Vegetarians and vegans and questions thereon

[Valjean]

Does it say in the OT that adam and eve were vegan?

If you look at the length of our gut you will see that it is not long enough to properly digest vegetable matter, it is far better suited to meat and fruit. In fact it was the greater amount of energy that our early ancestors received from meat that allowed our brains to grow large enough that we can now contemplate whether eating meat is right or wrong.

Speaking as a vegan myself, I have not eaten meat in, ahem.... a long time. I'm quite healthy. Do I have some intestinal abnormality?

Seriously though, you do make some good points, Halcyon. Hunting does tend to select for
intelligence and co-operation. It was also the higher caloric value of meat, especially the lipid portion, that enabled hominids to spread North from Africa and flourish during an ice age.

 

[Yerda]

Seriously though, you do make some good points, Halcyon. Hunting does tend to select for intelligence and co-operation.

Yes but they may have been hunting quick witted potatoes. Or shy, reclusive aubergines.

 

[Halcyon]

Speaking as a vegan myself, I have not eaten meat in, ahem.... a long time. I'm quite healthy. Do I have some intestinal abnormality?

I doubt it, but say you were to follow a troop of gorillas around and eat only what they eat, you wouldn't survive because you wouldn't be able to gain the same nutrients that the gorillas can, because the gorillas gut is longer and thus adapted to eating vegetation, whereas ours are shorter.

Hunting does tend to select for
intelligence and co-operation. It was also the higher caloric value of meat, especially the lipid portion, that enabled hominids to spread North from Africa and flourish during an ice age.

A good point.

 

[Valjean]

Hunting a turnip does not require planning, co-ordination or strategy.

 

[michel]

Speaking as a vegan myself, I have not eaten meat in, ahem.... a long time. I'm quite healthy. Do I have some intestinal abnormality?

Seriously though, you do make some good points, Halcyon. Hunting does tend to select for
intelligence and co-operation. It was also the higher caloric value of meat, especially the lipid portion, that enabled hominids to spread North from Africa and flourish during an ice age.

Hey Seyorni hi! no talk long time!

Of course there's nothing abnormal about your intestines. My guess is you're intelligent enough to replace the protein from meat with nuts, soya, pulses and nuts.
Now if you stopped eating protein........ you would be in trouble. I tried being a vedgetarian before anyone had worked out the finer points, and I actually became ill - but that was my ignorance; I hadn't replaced the proteins.

 

[Yerda]

Hunting a turnip does not require planning, co-ordination or strategy.

Yes I must admit that appears to be true, maybe I should have used smileys to show I was joking.

However, in all seriousness considerable work goes into growing and harvesting. Planning, co-ordination, and strategy are all involved.

 

[jimbob]

P.E.T.A - People Eating Tasty Animals. MMMMMM

 

[Natural Submission]

This was also when Adam and Eve were running around naked and didn't know right from wrong. Higher state of conciousness? Being vegan may be the right thing to do, based on various environmental and humane reasons, but I fail to see how Adam and Eve's diet plays into it. As long as we're going Biblical, the Tanach seems pretty clear that eating meat is alright, at least certain kinds of meat. Heck, there's a great deal about animal sacrifice, if it comes to that. Although, perhaps you're implying that this was part of the leading astray?

Adam and Eve were to be the standard. We have fallen from this state of bliss.

i never said we couldn't eat meat. Yes the Tanakh says we can. This is not my arguement.

 

[Natural Submission]

Does it say in the OT that adam and eve were vegan?

If you look at the length of our gut you will see that it is not long enough to properly digest vegetable matter, it is far better suited to meat and fruit. In fact it was the greater amount of energy that our early ancestors received from meat that allowed our brains to grow large enough that we can now contemplate whether eating meat is right or wrong.

Unlike other species on this planet, mankind eats flesh foods while we have flat front teeth, such as those possessed by a horse, cow, rabbit and the like. No natural omnivore or carnivore has flat front teeth. Likewise, no omnivore or carnivore has even close to as long a digestive tract as a human being. That is because herbivores take longer to breakdown and process the plant matter which they consume, while flesh eating animals must quickly expel the putrid flesh matter from their digestive tract. Accordingly, the consequences of this slow human digestion of flesh foods is one of the greatest causes of disease, sickness and premature death of human beings.
Unlike animals which God designed to be omnivores and carnivores, human beings can not run and catch their prey, nor do we salivate upon sight of the living animals which we consume. We associate only the cooked or processed form of their flesh as "food" while we associate the living animal beings as "animals." Likewise, we sweat, as do all herbivores, while omnivores and carnivores always pant. Clearly these are signs for those who reflect.
Even if mankind could run and catch the animals they seek to kill and eat, we have no sharp claws, nor elongated sharp teeth with which to tear into the flesh of the animal. Again, this is not the case for any animal which God designed to eat flesh foods. Truly God is the best of Planners, the best of Creators, whose design is without flaw. Your arguement holds no scientific ground.

 

[Valjean]

Hominids have replaced some of the anatomical adaptations of obligate carnivores or herbivores with cultural adaptations. Our food is partially processed outside our bodies. We don't need speed, claws, canines/carnassials(sp?)/molars, complex digestive systems, olfaction. We have fire/cooking, tools, co-operation.

Hominid anatomy is not a reliable indication of "intended" diet.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Unlike other species on this planet, mankind eats flesh foods while we have flat front teeth, such as those possessed by a horse, cow, rabbit and the like. No natural omnivore or carnivore has flat front teeth. Likewise, no omnivore or carnivore has even close to as long a digestive tract as a human being. That is because herbivores take longer to breakdown and process the plant matter which they consume, while flesh eating animals must quickly expel the putrid flesh matter from their digestive tract. Accordingly, the consequences of this slow human digestion of flesh foods is one of the greatest causes of disease, sickness and premature death of human beings.
Unlike animals which God designed to be omnivores and carnivores, human beings can not run and catch their prey, nor do we salivate upon sight of the living animals which we consume. We associate only the cooked or processed form of their flesh as "food" while we associate the living animal beings as "animals." Likewise, we sweat, as do all herbivores, while omnivores and carnivores always pant. Clearly these are signs for those who reflect.
Even if mankind could run and catch the animals they seek to kill and eat, we have no sharp claws, nor elongated sharp teeth with which to tear into the flesh of the animal. Again, this is not the case for any animal which God designed to eat flesh foods. Truly God is the best of Planners, the best of Creators, whose design is without flaw. Your arguement holds no scientific ground.

Gee, I'm not too sure that you can use the words 'God is the best of Creators, whose design is without flaw,' as an argument and then tell the person you're directing the post at that their argument holds no scientific ground. Last I heard God and his grand plan were a little lacking on the scientific front.

 

[Natural Submission]

Last I heard God and his grand plan were a little lacking on the scientific front.

You heard wrong, anything that contradicts science is not of God.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

You heard wrong, anything that contradicts science is not of God.

I know some people about the place who would strongly disagree with you there. Last I heard there wasn't a lot of scientific theory about that supports your concept of 'devolution'.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Unlike other species on this planet, mankind eats flesh foods while we have flat front teeth, such as those possessed by a horse, cow, rabbit and the like. No natural omnivore or carnivore has flat front teeth. Likewise, no omnivore or carnivore has even close to as long a digestive tract as a human being. That is because herbivores take longer to breakdown and process the plant matter which they consume, while flesh eating animals must quickly expel the putrid flesh matter from their digestive tract. Accordingly, the consequences of this slow human digestion of flesh foods is one of the greatest causes of disease, sickness and premature death of human beings.
Unlike animals which God designed to be omnivores and carnivores, human beings can not run and catch their prey, nor do we salivate upon sight of the living animals which we consume. We associate only the cooked or processed form of their flesh as "food" while we associate the living animal beings as "animals." Likewise, we sweat, as do all herbivores, while omnivores and carnivores always pant. Clearly these are signs for those who reflect.
Even if mankind could run and catch the animals they seek to kill and eat, we have no sharp claws, nor elongated sharp teeth with which to tear into the flesh of the animal. Again, this is not the case for any animal which God designed to eat flesh foods. Truly God is the best of Planners, the best of Creators, whose design is without flaw. Your arguement holds no scientific ground.

Lets not even get into a discussion about the teeth of the chimpanzee, or the fact that omnivores have 4 seperate tooth structures (and bugger me dead if we don't too!), do you honestly think that if a cheetah had an opposable thumb and access to a rifle it'd be streaking across the savannah after a gazelle? No, it'd be cosied up in a hunting blind with a couple of beers and a magazine, waiting for them to come to it.

 

[Natural Submission]

I know some people about the place who would strongly disagree with you there. Last I heard there wasn't a lot of scientific theory about that supports your concept of 'devolution'.

This was a mystical statement

 

[Natural Submission]

Lets not even get into a discussion about the teeth of the chimpanzee, or the fact that omnivores have 4 seperate tooth structures (and bugger me dead if we don't too!), do you honestly think that if a cheetah had an opposable thumb and access to a rifle it'd be streaking across the savannah after a gazelle? No, it'd be cosied up in a hunting blind with a couple of beers and a magazine, waiting for them to come to it.

Yes unfortunately some are ungrateful for the bleesing they've been given. We have been given the ability to think. i know studying about complex plant strutures and vitamins and herbs is pretty difficult for some. It is easier to kill and rip apart flesh, than to think in a sober state. We should be moving forward, not backward.

When the Messiah returns, mankind will awaken to the Messianic Consciousness and a child will be able to put his head in a lions mouth as he plays with the serpants. All will awaken. This may seem like a farfetched story for some, but for those with eyes to see and ears to hear, this will be a scientific fact.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Yes unfortunately some are ungrateful for the bleesing they've been given. We have been given the ability to think. i know studying about complex plant strutures and vitamins and herbs is pretty difficult for some. It is easier to kill and rip apart flesh, than to think in a sober state. We should be moving forward, not backward.

When the Messiah returns, mankind will awaken to the Messianic Consciousness and a child will be able to put his head in a lions mouth as he plays with the serpants. All will awaken. This may seem like a farfetched story for some, but for those with eyes to see and ears to hear, this will be a scientific fact.

Quite frankly, I can study all the botany in the world, but I still like steak. And chops. And dismembered little chickens crumbed and fried in hot oil. They go very nicely with a plate of steamed vegies.
By the way, I notice you have no objection to lions being carnivores, so we may awaken to whatever conciousness you like, but I'm thinking any kiddie goes around putting his head in the lions mouth is likely to get it eaten off. The serpents would probably clap, but snakes have no arms, that's why they don't wear vests.
But you still haven't answered the question that this thread posed, which was what happens to all the cows when we stop eating them, other than to say, that's not important now.