vegetarians?

[Breathe]

i understand eating meat is not necessarily a religious issue. but there are people who claim to be vegetarian for religious purposes and im trying to find the logic in their religious reasoning

But I didn't.
I avoided the other two parts because I'm not going to repeat myself.

what about people who eat meat because they have no other option. for example, as someone stated earlier, the inuit. they eat meat because plant life is very scarce in their environment. they still have to kill animals, is that not cruel according to what your saying?

As I said, it's the lesser of two evils: eat or die. Their methods may or may not be cruel, but to them meat isn't a luxury, it's a necessity. When they don't have another choice, it's an understandable practise, now, isn't it?

They still, however, make use of all of the animal. They don't eat the flesh and throw the bones.

 

[eman resu]

How are animals anything like plants?
Like humans, animals experience pain, relationships and emotions. They are conscious creatures. Plants are completely different.

Being a vegetarian, for me, is a moral decision. I choose to live a lifestyle that minimises the amount of suffering I am responsible for inflicting in this world. I choose not to be responsible for the horrors that animals experience constantly as I also try to minimise the amount of suffering I inflict on human beings.

Does that make sense to you?

i understand your point of view.
how would you feel (from an emotional/moral standpoint) if an entire species of plants were to go extinct? what if an entire species of a certain type of animal completely died out? would you feel more bad for the animal because animals have emotions and relationships? i dont think so, at the end of the day a life is a life. all organisms still have to survive and reproduce in order to continue the cycle, whether they have emotions and feelings or not.

 

[eman resu]

But I didn't.
I avoided the other two parts because I'm not going to repeat myself.



As I said, it's the lesser of two evils: eat or die. Their methods may or may not be cruel, but to them meat isn't a luxury, it's a necessity. When they don't have another choice, it's an understandable practise, now, isn't it?

They still, however, make use of all of the animal. They don't eat the flesh and throw the bones.

so according to this statement, IF being a vegetarian was a religious requirement (again i understand some people choose to be vegetarians for non religious reasons), certain people would be exempt from the rule?

 

[Beaudreaux]

what is the resoning behind not eating meat? isnt killing a plant the same as killing an animal? at the end of the day, your still killing a life to eat, whether its a plant or an animal?

Not if you restrict yourself to fruit and dairy. Picking an apple doesn't kill the tree nor does milking a cow kill the cow.

That said, I loves me some well prepared animal flesh!!!!!!! :drool:

 

[Breathe]

so according to this statement, IF being a vegetarian was a religious requirement (again i understand some people choose to be vegetarians for non religious reasons), certain people would be exempt from the rule?

Well, you can't grow grains in snow.

 

[Madhuri]

i understand your point of view.
how would you feel (from an emotional/moral standpoint) if an entire species of plants were to go extinct? what if an entire species of a certain type of animal completely died out? would you feel more bad for the animal because animals have emotions and relationships? i dont think so, at the end of the day a life is a life. all organisms still have to survive and reproduce in order to continue the cycle, whether they have emotions and feelings or not.

I don't think that is a good comparison at all. The extinction of any species, plant or animal, is sad as it is a loss suffered by the world. But the act of killing and the moments of pain and suffering are what I find sad when we kill animals. I don't feel that same sadness when a plant dies, because there is no pain, thought, awareness.

 

[nameless]

how would you feel (from an emotional/moral standpoint) if an entire species of plants were to go extinct?

plants to become extinct? the vegetables we consume are from fields, no fear for extinction. Even if any species of plants goes extinct, under appropriate climate and conditions it will form again, it is impossible to stop.

what if an entire species of a certain type of animal completely died out? would you feel more bad for the animal because animals have emotions and relationships?

it is fine as longs it is not due to the interraction of humans, leave it to nature to decide about extinction of species, it wont go wrong.

at the end of the day a life is a life. all organisms still have to survive and reproduce in order to continue the cycle, whether they have emotions and feelings or not.

humans interraction in life-cycle only brought inbalance, it was all fine before the arrival of humans. And any sort of life-style inflicting less suffering to other living-beings, without any doubt is morally the best.

 

[Kerr]

I am a vegetarian, but not for religious reasons. Just do not like the idea of eating a dead animal.

 

[Nerthus]

When I became vegetarian, I didn't even think of the religious reasons for it.

~It's simple for me, I prefer my animals alive.

 

[hyacinthus]

I used to be a vegan ( a complete vegetarian) before until the evil evolutionist who made fun of my seemingly fanatical compassion turned me back into an omnivorous creature...

I used to love it so much...

every moral conduct is based on our sense of sympathy and emotions. you couldn't find logical basis for not killing animals for food.

 

[Penumbra]

I'm a vegetarian for moral and environmental reasons. I try to reduce the amount of suffering and waste I am responsible for.

Plants and animals are very different. Plants do not have nervous systems like animals do. They don't have the physical structures necessary to process suffering, pain, fear, etc. Animals do. While I don't like killing animals at all, I'm more concerned with the way food animals are treated during their lives than I am with their death. Bringing up examples of native Americans hunting buffalo is not a primary scenario anymore. With billions of people on this planet, much of the raising of food animals occurs in disgusting factory farms where animals live in crummy conditions for the duration of their lives and then are killed and eaten.

In a developed country, one has the option to eat what they want. They don't need so many animals to survive. They choose to kill them for pleasure in eating rather than require that they kill them for nutrition.

In terms of religion, I wouldn't think particularly good thoughts towards a god that designed or encouraged the predator/prey system. It's a system based on stronger organisms causing suffering and violence towards weaker organisms so that they themselves may live or experience pleasure.

 

[EverChanging]

All of nature is an interconnected whole, an interdependent web; nature doesn't take sides. When humans are living in an environment in which it is impossible to survive on a vegetarian or vegan diet, it makes sense that they hunt to live, killing off a few animals from another species, rather than starving and bringing on the extinction of an entire species in that area (humans). There is a balance in nature.

But this is a completely different set of circumstances from those of us living in modern industrialized societies. It is infuriating that so many people compare factory farming to the Inuit or other groups who are dependent on hunting for survival, who don't waste a last single part of the animals they hunt. Hunting, especially for survival, is completely different from raising animals in horrendous conditions, where they are bred to be tortured and abused to end up on our plates not because we need the meat to survive, but because we are greedy, wasteful, and prefer the taste of dead flesh even though most of us could thrive on a healthy vegetarian or even vegan diet.

Because nature doesn't take sides, I agree that animal life is not superior to plant life, but there's a huge difference between killing a plant and an animal. The animal can suffer. It has awareness. It experiences pain. It has a nervous system. And whereas I can maintain a healthy lifestyle on a vegetarian diet (and I do, and plan to work my way up to vegan as well), I can't survive without eating plant life besides the fact that there is no evidence or reason to believe that a plant can suffer.

Besides these reasons, I am a vegetarian because of the environmental damage and pollution caused by factory farming.

If you eat meat, fine. You don't need to make excuses to me or anyone else. But please don't give me this BS comparing hunting for survival to factory farming or the suffering of an animal to chopping up a carrot. It's BS and everyone knows it who hasn't had a lobotomy.

 

[eman resu]

All of nature is an interconnected whole, an interdependent web; nature doesn't take sides. When humans are living in an environment in which it is impossible to survive on a vegetarian or vegan diet, it makes sense that they hunt to live, killing off a few animals from another species, rather than starving and bringing on the extinction of an entire species in that area (humans). There is a balance in nature.

But this is a completely different set of circumstances from those of us living in modern industrialized societies. It is infuriating that so many people compare factory farming to the Inuit or other groups who are dependent on hunting for survival, who don't waste a last single part of the animals they hunt. Hunting, especially for survival, is completely different from raising animals in horrendous conditions, where they are bred to be tortured and abused to end up on our plates not because we need the meat to survive, but because we are greedy, wasteful, and prefer the taste of dead flesh even though most of us could thrive on a healthy vegetarian or even vegan diet.

Because nature doesn't take sides, I agree that animal life is not superior to plant life, but there's a huge difference between killing a plant and an animal. The animal can suffer. It has awareness. It experiences pain. It has a nervous system. And whereas I can maintain a healthy lifestyle on a vegetarian diet (and I do, and plan to work my way up to vegan as well), I can't survive without eating plant life besides the fact that there is no evidence or reason to believe that a plant can suffer.

Besides these reasons, I am a vegetarian because of the environmental damage and pollution caused by factory farming.

If you eat meat, fine. You don't need to make excuses to me or anyone else. But please don't give me this BS comparing hunting for survival to factory farming or the suffering of an animal to chopping up a carrot. It's BS and everyone knows it who hasn't had a lobotomy.

then what is the reasoning behind some religions requiring their followers to be vegetarians but not kill the plant?

 

[Breathe]

then what is the reasoning behind some religions requiring their followers to be vegetarians but not kill the plant?

To encourage its followers to walk on the path of least possible harm.

 

[nameless]

then what is the reasoning behind some religions requiring their followers to be vegetarians but not kill the plant?

not just meat, it is also advised to avoid spices like onion and garlic .

1)spiritual aspect
Eating meat encourages the 'negative' or lower(anger, violence etc) attributes of human nature, thus makes it hard in the path of mind purification(spirituality).

if interested to know more...
Vegetarian , non-vegetarian comparison - spiritualresearchfoundation

2)Morality
already well explained in this thread.

 

[eman resu]

I'm a vegetarian for moral and environmental reasons. I try to reduce the amount of suffering and waste I am responsible for.

Plants and animals are very different. Plants do not have nervous systems like animals do. They don't have the physical structures necessary to process suffering, pain, fear, etc. Animals do. While I don't like killing animals at all, I'm more concerned with the way food animals are treated during their lives than I am with their death. Bringing up examples of native Americans hunting buffalo is not a primary scenario anymore. With billions of people on this planet, much of the raising of food animals occurs in disgusting factory farms where animals live in crummy conditions for the duration of their lives and then are killed and eaten.

In a developed country, one has the option to eat what they want. They don't need so many animals to survive. They choose to kill them for pleasure in eating rather than require that they kill them for nutrition.

In terms of religion, I wouldn't think particularly good thoughts towards a god that designed or encouraged the predator/prey system. It's a system based on stronger organisms causing suffering and violence towards weaker organisms so that they themselves may live or experience pleasure.

its interesting you say that. but isnt eating plants considered taking the life of a sessile organism (one who cannot even move and defend itself) , i know eating plants does not cause suffering to any organism but does that mean god put plants on this earth so that we dont have to kill animals? and how can someone explain the fact that humans have canine teeth (teeth whose sole purpose is to shred meat)? no herbovire on this planet has canines, yet all carnivores/omnivores have canines or some sort of sharp edged tooth for cutting through meat.

 

[eman resu]

All of nature is an interconnected whole, an interdependent web; nature doesn't take sides. When humans are living in an environment in which it is impossible to survive on a vegetarian or vegan diet, it makes sense that they hunt to live, killing off a few animals from another species, rather than starving and bringing on the extinction of an entire species in that area (humans). There is a balance in nature.

But this is a completely different set of circumstances from those of us living in modern industrialized societies. It is infuriating that so many people compare factory farming to the Inuit or other groups who are dependent on hunting for survival, who don't waste a last single part of the animals they hunt. Hunting, especially for survival, is completely different from raising animals in horrendous conditions, where they are bred to be tortured and abused to end up on our plates not because we need the meat to survive, but because we are greedy, wasteful, and prefer the taste of dead flesh even though most of us could thrive on a healthy vegetarian or even vegan diet.

Because nature doesn't take sides, I agree that animal life is not superior to plant life, but there's a huge difference between killing a plant and an animal. The animal can suffer. It has awareness. It experiences pain. It has a nervous system. And whereas I can maintain a healthy lifestyle on a vegetarian diet (and I do, and plan to work my way up to vegan as well), I can't survive without eating plant life besides the fact that there is no evidence or reason to believe that a plant can suffer.

Besides these reasons, I am a vegetarian because of the environmental damage and pollution caused by factory farming.

If you eat meat, fine. You don't need to make excuses to me or anyone else. But please don't give me this BS comparing hunting for survival to factory farming or the suffering of an animal to chopping up a carrot. It's BS and everyone knows it who hasn't had a lobotomy.

im never said anything that would hint at me advocating factory farming or anything similar to that. im just discussing about the religious justification for eating and not eating meat.

 

[eman resu]

not just meat, it is also advised to avoid spices like onion and garlic .

1)spiritual aspect
Eating meat encourages the 'negative' or lower(anger, violence etc) attributes of human nature, thus makes it hard in the path of mind purification(spirituality).

if interested to know more...
Vegetarian , non-vegetarian comparison - spiritualresearchfoundation

2)Morality
already well explained in this thread.

yes i understand that, but if a person/religion claims that animals should not be eaten because it causes pain/suffering what is the point of not killing the plant? i thought plants cannot feel pain/suffering?

 

[Penumbra]

its interesting you say that. but isnt eating plants considered taking the life of a sessile organism (one who cannot even move and defend itself) , i know eating plants does not cause suffering to any organism

Yes, it's killing an organism. But it's an organism that is not conscious, cannot suffer, or feel fear. So where is the harm?

I have not seen any coherent arguments as to why killing a planet would have moral consequences, and yet there are plenty of arguments as to why killing an animal would have moral consequences.

but does that mean god put plants on this earth so that we dont have to kill animals? and how can someone explain the fact that humans have canine teeth (teeth whose sole purpose is to shred meat)? no herbovire on this planet has canines, yet all carnivores/omnivores have canines or some sort of sharp edged tooth for cutting through meat.

I don't believe in any gods. I brought up god to point out that if there was one, I wouldn't respect it if it encouraged violence and suffering by one organism towards another.

We have canine teeth because we are omnivores, evolved to have maximum flexibility. We can eat plants and animals. Simply because we can do something is not an argument to actually do it, though.

A human can maintain a healthy diet on purely plant-based foods, yet a purely animal-based diet would likely be a disaster.

 

[EverChanging]

its interesting you say that. but isnt eating plants considered taking the life of a sessile organism (one who cannot even move and defend itself) , i know eating plants does not cause suffering to any organism but does that mean god put plants on this earth so that we dont have to kill animals? and how can someone explain the fact that humans have canine teeth (teeth whose sole purpose is to shred meat)? no herbovire on this planet has canines, yet all carnivores/omnivores have canines or some sort of sharp edged tooth for cutting through meat.

It is taking a life, and as I already said, that is acceptable to me in certain circumstances, even animal life. But taking a plant life is a life that doesn't suffer or have awareness. It is possible that our canine teeth are vestigial. They are short and blunt. We definitely can't tear the throat out of a horse. But that is besides the point -- I don't think eating meat in all situations is immoral. Even if it is natural for humans to eat meat, that is irrelevant to the fact that a human living on a vegetarian or vegan diet reduces suffering for sentient beings.

You mention God. I don't believe in a creator god, and if I did, it would only be in a poetic sense.

then what is the reasoning behind some religions requiring their followers to be vegetarians but not kill the plant?

Strict Jains try not to harm any organism at all, including plant life, to cause the least harm. I, however, don't have a problem with killing plant life for food for reasons already discussed.