ask them about the reference in Bhagvad Gita. Do not give too much heed if they quote from a Smriti text. Remember I told you that Shruti texts are the authoritative texts in Hinduism and the Bhagvad Gita is one of the pillars of Hinduism. I think many Hindus don’t know about the reference in the Gita. Just because something is widely practiced does not make it correct. Lots of people have extra-marital affairs and that does not make it correct.

 

[lilithu]

If other Hindus on the forum say it’s ok to eat meat ask them about the reference in Bhagvad Gita. Do not give too much heed if they quote from a Smriti text. Remember I told you that Shruti texts are the authoritative texts in Hinduism and the Bhagvad Gita is one of the pillars of Hinduism. I think many Hindus don’t know about the reference in the Gita.

Without questioning whether vegetarianism is the favored diet in Hinduism (I believe it is), I think that amongst those of you who self-identify as Hindu, there is a disagreement over the significance of the Gita. I know Hindus who say the opposite of what you wrote, that the Gita is Smriti, not Shruti. Seyorni has said this on RF but I know Hindus in my non-virtual life who have said the same thing.

Either way, there are so many Hindu scriptures beyond the Gita, and the Gita itself is just a small part of a much larger epic (the Mahabharata - probably the greatest story ever told, imo), that it seems strange to focus so much on this one text.

 

[Hema]

Without questioning whether vegetarianism is the favored diet in Hinduism (I believe it is), I think that amongst those of you who self-identify as Hindu, there is a disagreement over the significance of the Gita. I know Hindus who say the opposite of what you wrote, that the Gita is Smriti, not Shruti. Seyorni has said this on RF but I know Hindus in my non-virtual life who have said the same thing.

It cannot be Smriti because it is the life story of one of our highest incarnations of God - Shri Krishna. Even if you don't want to consider the Gita, the Vedas are the oldest books of the Hindus and they also advocate vegetarianism. Also in the Ramayan, there is a verse and pardon me if the spelling is wrong, "Seeya Ram Mei Saba Jaga Jaani Karahoo Pranam Jori Jug Pani." It means, "Recognizing that Seeta and Ram (two manifestations of God) are present in all creation, I bow to them and offer obesciences." This surprises me what you are saying, no Hindu Pundit (similar to a priest) that I know advocates meat-eating.

 

[AbuQuteiba]

You are not ignorant. You did not know and were seeking clarification. I also do not know many things about Hinduism. Hinduism is so vast. Yes, many Hindus eat meat but that does not make it right. Hindu scriptures describe it as a sin and as a generator of negative karma (see my earlier reference to Bhagvad Gita). Yes plants do have life but they do not feel pain like animals do. Non-vegetarian food cannot be offered to God and as Hindus we must offer food to God before it is eaten. If other Hindus on the forum say it’s ok to eat meat ask them about the reference in Bhagvad Gita. Do not give too much heed if they quote from a Smriti text. Remember I told you that Shruti texts are the authoritative texts in Hinduism and the Bhagvad Gita is one of the pillars of Hinduism. I think many Hindus don’t know about the reference in the Gita. Just because something is widely practiced does not make it correct. Lots of people have extra-marital affairs and that does not make it correct.

Thank you very much for being so kind. I appreciate it. But if you don't mind i'de like to discuss some of the points you raised.

Yes, many Hindus eat meat but that does not make it right

Yes, you're absolutely right. I agree, that just because certain Hindu's do something, does not make it valid.

Yes plants do have life but they do not feel pain like animals do

But plants DO feel pain. Dr.Naik spoke that a study was conducted in America, where it was concluded that plants do feel pain, thay can even cry and feel happy (refer to the article i posted a while back). So if thats the reason, then i'm sorry, but the reason has failed. I have nothing against Hinduism preaching vegetarianism. My religion Islam, for example, does allow for us to eat meat, but does not allow us to have swine (pig). I'm really not sure why though. So i for one, have no problem with Hinduism preaching vegetarianism, but i do not understand this reason behind it (as in its because plants don't feel pain, because they do.)

Can you please explain the second reason you gave? That you have to offer your food to God before you eat it. How is that done? And why can't you offer non-vegetarian food to God (if its in the scriptures then i totally understad. But could you please explain. Thanks)?

 

[lilithu]

It cannot be Smriti because it is the life story of one of our highest incarnations of God - Shri Krishna. Even if you don't want to consider the Gita, the Vedas are the oldest books of the Hindus and they also advocate vegetarianism. Also in the Ramayan, there is a verse and pardon me if the spelling is wrong, "Seeya Ram Mei Saba Jaga Jaani Karahoo Pranam Jori Jug Pani." It means, "Recognizing that Seeta and Ram (two manifestations of God) are present in all creation, I bow to them and offer obesciences." This surprises me what you are saying, no Hindu Pundit (similar to a priest) that I know advocates meat-eating.

As I said in my previous post, I am not arguing against vegetarianism being the prefered diet in Hinduism. I do believe that it is. I am only talking about whether the Gita is Smriti or [SIZE=-1]Shruti.[/SIZE]

 

[Hema]

But plants DO feel pain. Dr.Naik spoke that a study was conducted in America, where it was concluded that plants do feel pain, thay can even cry and feel happy (refer to the article i posted a while back). So if thats the reason, then i'm sorry, but the reason has failed. I have nothing against Hinduism preaching vegetarianism.

Okay, you are entitled but I just don't believe that they can feel pain because they don't have a brain and a brain is what sends messages of pain throughout the body. However, I do believe that people can send negative vibrarions to a plant such as when someone gives it the "Bad Eye" causing it to wilt etc.

Can you please explain the second reason you gave? That you have to offer your food to God before you eat it. How is that done? And why can't you offer non-vegetarian food to God (if its in the scriptures then i totally understad. But could you please explain. Thanks)?

God is the one who gives us food so it's a way of saying thanks. Basically before you eat you can just say aloud or in your mind something like "Thank you God for this food and please partake of this meal with me." Since our scriptures speak against meat-eating ,to ask God to partake of the food would be going against his rules. So it would be sort of like invoking God while at the same time breaking his rule. Meat is not allowed in a Hindu temple and since our bodies are temples of God, we shouldn't bring meat into the body. This is the Hindu perspective.

Thank you also for respecting my religious beliefs regarding this topic.:yes:

 

[Hema]

I have nothing against Hinduism preaching vegetarianism.

Thank you Champion.

 

[Hema]

As I said in my previous post, I am not arguing against vegetarianism being the prefered diet in Hinduism. I do believe that it is. I am only talking about whether the Gita is Smriti or [SIZE=-1]Shruti.[/SIZE]

Okay ask a Hindu spiritual leader and if you are correct then I will admit I'm wrong. The main thing is that we have acknowledged that vegeterianism is the preferred diet in Hinduism because even if the Gita is Smriti, other texts also advocate vegetarianism. Peace and love....good vibes.:hug:

 

[AbuQuteiba]

God is the one who gives us food so it's a way of saying thanks. Basically before you eat you can just say aloud or in your mind something like "Thank you God for this food and please partake of this meal with me." Since our scriptures speak against meat-eating ,to ask God to partake of the food would be going against his rules. So it would be sort of like invoking God while at the same time breaking his rule. Meat is not allowed in a Hindu temple and since our bodies are temples of God, we shouldn't bring meat into the body. This is the Hindu perspective.

Thank you also for respecting my religious beliefs regarding this topic.:yes:

Okay, you are entitled but I just don't believe that they can feel pain because they don't have a brain and a brain is what sends messages of pain throughout the body. However, I do believe that people can send negative vibrarions to a plant such as when someone gives it the "Bad Eye" causing it to wilt etc.

Hmm. I understand. But, do you believe that plants have life? I've asked other Hindu's on the forum, and they say they DO believe that plants have life, but no soul. Do you agree? If so, whats the proof that plants have life? (what i mean, really, is that as science is the only proof that plants have life, its the only proof that plants can feel pain).

God is the one who gives us food so it's a way of saying thanks. Basically before you eat you can just say aloud or in your mind something like "Thank you God for this food and please partake of this meal with me." Since our scriptures speak against meat-eating ,to ask God to partake of the food would be going against his rules. So it would be sort of like invoking God while at the same time breaking his rule. Meat is not allowed in a Hindu temple and since our bodies are temples of God, we shouldn't bring meat into the body. This is the Hindu perspective.

Wow. Great explanation. Thanks alot Hema.

Thank you also for respecting my religious beliefs regarding this topic.:yes:

You're very welcome. Its the least i can do.

 

[Hema]

Lilithu, you were right! Gita is Smriti. I did some research on the internet. I came across a site which said that the Vedas are the Shruti texts. Regardless of whether the Gita is Smriti, it is one of the pillars of Hinduism and extremely authoritative. The four pillars of Hinduism are the Vedas, the Gita, the Upanishads (which are the cream of the Vedas) and the Brahma Sutras. Of these, the Vedas are highest. I got this quote from Vedas:
"You must not use your God-given body for killing God's creatures, whether they are human, animal or whatever."
(Yajur Veda 12.32.90)
I also got quotes from Manu-samhita:
“By not killing any living being, one becomes fit for salvation.” (Manu-samhita 6.60)
“Meat can never be obtained without injury to living creatures, and injury to sentient beings is detrimental to the attainment of heavenly bliss; let him therefore shun the use of meat. Having well considered the disgusting origin of flesh and the cruelty of fettering and slaying corporeal beings, let him entirely abstain from eating flesh.” (Manu-samhita 5.48-49)
I wonder if this is the same Manu Smriti Champion was talking about? (Not condemning you Champion, I know you just wanted comments about the article you posted).

 

[Hema]

Hmm. I understand. But, do you believe that plants have life? I've asked other Hindu's on the forum, and they say they DO believe that plants have life, but no soul. Do you agree? If so, whats the proof that plants have life? (what i mean, really, is that as science is the only proof that plants have life, its the only proof that plants can feel pain).

Yes plants do have life and they do have souls. All living creatures have souls (according to Hindu texts). Plants have life because they grow and need sunlight, water, air etc to live. We don't really need science to prove that they have life because we can see plants growing over a period of time. Champion I know you want me to believe that plants can feel pain but I just can't. They just don't have a brain capable of analyzing pain signals.

 

[Valjean]

Vegetarianism is a cultural tradition in Hinduism that has become enshrined as a religious precept. The ancient Hindus not only ate meat but engaged in massive sacrifices of horses and cattle.
[SIZE=+0]This is a sort of dark secret of Hinduism, well known to scholars but discreetly kept out of popular discourse. [/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Religion is almost always co-opted by culture. Religion's primary function usually becomes the maintenance of the status quo. Popular religion opposes progress and seeks to maintain traditional values and attitudes.[/SIZE]

[SIZE=+0]That being said. Be aware that the ancients were no more wise or insightful than you are. They were ordinary people. Yes, there was the occasional sage, as there is the occasional sage today.[/SIZE]
[SIZE=+0]Equating authority with antiquity is romantic, but [/SIZE]not reasonable. I'm sorry to say that if you want to argue a particular opinion, scholars will insist you think for yourself and will give no weight to an argument from authority.

 

[Valjean]

Why does the type size change capriciously with no input from me?