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Vegetarians
- Thread starter huajiro
- Start date
Fluffy
A fool
I like the idea of creating a thread about vegetarianism, since I am a vegetarian myself. I would be really interested in knowing why people are vegetarians, to what extent they take this (eg do you still eat geletin, fish, wear leather etc etc) and whether this belief is based upon religion or not. Also how accepting are other people of your right not to eat meat? Don't know how many vegetarians are on this board but there must be a few.
I'll start it off with my own experience. Basically my idea of not eating meat and wearing leather originated when I was a Wiccan since it is, generally, accepted as the correct code of conduct for Wiccans. However, as my faith dwindled, the habit of not eating meat did not, although I did start wearing leather again. Then over the recent fox hunting crisis which we are having in England at the moment, I became more aware of the cruelty that is done to animals throughout the world and this led me to give up leather again (bar my shoes which my mum forces upon me). Unfortunately, I found that a lot of people are extremely intolerant of vegetarians, especially at my school in which it is seen as funny to try and force meat into a vegetarians mouth. A great pity in my opinion but hopefully, with time, people will become more accepting of this.
Fluffy
I'll start it off with my own experience. Basically my idea of not eating meat and wearing leather originated when I was a Wiccan since it is, generally, accepted as the correct code of conduct for Wiccans. However, as my faith dwindled, the habit of not eating meat did not, although I did start wearing leather again. Then over the recent fox hunting crisis which we are having in England at the moment, I became more aware of the cruelty that is done to animals throughout the world and this led me to give up leather again (bar my shoes which my mum forces upon me). Unfortunately, I found that a lot of people are extremely intolerant of vegetarians, especially at my school in which it is seen as funny to try and force meat into a vegetarians mouth. A great pity in my opinion but hopefully, with time, people will become more accepting of this.
Fluffy
I myself have become a vegetarian because I just can't eat meat anymore. I did it because I felt guilty about it. I don't have a religion yet, so I guess that had nothing to do with it. I get a lot of crap over being vegetarian, and I honestly don't try to talk about it. As soon as I mention that I don't eat meat, people attack me. When I mention that I didn't start the conversation and that I will punch them in the mouth if they keep talking, they let off.Fluffy said:
I used to be very outspoken about vegetarianism when I was younger. I took every opportunity to discuss it with people (especially lunch time). I was so proud about my decision. I felt like the Jehovah's Witness of vegetarianism and almost went door-to-door.
I met a woman who was a die-hard carnivore and fell in love. Unfortunately, we started having problems over diet and ideas. I started eating meat again because I really did love her. Not a good decision. I sacrificed my own personal beliefs for her, it is a very bad move in a relationship. Needless to say, she is gone and I am a vegetarian again.
Druidus
Keeper of the Grove
First of all, no one said it was less important. However, the goal of vegetarianism is to cause the least suffering possible. Plants cannot feel pain, because they don't have the nescessary organs. There is also no evolutionary reason for them to have it. They can't run away, so having pain is foolish, and wouldn't help at all. Therefore, by only eating plants, we cause less suffering.
Not to mention the health benefits...
Druidus
Keeper of the Grove
But are they shot in the head? No. Also, they are kept in unnatural surroundings their entire lives, causing psychological, emotional, and physical pain. Do you think they all grow up happy on Old McDonald's farm? No, they grow up in large "factory-farms", where there is no sunlight. Frequently, they go insane. Their waste is allowed to build up until they are shipped to slaughter. This means that no matter where they are, the sickening smell of feces and urine goes with them (not to mention the harmful compounds). Piglets are castrated without anaesthetic, and also have their tails cut off. This is done by workers with no formal training. Chickens get their beaks cut. They are all killed (and might I add, painfully. They do not "shoot them in the head")before even a quarter of their lives play out.
The pain that anything can suffer does not start at the slaughterhouse. It starts when they are born. I wouldn't wish the squallid, painful conditions on even my worst enemy.
Also, people who eat vegetables are on their first step toward other things, give them a break. I think too many people try to attack because they feel like they are being judged. I don't even think about other people, as I am working on bettering myself....I am no one to judge.Druidus said:
HelpMe
·´sociopathic meanderer`·
so you're not against eating hunted wild animals at all?
yes that came from me, what do you mean?
perhaps carivours feel attacked and often go on the offensive due to the approach peta takes to the situation, which is to shove gory images into people's faces.i personally don't mind(as nothing can spoil my appetite).
although laced thoroughly with sarcasm and witty banter, this article addresses the issue in a light you probably haven't considered.
yes that came from me, what do you mean?
perhaps carivours feel attacked and often go on the offensive due to the approach peta takes to the situation, which is to shove gory images into people's faces.i personally don't mind(as nothing can spoil my appetite).
although laced thoroughly with sarcasm and witty banter, this article addresses the issue in a light you probably haven't considered.
Fluffy
A fool
Huajiro - I'm very sorry that people can't find it in themselves to respect your beliefs, even if they don't agree with them. Perhaps the fact that you are totally in the right to have your beliefs whilst they have no right to attack you for it might comfort you... I know it does me. I find that most people merely attack vegetarianism because, as with a lot of intolerated things, it is not the norm. The more you talk about it, the more it will seem normal to the people around you and so the less they will see it as something to pick out.huajiro said:
A good point but it doesn't extend to justifying why some vegetarians refuse to kill other animals which don't feel pain just like plants. Many insects for instance cannot feel pain for a lack of pain receptors.Druidus said:
I would put forward the suggestion that a plant has no brain and therefore cannot think.... in my mind it is this similarity that humans share with animals which makes it wrong to kill them. At the end of the day you just have to draw the line somewhere, and until we can invent inbuilt solar generators we are forced to get our energy from somewhere. It is therefore, just as you say, a case of minimising suffering.
True in the sense of pain. Not true in the sense that we are taking something away from them... ie the rest of their life. I think the emphasis on the word 'suffer' might take away from the ideas behind vegetarianism. Think of it more as realising the evolutionary driving force in any animal to survive and then respecting this instinct.HelpMe said:
Fluffy
Druidus
Keeper of the Grove
Most of these crop plants would die in the winter anyways. And no, we do not believe that it is less important. I thought we were over that. However, they suffer infinitely less (because they don't at all) than an animal, like a pig, cow, or human.
Ummm... Me. Because they have no evolutionary reason for pain. Animals have it, so that they can know when they are damaging themselves, and when to run away. Plants can't run away, so why have pain? I can honestly say that no plant will ever evolve pain.
No, because lions don't have a choice. Could lions live without meat? No. Can humans? Yes, and evidence shows that we are more healthy that way anyway. When one does not have to cause suffering, why cause it? Life is already too short, so wy shorten the life of another?
By the way, in reference to the maddox article, do you not think that animals move away from the lourd thundering noise? Or are they, perhaps, all new species that are rooted to the ground?
P.S. I do like maddox, however. Makes me laugh.
In reference to the hunting: Yes, I think it is ok for anyone to hunt. However, I have a couple of stipulations, that I think make it right:
1. No guns. Way too unfair.
2. Eat everything you kill. If you can't eat it, give it to people who need it.
3. Hunt with a bow, or another "primitive" weapon.
4. Do not hunt more often then nescessary.
5. If fishing, use a spear (perhaps double-pronged), but not a fishing line.
6. Do not "trophy hunt".
Too hard? Deal with it. I know I did. Don't bother anymore. It takes real skill now, and it's a tad fairer too.
Fluffy
A fool
Is it wrong for animals to do any of the things that humans do? Arguable. In my opinion, humans have the ability to make moral judgements whereas animals do not... therefore I dont think the comparison is applicable.HelpMe said:
The point is that we, as humans, can decide between what is right and wrong. Perhaps this means that we should have more responsibility over choosing what we do and what we dont than animals. Perhaps not. It seems to me that this is really a very scientific question at the end of the day which will one day be answered when the secrets of the mind are unlocked.
Fluffy