vegitarians?!

[Druidus]

Many people are allergic to casein (not to mention the health effects it causes). I don't understand why people are willing to damage their bodies like this. Vegetarians, and especially vegans, have a 40+% less chance of cancer! Giving up meat is like not smoking!

We're simply not equipped to handle meat this way. Do you see lions dropping dead of heart disease/cholesterol problems? No. And you don't see any carnivores dieing like that. That's because they are equipped for it. We're not.

By the way, about the steak tastes good thing thing: So does vegetarian steak! 30 years ago, the best vegetarians could hope for was some yellow mush, that vaguely tasted like beetle droppings. Nowadays, we have made amazing advancements, and I can eat veggie meatballs, and not even tell the difference! I'll admit, certain foods are still hard to recreate in veggie format, but once the demand increases (which it will; vegetarians and vegans are one of the fastest growing non-religious groups in the world) so too will the advancements. Every year more advancements are made! When we get to the point that nobody can tell the difference, what reasons do we have to eat meat then? Why would we? It damages us, it hinders us, it destroys the environment, it ruins topsoil, it is hindering efforts at stopping world hunger, and many other things. It's only logical to stop, at least when the difference becomes moot. I can buy my veggie foods for cheaper then normal foods now anyways, and most of them taste great (some are complete bombs, I'll admit. It's just a matter of brands.), if not exactly the same. But soon, we'll have that fixed, and it will taste the same. There will be no excuse then, not even taste. The only thing we'd be able to say then, is that those who eat meat (not now, of course, but when the veggie food tastes the same as meat), like to contribute to global warming, world hunger, topsoil loss, slash and burn farming, environment destruction, and are masochistic (due to the harmful effects of meat).

 

[Runt]

I will never eat meat again as long as I live. I have made this decision based on my belief that all living beings are equal.

Um... what DO you eat then if the reasoning behind your decision not to eat certain things is that you feel it is wrong to kill any living beings?

A question... actually, I'll make a new thread for it.

 

[cardero]

Druidus writes: and I can eat veggie meatballs, and not even tell the difference!

It's true and they are very good.

I'll admit, certain foods are still hard to recreate in veggie format

Vege-hotdogs anyone? :tsk:

 

[mrscardero]

It's true and they are very good.


Vege-hotdogs anyone? :tsk:

Yeah...we have veggie dogs in the freezer...you want some for Lunch tomorrow?

 

[Quoth The Raven]

We're simply not equipped to handle meat this way. Do you see lions dropping dead of heart disease/cholesterol problems?

Not in the wild, no. That's generally because something else kills them. I think you'll find captive large carnivores suffer from some very human like vetrinary problems as they age beyond what could be considered a reasonable lifespan in the wild.
Live fast, die young,leave a good looking corpse? Applies to everything,baby!

By the way, about the steak tastes good thing thing: So does vegetarian steak!

If it isn't meat, and you don't want to eat meat, why is it you require something to masquerade as meat? We have a vegetarian brand in Australia called Not...As in Not Bacon,Not Sausages,etc. If it's NOT bloody sausages then stop dressing it up like sausages. I want my vegies to look like vegies. If I want brocolli, I don't expect it to put on a costume and act like a chop.
If you want to eliminate meat from your diet for whatever reason then that's your perogative, but if you're really committed to it then you shouldn't need a vegetarian representation of what you choose not to eat.

 

[Druidus]

Not in the wild, no. That's generally because something else kills them. I think you'll find captive large carnivores suffer from some very human like vetrinary problems as they age beyond what could be considered a reasonable lifespan in the wild.
Live fast, die young,leave a good looking corpse? Applies to everything,baby!

Yes, but not cholesterol problems. Their bodies handle that. Mostly degenerative diseases, such as arthritis.

If it isn't meat, and you don't want to eat meat, why is it you require something to masquerade as meat? We have a vegetarian brand in Australia called Not...As in Not Bacon,Not Sausages,etc. If it's NOT bloody sausages then stop dressing it up like sausages. I want my vegies to look like vegies. If I want brocolli, I don't expect it to put on a costume and act like a chop.
If you want to eliminate meat from your diet for whatever reason then that's your perogative, but if you're really committed to it then you shouldn't need a vegetarian representation of what you choose not to eat.

Why shouldn't I have it in an appealing taste? I never once said meat didn't taste good. So why shouldn't we imitate the taste? So what if it's not sausages, we can make it look like sausages if we feel it adds to the product appeal. Your last statement doesn't make any sense at all! I don't need a visual representation, but what are they supposed to mold it to look like? Happy faces? Dinosaurs? It's not just a bunch of molded vegetables you know. It's a processed food, and it has to be shaped like something. Sausages don't look like that naturally you know. Maybe you should just eat it in a natural state, instead of needing a more aesthetically pleasing form. The fact is, sausages are shaped just as much as veggie sausages are, and the "sausage shape" is not copywrited. I suppose we could leave it in a formless blob, but it looks better when shaped.

My reasons are for health, the environment, and ethics, not for taste. I am vegan not because I dislike meat for the taste, but for other reasons, and so, there is no reason why there shouldn't be "veggie meats".

 

[Quoth The Raven]

Most leather products are made by cows raised purely for leather. They are bred to make better leather, and the meat is unsuitable.

You still haven't answered my previous question regarding this statement. Unsuitable for what, and who says?

it's actually cheaper to live this way! (What costs more, a pound of veggies or a pound of beef?)

A pound of Not Bacon.

If a meat eater does eat a vegetable, chances are it's a fried potato. "Out of balance" depends on your perspective.

Not denying balance depends on your perspective. My family eats meat...we also consume quite a few vegetables.And fruit.And nuts. Then you get the little Tarzan kid the other night on TV saying.'I have no carrots in my diet because they're high in sugar.' I will however take so many supplements that I rattle when I walk. THAT's unbalanced.


[size=+2]

World Hunger[/size]

Number of people worldwide who will die of starvation this year: 60 million
Number of people who could be adequately fed with the grain saved if Americans reduced their intake of meat by 10%: 60 million
Human beings in America: 243 million
Number of people who could be fed with grain and soybeans now eaten by U.S. livestock: 1.3 billion
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by people: 20
Percentage of corn grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 80
Percentage of oats grown in the U.S. eaten by livestock: 95
Percentage of protein wasted by cycling grain through livestock: 99
How frequently a child starves to death: every 2 seconds
Pounds of potatoes that can be grown on an acre: 20,000
Pounds of beef produced on an acre: 165
Percentage of U.S. farmland devoted to beef production: 56
Pounds of grain and soybeans needed to produce a pound of beef: 16

World hunger is a terrible thing...there's no denying it. But we could all stop eating meat tomorrow, and then you could take the bucketloads of grain that suddenly become available to where it was needed, and the local warlords would say - as they do to the people who try to do it now - thanks;that'll be mine, now bugger off and take your goodwill with you. There are huge political considerations that go along with the starving peoples of the world. As well as gentlemen with guns and machetes and a variety of other ordinance who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. If you can't change the politics of the people in charge then all the grain in the world wont feed the starving millions.

[size=+2]

Environment[/size]

Cause of global warming: greenhouse effect
Primary cause of greenhouse effect: carbon dioxide emissions from fossil fuels
Fossil fuels needed to produce a meat-centered diet vs. a meat free diet: 50 times more.
Percentage of U.S. topsoil lost to date: 75
Percentage of U.S. topsoil loss directly related to livestock raising: 85
Number of acres of U.S. forest cleared for cropland to produce meat-centered diet: 260 million
Amount of meat U.S. imports annually from Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: 200 million pounds.
Average per capita meat consumption in Costa Rica, El Salvador, Guatemala, Honduras and Panama: less than eaten by average U.S. house cat.
Area of tropical rainforest consumed in every quarter-pound hamburger: 55 sq ft.
Current rate of species extinction due to destruction of tropical rainforests for meat grazing and other uses: 1,000 per year.
Also cattle contribute to global warming by being one of the biggest sources of carbon dioxide and methane gases.

We also produce CO2 and methane.As do civet cats, rabbits and the little birdies in the sky. There have always been creatures farting and breathing, there haven't always been people going mental with CFC's in a can. These also contribute to global warming, and the hole in the ozone layer, etc,etc. How do they figure that there is more fossil fuel consumption related to meat as opposed to vegies? I'd be interested to know how it was worked out.
The decimation of the rainforests etc, are all related to unsustainable farming practices, not just meat diets...education could be part of the answer, but probably not. Once again there are political imperatives at work here, and poor nations who are concerned with making money now over what they're doing to themselves in the future. Nauru is a shining example of what happens when you do this.
The sad thing is that there is a way to produce sustainable farmland from the rainforest, which would at least mean that they could stop the slash and burn now and we'd lose no more.




[size=+2]

Cancer[/size]

Increased risk of breast cancer for women who eat meat 4 times a week vs. less than once a week: 4 times.
For women who eat eggs daily vs. less than once a week: 3 times
Increased risk of fatal ovarian cancer for women who eat eggs 3 or more times a week vs. less than once a week: 3 times.
Increased risk of fatal prostate cancer for men who eat meat daily vs. sparingly or not at all: 3.6 times.
(This is because casein, found in all meat, is a carcinogen to humans)

For starters it's primarily a milk protein, so it's found in all DAIRY products. When my steak is either marinated in milk or classified as a dairy product, I'll go along with you there. It's also found abundantly in the seed of legumous plants. As the seeds of legumes are the bits you eat, we can all chow down on our broadbeans, safe in the knowledge that they will give us cancer also.

[size=+2]

Natural Resources[/size]

Use of more than half of all water used for all purposes in the U.S.: Livestock portion
Amount of water used in production of the average steer: sufficient to float a destroyer.
Gallons to produce a pound of wheat: 25
Gallons to produce a pound of meat: 2,500
Cost of common hamburger if water used by meat industry not subsidized by the U.S. taxpayer: $35 a pound.
Current cost of pound of protein from beefsteak if water was no longer subsidized: $89
Years the world's known oil reserves would last if every human ate a meat-centered diet: 13
Years they would last if human beings no longer ate meat: 260.
Barrels of oil imported into the U.S. daily: 6.8 million.
Percentage of fossil fuel returned as food energy by most efficient factory farming of meat: 34.5
Percentage from least efficient plant food: 32.8
Percentage of raw materials consumed by U.S. to produce present meat-centered diet: 33

I don't know what you people do with your water, so I can't say anything about it really. Here farm water comes from rain, and bores primarily, so taxpayer subsidy doesn't apply. As a country that suffers a reasonable amount of drought we're pretty sparing with our water use for the most part.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

[size=+2]Cholesterol[/size] Number of U.S. medical schools: 125
Number requiring a course in nutrition: 30
Nutrition training received by average U.S. physician during four years in medical school: 25 hours
Most common cause of death in U.S.: heart attack
How frequently a heart attack kills in U.S.: every 45 seconds.
Average U.S. man's risk of death from heart attack: 50%
Risk for average U.S. man who avoids the meat-centered diet: 15%
Meat industry claims you should not be concerned about your blood cholesterol if it is: "normal"
Your risk of dying of a disease caused by clogged arteries if your blood cholesterol is "normal": 50%

High cholesterol is also not limited to people who consume meat. The human body requires cholesterol,it makes the stuff itself. As to the medical schools, well, I'm at a loss as to how their syllabus strengthens the argument for a meat free diet.
[size=+2]

Antibiotics[/size]

Percentage of U.S. antibiotics fed to livestock: 55
Percentage of staphylococci infections resistant to penicillin in 1960: 13
Percentage resistant in 1988: 91
Response of European Economic Community to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: ban
Response of U.S. meat and pharmaceutical industries to routine feeding of antibiotics to livestock: full and complete support

Idiocy on the part of people who have no idea, and there's no reason for it. I remember when doctors dished out antibiotics for everything, from sniffles to a rash to the common cold. It was then and still is ignorance. Once again, fight the ignorance of that practice...the meat is not the problem here.

[size=+2]Pesticides[/size] Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by grains: 1
Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by fruits: 4
Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by dairy products: 23
Percentage of pesticide residues in the U.S. diet supplied by meat: 55
Pesticide contamination of breast milk from meat-eating mothers vs. non-meat eating: 35 times higher
What USDA tells us: meat is inspected
Percentage of slaughtered animals inspected for residues of toxins and chemicals including dioxin and DDT: less than 0.00004

Why do you get more pesticides from meat and dairy in your diet than plants? Because they spray the plants and you eat the plants so you get what's on the plants. They spray the plants and feed them to the cows and the chemicals accumulate in the animals body and so you get a higher ppm than you do just from the plants themselves.
Guess what...the ppm of pesticides in YOUR meat is higher than plants as well. It's accumulating in your body from your vegetable diet, just the way it does with the cattle. Perhaps the overuse of pesticides is something that should be addresssed...then we wouldn't be using pesticide consumption as a statistical tool when it doesn't prove or disprove the merits of the meat itself.
By the way...who's inspecting the vegies for chemical and toxin residue?

[size=+2]Ethical[/size] Number of animals killed for meat per hour in the U.S.: 500,000
Occupation with highest turnover rate in U.S.: slaughterhouse worker
Occupation with the highest rate of on-the-job injury in the U.S.: slaughterhouse worker
Cost to render animal unconscious with "captive bolt pistol" before slaughter: 1 cent
Reason given by meat industry for not using "captive bolt pistol": too expensive.

Highest rate of workplace injury? You get a stack of people who work with knives together and of course there'll be a high injury rate. Some of that is related to stupidity and complacency with the equiptment. I've seen people taken to the hospital after they've stuck their hand down the barrel of a mincer. Common sense says you don't do that, but people do it anyway. One of the worst injuries I've personally seen in the meat industry was the result of doing the dishes. Slices across the pads of 3 fingers, about 12 stitches all up. Cut by steel trays in slippery soap.
I've looked up those workplace injury statistics...highest rate of illness or injury yes, highest number of lost days due to injury and illness goes to the airline industry. I also have to ask where you got your information on what goes on in a abbatoir. Have you been to one? Admittedly, while I know for a fact they use bolt guns here in Australia I can't vouch for the US, but by not using them I have to assume that the employer has no liability for injury caused to the worker whilst on the job, because in a contest between an 80kg man with a knife and 1/2 a ton of cow, if that animal doesn't want it's throat cut it's just not going to happen unless it's been dropped first. The bloody things will kick you just for being in a yard with them if it takes their fancy. There must be a slew of ab workers in the US with their knees kicked out.
[size=+2]

Survival[/size] Athlete to win Ironman Triathlon more than twice: Dave Scott (6 time winner)
Food choices of Dave Scott: Vegetarian
Largest land carnivore that ever lived: Tyrannosaurus Rex
Last sighting of T-Rex: 65,000,000 B.C.

Just a few of the reasons.

Oh, and Giganotosaurus was the largest land carnivore that ever lived.

 

[Quoth The Raven]

By the way, I apologise for my statement regarding the sausage. I realise that a sausage is not in it's natural state, so if you want to take a skin made from animal protein and stuff it with vegies and call it a Vegan sausage or whatever, then more power to you. Perhaps a better example would have been the Not Bacon.
However, I don't see a problem with making stuff look like happy faces and dinosaurs either.

 

[Druidus]

You still haven't answered my previous question regarding this statement. Unsuitable for what, and who says?

Unsuitable for human consumption. They are, however, used for other things. I will admit that.

A pound of Not Bacon.

Which, however, is not nescessary to buy. You don't need to buy it to be a vegetarian do you?

World hunger is a terrible thing...there's no denying it. But we could all stop eating meat tomorrow, and then you could take the bucketloads of grain that suddenly become available to where it was needed, and the local warlords would say - as they do to the people who try to do it now - thanks;that'll be mine, now bugger off and take your goodwill with you. There are huge political considerations that go along with the starving peoples of the world. As well as gentlemen with guns and machetes and a variety of other ordinance who have a vested interest in maintaining the status quo. If you can't change the politics of the people in charge then all the grain in the world wont feed the starving millions.

Are you saying that all starving countries are headed by warlords? Are you furthermore saying that enough food for 60 million people would be eaten by this man? Or that he could possibly hoard it? Food does rot...

We also produce CO2 and methane.As do civet cats, rabbits and the little birdies in the sky. There have always been creatures farting and breathing, there haven't always been people going mental with CFC's in a can. These also contribute to global warming, and the hole in the ozone layer, etc,etc.

Hmmm... 4,368,000,000. The approximate amount of animals killed per year. Because there are so many of them, and they produce more methane, it is a problem. There are more animals then that, however, as well, in order to keep sustainable populations. Because of the unnatural population sizes we have created, methane production is a problem.

For starters it's primarily a milk protein, so it's found in all DAIRY products. When my steak is either marinated in milk or classified as a dairy product, I'll go along with you there. It's also found abundantly in the seed of legumous plants. As the seeds of legumes are the bits you eat, we can all chow down on our broadbeans, safe in the knowledge that they will give us cancer also.

Ahh, but you neglect to mention that the meat you eat has casein in it due to the fact that the animals drink it, or produce it.

High cholesterol is also not limited to people who consume meat. The human body requires cholesterol,it makes the stuff itself. As to the medical schools, well, I'm at a loss as to how their syllabus strengthens the argument for a meat free diet.

But our body produces a different kind of cholesterol. Another thing left unmentioned. Also, vegetarians show considerable less chance of having high cholesterol.

Idiocy on the part of people who have no idea, and there's no reason for it. I remember when doctors dished out antibiotics for everything, from sniffles to a rash to the common cold. It was then and still is ignorance. Once again, fight the ignorance of that practice...the meat is not the problem here.

The reason it's given is to quell the disease caused by the conditions the animals are kept in. When feces aren't cleaned away for the entire life of an animal, only dropping through grating to the ground below, desease becomes an issue.

Admittedly, while I know for a fact they use bolt guns here in Australia I can't vouch for the US, but by not using them I have to assume that the employer has no liability for injury caused to the worker whilst on the job, because in a contest between an 80kg man with a knife and 1/2 a ton of cow, if that animal doesn't want it's throat cut it's just not going to happen unless it's been dropped first. The bloody things will kick you just for being in a yard with them if it takes their fancy. There must be a slew of ab workers in the US with their knees kicked out.

Do you really think they march them in, and then cut their throats? No, they chain one leg to a pulley which lifts the cow up, breaking the leg, hip, and other bones, and then they send them on down the conveyer belt, attached by one broken leg. All the slaughterhouse workers must do is cut the throats, and there isn't much the cow can do about it.

Oh, and Giganotosaurus was the largest land carnivore that ever lived.

Indeed, I'll admit that.

 

[Druidus]

Since the 1980s a series of mergers and acquisitions has resulted in concentrating over 80% of the 35 million beef cattle slaughtered annually in the U.S. into the hands of four huge corporations.

Many beef cattle are born and live on the range, foraging and fending for themselves for months or even years. They are not adequately protected against inclement weather, and they may die of dehydration or freeze to death. Injured, ill, or otherwise ailing animals do not receive necessary veterinary attention. One common malady afflicting beef cattle is called "cancer eye." Left untreated, the cancer eats away at the animal's eye and face, eventually producing a crater in the side of the animal's head.

Accustomed to roaming unimpeded and unconstrained, range cattle are frightened and confused when humans come to round them up. Terrified animals are often injured, some so severely that they become "downed" (unable to walk or even stand). These downed animals commonly suffer for days without receiving food, water or veterinary care, and many die of neglect. Others are dragged, beaten, and pushed with tractors on their way to slaughter.

Many cattle will experience additional transportation and handling stress at stockyards and auctions, where they are goaded through a series of walkways and holding pens and sold to the highest bidder. From the auction, older cattle may be taken directly to slaughter, or they may be taken to a feedlot. Younger animals and breeding-age cows may go back to the range.

Ranchers still identify cattle the same way they have since pioneer days — with hot iron brands. Needless to say, this practice is extremely traumatic and painful, and the animals bellow loudly as ranchers' brands are burned into their skin. Beef cattle are also subjected to 'waddling,' another type of identification marking. This painful procedure entails cutting chunks out of the hide that hangs under the animals' necks. Waddling marks are supposed to be large enough so that ranchers can identify their cattle from a distance.

Most beef cattle spend the last few months of their lives at feedlots, crowded by the thousands into dusty, manure-laden holding pens. The air is thick with harmful bacteria and particulate matter, and the animals are at a constant risk for respiratory disease. Feedlot cattle are routinely implanted with growth-promoting hormones, and they are fed unnaturally rich diets designed to fatten them quickly and profitably. Because cattle are biologically suited to eat a grass-based, high fiber diet, their concentrated feedlot rations contribute to metabolic disorders.

Cattle may be transported several times during their lifetimes, and they may travel hundreds or even thousands of miles during a single trip. Long journeys are very stressful and contribute to disease and even death. The Drover's Journal reports, "Shipping fever costs livestock producers as much as $1 billion a year."

Young cattle are commonly taken to areas with cheap grazing land, to take advantage of this inexpensive feed source. Upon reaching maturity, they are trucked to a feedlot to be fattened and readied for slaughter. Eventually, all of them will end up at the slaughterhouse.

A standard beef slaughterhouse kills 250 cattle every hour. The high speed of the assembly line makes it increasingly difficult to treat animals with any semblance of humaneness. A Meat & Poultry article states, "Good handling is extremely difficult if equipment is 'maxed out' all the time. It is impossible to have a good attitude toward cattle if employees have to constantly overexert themselves, and thus transfer all that stress right down to the animals, just to keep up with the line."

Prior to being hung up by their back legs and bled to death, cattle are supposed to be rendered unconscious, as stipulated by the federal Humane Slaughter Act. This 'stunning' is usually done by a mechanical blow to the head. However, the procedure is terribly imprecise, and inadequate stunning is inevitable. As a result, conscious animals are often hung upside down, kicking and struggling, while a slaughterhouse worker makes another attempt to render them unconscious. Eventually, the animals will be "stuck" in the throat with a knife, and blood will gush from their bodies whether or not they are unconscious.

This is detailed in an April 2001 Washington Post article, which describes typical slaughterplant conditions:

The cattle were supposed to be dead before they got to Moreno. But too often they weren't.

They blink. They make noises, he said softly. The head moves, the eyes are wide and looking around. Still Moreno would cut. On bad days, he says, dozens of animals reached his station clearly alive and conscious. Some would survive as far as the tail cutter, the belly ripper, the hide puller. They die, said Moreno, piece by piece...

"In plants all over the United States, this happens on a daily basis," said Lester Friedlander, a veterinarian and formerly chief government inspector at a Pennsylvania hamburger plant. "I've seen it happen. And I've talked to other veterinarians. They feel it's out of control."

The U.S. Department of Agriculture oversees the treatment of animals in meat plants, but enforcement of the law varies dramatically. While a few plants have been forced to halt production for a few hours because of alleged animal cruelty, such sanctions are rare.

​

Reaction to the Washington Post investigative piece and others like it precipitated a Congressional resolution reiterating the importance of the Humane Slaughter Act, but to date, there is little if any indication that the situation for animals in slaughterhouses has appreciably improved.

 

[Druidus]

With a growing number of consumers switching from red meat to poultry, the chicken and turkey industries are booming. In addition to the expanding U.S market, poultry companies are also benefiting from expanding markets around the world.

Record numbers of chickens and turkeys are being raised and killed for meat in the U.S. every year. Nearly ten billion chickens and half a billion turkeys are hatched in the U.S. annually. These birds are typically crowded by the thousands into huge, factory-like warehouses where they can barely move. Each chicken is given less than half a square foot of space, while turkeys are each given less than three square feet. Shortly after hatching, both chickens and turkeys have the ends of their beaks cut off, and turkeys also have the ends of their toes clipped off. These mutilations are performed without anesthesia, ostensibly to reduce injuries that result when stressed birds are driven to fighting.

Today's "broiler" (meat) chickens have been genetically altered to grow twice as fast and twice as large as their ancestors. Pushed beyond their biological limits, hundreds of millions of chickens die every year before reaching slaughter weight at 6 weeks of age. An industry journal explains that "broilers [chickens] now grow so rapidly that the heart and lungs are not developed well enough to support the remainder of the body, resulting in congestive heart failure and tremendous death losses." Modern broiler chickens also experience crippling leg disorders, as their legs are not capable of supporting their abnormally heavy bodies. Confined in unsanitary, disease-ridden factory farms, the birds also frequently succumb to heat prostration, infectious diseases, and cancer.

Like meat-type chickens, commercial turkeys also suffer from serious physical malformations wrought by genetic manipulation. In addition to having been altered to grow quickly and unnaturally large, commercial turkeys have been genetically manipulated to have extremely large breasts, in order to meet consumer demand for breast meat. As a result, turkeys cannot mount and reproduce naturally, so their sole means of reproduction is artificial insemination. And similar to broiler chickens, factory-farmed turkeys are prone to heart disease and leg injuries as a consequence of their grossly-overweight bodies. An industry journal laments that:

Turkeys have been bred to grow faster and heavier but their skeletons haven't kept pace, which causes 'cowboy legs'. Commonly, the turkeys have problems standing and fall and are trampled on or seek refuge under feeders, leading to bruises and downgradings as well as culled or killed birds.

​

Chickens and turkeys are taken to the slaughterhouse in crates stacked on the backs of open trucks. Upon arrival at the slaughterhouse, the birds are either pulled individually from their crates, or the crates are lifted off the truck, often with a crane or forklift, and the birds are dumped onto a conveyor belt. As the birds are unloaded, some miss the conveyor belt and fall onto the ground. Slaughterhouse workers intent upon 'processing' thousands of birds every hour have neither the time nor the inclination to pick up individuals who fall through the cracks, and these birds suffer grim deaths. Some die after being crushed by machinery or vehicles operating near the unloading area, while others may die of starvation or exposure days, or even weeks, later.

Birds inside the slaughterhouse suffer an equally gruesome fate. Upon entering the facility, fully conscious birds are hung by their feet from metal shackles on a moving rail. Although poultry are specifically excluded from the federal Humane Slaughter Act (which requires that animals be stunned before they are slaughtered), many slaughterplants first stun the birds in an electrified water bath in order to immobilize them and expedite assembly line killing.

However, stunning procedures are not monitored, and they are often inadequate. Poultry slaughterhouses commonly set the electrical current lower than what is required to render the birds unconscious because of concerns that too much electricity would damage the carcasses and diminish their value. The result is that while birds are immobilized after stunning, they are still capable of feeling pain, and many emerge from the stunning tank still conscious.

After the shackled birds pass through the stunning tank, their throats are slashed, usually by a mechanical blade. Inevitably, the blade misses some birds, who may still be moving and struggling after improper stunning. Proceeding to the next station on the assembly line — the scalding tank — the birds are submerged in boiling hot water. Those missed by the killing blade are boiled alive. This occurs so commonly, affecting millions of birds every year, that the industry has a term for these birds: "redskins."

 

[Druidus]

With corporate hog factories replacing traditional hog farms, pigs raised for food are being treated more as inanimate tools of production than as living, feeling animals.

Approximately 100 million pigs are raised and slaughtered in the U.S. every year. As babies, they are subjected to painful mutilations without anesthesia or pain relievers. Their tails are cut off to minimize tail biting, an aberrant behavior that occurs when these highly-intelligent animals are kept in deprived factory farm environments. In addition, notches are taken out of the piglets' ears for identification.

By two to three weeks of age, 15% of the piglets will have died. Those who survive are taken away from their mothers and crowded into pens with metal bars and concrete floors. A headline from National Hog Farmer magazine advises, "Crowding Pigs Pays...", and this is exemplified by the intense overcrowding in every stage of hog confinement systems. Pigs will live this way, packed into giant, warehouse-like sheds, until they reach a slaughter weight of 250 pounds at 6 months old.

The air in hog factories is laden with dust, dander, and noxious gases, which are produced as the animals' urine and feces builds up inside the sheds. Studies of workers in swine confinement buildings have found sixty percent to have breathing problems, despite their spending only a few hours a day inside confinement buildings. For pigs, who spend their entire lives in factory farm confinement, respiratory disease is rampant.

Modern hog factories are fertile breeding grounds for a wide variety of diseases. A pork industry report explains:

Porcine Reproductive and Respiratory Syndrome, or PRRS, was first reported in U.S. herds in 1987. It is now estimated to be in as many as 60 percent of U.S. herds...Swine arthritis has increased in economic importance with confinement rearing, partly because of damage related to flooring conditions and partly because of faster growth rates and lack of exercise...The incidence of salmonellosis has continued to increase. It is estimated that one-third to half of farms have some level of salmonellosis...Epidemic transmissible gastroenteritis, or TGE, is a dreaded disease because it's hard to keep out of herds, there's no effective treatment and it carries a devastating mortality rate in baby pigs. Nearly all pigs less than 10 days old die if infected...Forty to 70 percent of U.S. pigs show evidence of infection with bratislava (a type of Leptospirosis)...Tests indicate 80 percent to 85 percent of sows in major swine producing areas have been exposed to parvovirus.





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Modern breeding sows are treated like piglet-making machines. Living a continuous cycle of impregnation and birth, each sow has more than 20 piglets per year. After being impregnated, the sows are confined in gestation crates — small metal pens just two feet wide that prevent sows from turning around or even lying down comfortably. At the end of their four-month pregnancies, they are transferred to similarly cramped farrowing crates to give birth. With barely enough room to stand up and lie down and no straw or other type of bedding to speak of, many suffer from sores on their shoulders and knees. When asked about this, one pork industry representative wrote, "...straw is very expensive and there certainly would not be a supply of straw in the country to supply all the farrowing pens in the U.S."


Numerous research studies conducted over the last 25 years have pointed to physical and psychological maladies experienced by sows in confinement. The unnatural flooring and lack of exercise causes obesity and crippling leg disorders, while the deprived environment produces neurotic coping behaviors such as repetitive bar biting and sham chewing (chewing nothing).

After the sows give birth and nurse their young for two to three weeks, the piglets are taken away to be fattened, and the sows are re-impregnated. An article in Successful Farming explains, "Any sow that is not gestating, lactating or within seven days post weaning is non-active," and hog factories strive to keep their sows '100 % active' in order to maximize profits. When the sow is no longer deemed a productive breeder, she is sent to slaughter.

In addition to overcrowded housing, sows and pigs are also endure extreme crowding in transportation, resulting in rampant suffering and deaths. As one hog industry expert writes:

Death losses during transport are too high — amounting to more than $8 million per year. But it doesn't take a lot of imagination to figure out why we load as many hogs on a truck as we do. It's cheaper. So it becomes a moral issue. Is it right to overload a truck and save $.25 per head in the process, while the overcrowding contributes to the deaths of 80,000 hogs each year?



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Prior to being hung upside down by their back legs and bled to death at the slaughterhouse, pigs are supposed to be 'stunned' and rendered unconscious, in accordance with the federal Humane Slaughter Act. However, stunning at slaughterhouses is terribly imprecise, and often conscious animals are hung upside down, kicking and struggling, while a slaughterhouse worker tries to 'stick' them in the neck with a knife. If the worker is unsuccessful, the pig will be carried to the next station on the slaughterhouse assembly line — the scalding tank — where he/she will be boiled, alive and fully conscious.

Note: Pigs are considered one of the ten smartest animals in the world.

http://www.factoryfarming.com/gallery/photos_video.htm

Watch some of the videos, and look at some photos. If there were no other problems because of meat, I still wouldn't eat it for these reasons. If you feel that because I empathize with beings feeling pain, that I am weak, or wrong, than fine. I can accept that. But I will continue to empathize. I cannot stop...

 

[cardero]

Note: Pigs are considered one of the ten smartest animals in the world.

Plants are probaly smarter, they don't march off to war.

 

[Druidus]

Plants are probaly smarter, they don't march off to war.

Notice: Plants are not animals.

 

[Runt]

Note: Pigs are considered one of the ten smartest animals in the world.

Plants are probaly smarter, they don't march off to war.

Um... pigs don't march off to war... well, they did stage a little revolution in Animal Farm, but that's not NORMAL... :biglaugh:

 

[cardero]

Runt writes: Um... pigs don't march off to war... well, they did stage a little revolution in Animal Farm, but that's not NORMAL... :biglaugh:

I love that book. That, and the Day Of The Triffids.

 

[Valjean]

I am vegan and avoid non-food animal products. Several factors led to this. Vegetarianism was looked on favorably in my status community, and many held that meat interfered with spiritual development or attainment of higher states of consciousness. I was also loath to contribute to the suffering and death of other beings.

 

[cardero]

I must reiterate again that plants are living entities. They contribute to our societies. They have PURPOSE and a soul/spirit. Just because you cannot hear an apple scream as it is BEing plucked off a tree does not make it an inferior/unintelligent entity.

 

[Yerda]

I must reiterate again that plants are living entities. They contribute to our societies. They have PURPOSE and a soul/spirit. Just because you cannot hear an apple scream as it is BEing plucked off a tree does not make it an inferior/unintelligent entity.

Is this sarcasm? Or are you opposed to apple consumption?