Views on gender and sexuality?

[Kapalika]

Namaste.

I am mostly curious on the diversity of views on sexuality and gender identity within Hindu religions (but other Indian/Dharmic religions too).

I know that some are fine with all of it, some are not. But I don't really know much beyond that.

I do know of Hijras ect. Is there any equivalent for female to male?

Of those tantric schools that see male and female as opposites to unite, are they generally more anti LGBT? Are dualistic schools more likely to be anti LGBT? Or are they just as likely as nondual schools?

I know certain organizations like the American Hindu Foundation are pro LGBT, but I don't know what generally the views are with most Hindus. I know that many gay and lesbian people have had issues with acceptance in India, though. But so have they in most places in the last few centuries.

I'm bisexual and transgender (MtF), would I have to be careful if the subject came up with Hindus, particularly ones that are more "traditional"?

Also what are your own opinions, thoughts feelings ect?

I've also always been slightly conflicted about how my religious views should impact my opinion on how I should approach myself.. on one hand... I am what I am... but are all of those just a part of my ego? But at the same time... at least being female and accepting makes me feel closer to my deities. We are all divine and nondual deep down I believe... so I figure it shouldn't matter. Any duality uniting is just arbitrary and people are defined in dualities as so much more than their bodies... from one angle, Om and Hrim star could have the female as the upwards triangle and the male as the downwards (which is opposite of how it normally is)... it just depends from what perspective or angle you view it from... and so much of what makes us one or the other is in our minds and hearts, not in the purely physical part.

Actually, from a physical point of view, what makes us look most male or female is controlled by hormones of which everyone has the same kinds... just in different amounts. Boys also start off as girls in the uterus before changing from androgen (this is why guys have nipples). We are all much more similar than we often think of each other.

Anyway... that's my thoughts on it... feel free to answer my questions. I just really want to know because I keep wondering about it from time to time and haven't ever really asked anyone.

 

[crossfire]

Hi Mandi. I don't see any specific hang up regarding transgender within Buddhism. The idea of being in a state of bondage regarding your gender that needs to be transcended applies to males, females, and transgenders equally.
http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an07/an07.048.than.html

 

[sayak83]

Namaste.

I am mostly curious on the diversity of views on sexuality and gender identity within Hindu religions (but other Indian/Dharmic religions too).

I know that some are fine with all of it, some are not. But I don't really know much beyond that.

I do know of Hijras ect. Is there any equivalent for female to male?

Of those tantric schools that see male and female as opposites to unite, are they generally more anti LGBT? Are dualistic schools more likely to be anti LGBT? Or are they just as likely as nondual schools?

I know certain organizations like the American Hindu Foundation are pro LGBT, but I don't know what generally the views are with most Hindus. I know that many gay and lesbian people have had issues with acceptance in India, though. But so have they in most places in the last few centuries.

I'm bisexual and transgender (MtF), would I have to be careful if the subject came up with Hindus, particularly ones that are more "traditional"?

Also what are your own opinions, thoughts feelings ect?

I've also always been slightly conflicted about how my religious views should impact my opinion on how I should approach myself.. on one hand... I am what I am... but are all of those just a part of my ego? But at the same time... at least being female and accepting makes me feel closer to my deities. We are all divine and nondual deep down I believe... so I figure it shouldn't matter. Any duality uniting is just arbitrary and people are defined in dualities as so much more than their bodies... from one angle, Om and Hrim star could have the female as the upwards triangle and the male as the downwards (which is opposite of how it normally is)... it just depends from what perspective or angle you view it from... and so much of what makes us one or the other is in our minds and hearts, not in the purely physical part.

Actually, from a physical point of view, what makes us look most male or female is controlled by hormones of which everyone has the same kinds... just in different amounts. Boys also start off as girls in the uterus before changing from androgen (this is why guys have nipples). We are all much more similar than we often think of each other.

Anyway... that's my thoughts on it... feel free to answer my questions. I just really want to know because I keep wondering about it from time to time and haven't ever really asked anyone.

Most Hindus in India are fairly conservative and wish to justify their conservatism through social tradition which many falsely believe to be Hinduism. There is no justification for a religion that believes in deep continuity between the human self and the ultimate reality to have any prejudices against people for any reason whatsoever. But they exist in spades despite everything for all those petty reasons that help keep the ego alive and well in people.

 

[निताइ dasa]

There is no justification for a religion that believes in deep continuity between the human self and the ultimate reality to have any prejudices against people for any reason whatsoever.

Completely agree here!! If anything Hindus should empathize with such situations because for us the body is simply a temporary covering, while the soul is the true self.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Hijras (LGBTQ) have always been a part of Hindu/South Asian society. They were given a world of their own at little distance from others. In India, they have all legal rights, and are eligible for affirmative action. We have Hijra households near our place and their devi temple too. Superstitious people go there in case of illness or when they are childless. The blessings of Hijras are considered auspicious. At all happy occasions, birth of a child, marriage, acquiring a new house, Hijras visit our places and are given gifts. We know those who will visit us and are always at good terms with them. They are fun, sort of. They are not poor. The Delhi Chief Hijra traveled by a Mercedes and was killed because of a turf war. We paid Rs. 3,000 (USD 44) and 5,000 (USD 73) and Saris at the time of birth of our grand children. Somehow, they did not come when we acquired a new house. Strange, normally, they have excellent communication set-ups. Here they would have demanded at least Rs. 10,000 (USD 145 because it is a bigger house). The collection depends on the economic condition of the person, more from rich, less from the poor. Since it is an occasional collection, nobody minds it. Wikipedia has information at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia) though I may disagree at some points.

 

[Kapalika]

Hijras (LGBTQ) have always been a part of Hindu/South Asian society. They were given a world of their own at little distance from others. In India, they have all legal rights, and are eligible for affirmative action. We have Hijra households near our place and their devi temple too. Superstitious people go there in case of diseases or when they are childless. The blessings of Hijras is considered auspicious. At all happy occasions, birth of a child, marriage, acquiring a new house, Hijras visit our places and are given gifts. We know those who will visit us and are always at good terms with them. They are fun, sort of. They are not poor. The Delhi Chief Hijra traveled by a Mercedes car and what killed because of a turf war. We paid Rs. 3,000 (USD 44) and 5,000 (USD 73) and Saris at the time of birth of our grand children. Somehow, they did not come when we acquired a new house. Strange, normally, they have excellent communication set-ups. Here they would have demanded at least Rs. 10,000 (USD 145 because it is a bigger house). The collection depends on the economic condition of the person, more from rich, less from the poor. Since it is an occasional collection, nobody minds it. Wikipedia has information at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia) though I may disagree at some points.

I hadn't realized that Hijras were in that kind of position, socially. Perhaps my impression was that attitudes were generally more mixed than positive towards them. It would seem from what you said that this is normally not the case.

I remember first learning about them from a documentary about genders in various cultures. It kind of described Hijras as somewhat isolated. The Hijra section of the documentry more focused on their marriage of Arvan/Iravan and the festival, and not so much on their social standing.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It kind of described Hijras as somewhat isolated.

That is true. Nobody invites Hijras for a cup of tea and gossip. But now with the new legal position, they will be able to participate more in the society.
http://www.emahomagazine.com/2014/12/takeshi-ishikawa-hijras-the-third-gender-of-india/
https://www.google.co.in/search q=hijras&newwindow=1&rlz=1C1LENP_enIN576IN576&espv=2&biw=1455&bih=705&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwj8nJKJjoTLAhVUCI4KHViyBN8Q_AUIBigB

 

[Kirran]

They're a third gender, more than just LGBTQ generally, although they'd come into that category. It seems there's a strong ethos of separation, in part due to their semi-sannyasin status which has been common, so it's a hard situation to compare.

More generally, Gopi Shankar has done some great work in this area.

 

[Satyamavejayanti]

"Mandi, post: 4640663, member: 57988"]Namaste.

Namaste,

I will give my own Hindu perspective on this issue, please don't take this as the view of all Hindus.

I do know of Hijras ect. Is there any equivalent for female to male?

Well when i was born, on my mundan (shaving birth hairs of a child, to allow new hair to grow) celebrations my uncle and many of his friends dressed up in Sari and entertained the family, the dances i am told were based on the Ramayana (as my father was a Rama Bhakta), some unties played Rama and Lakshmana while uncles took on the role of Sita and Sukhnekha ect. the entire village came, with food and bhajans galore. Also untill i started to walk my mother would dress me up in dresses which she hand tailored for me.

This is traditional in many Fijian Hindu families.

My uncle (Fathers Brother) was a full time Hijra, he performed at many Mundans and weddings, but he was married and has 3 boys also. He was never treated any different, my father used to go to many of his performances also dressed him up and did makeup, this was part of normal Hindu culture, but recently this tradition has died out.

And as Aup has mentioned the blessings of Hijras is considered auspicious and in Fiji it is seen as being blessed by "Mohini", i think this is Vishnu Rupa (Avatara).

Of those tantric schools that see male and female as opposites to unite, are they generally more anti LGBT? Are dualistic schools more likely to be anti LGBT? Or are they just as likely as nondual schools?

Well Im not sure of the Tantrik Schools, but according to some Shastras, the Purusha was One, and it desired to become two, so it split itself into male and female and that is how creation occurred. So male and female are actually part of One, and the unification is going back to a state of oneness. So i don't really see a problem with a persons sexual orientation or their gender, all of us have both Male and Female aspects about us, so one must gravitate towards whatever comes naturally to them.

I'm bisexual and transgender (MtF), would I have to be careful if the subject came up with Hindus, particularly ones that are more "traditional"?

In this modern day and age, yes.

In a traditional Hindu family sexuality is personal and is not something one discuss with parents or family members, some even see it as a taboo subject. This is i think from a lack of understanding of sexuality and gender, however this is a community specific attitude and sometimes a family specific attitude. And it is hard for people to accept those that are different and this is not just for Hindus but all of us. For Hindus one just has to use the right words to describe who they are, for e.g: I know of two people (Old family friends, both ladies in their 80s now), who have never married, they live together, but they proclaim that they rather be brahmachari for their entire life and not enter into grahista ashram, so people actually have great respect for them, they are the ones all the young ones get their blessing from for any step they take in life.

Now no one cares who thy have sex with, that does not even cross anyone's mind, because it is none of our business, nor do the ladies make public their sexuality We respect them for their knowledge and experience and hold them in high regard.

Obviously there are people who consider this as "inappropriate", but these ladies have their entire family in support, so no one dares question their lifestyle.

What i getting to is that it really depends on who you speak to, as everyone has a different opinion on the issue. As for me i don't care if your Bisexual, Homosexual, Transgender ect, as long as you are a person who is Dharmic (Consider Satya and Ahimsa as our highest responsibility) and do not act Un-dharmic - that is all that matters to me.

Dhanyavad

 

[Aupmanyav]

I'm bisexual and transgender (MtF), would I have to be careful if the subject came up with Hindus, particularly ones that are more "traditional"?

Transgenders have been accepted as third gender in India. They are entitled for special privileges. They are in politics, teaching, government service, etc. In metropolitan circles, people are not bothered about it. They are not sinners or criminals. The person in the center is a qualified engineer.

 

[Kirran]

Hijras are not really transgender - hence 'third gender'.

 

[LostKiera]

My understanding of Hijras is they are a mix of transgender, non-gender conformists, transvestites and gay and bisexual men who were lumped into one category by those that rejected them, rather than they themselves uniting due to common feeling. And certain superstitions developed about them, some positive, others less so. I don't think they're the best example of acceptance of LGBT people in history though definitely not the worst.

In recent years, Hijra people can identify as transgender in government surveys in India. Although this is a positive step in some ways, I think it's not really perfect. Some people would like to identify as a third gender but I'm sure others would prefer to identify as the gender they have transitioned to, while others have no gender identity issues, but have been classed as Hijra due to being homosexual/bisexual.

 

[Aupmanyav]

In recent years, Hijra people can identify as transgender in government surveys in India. Although this is a positive step in some ways, I think it's not really perfect. Some people would like to identify as a third gender but I'm sure others would prefer to identify as the gender they have transitioned to, while others have no gender identity issues, but have been classed as Hijra due to being homosexual/bisexual.

You are right. The Indian government is in the process of forming new laws. Since eunuchs (Hijras - third gender) are now eligible for affirmative action, the others also hope to get some facilities. This is where the problem arises. Where do we draw a line to say that a person is of this gender or that? That is why the law has been delayed. If we do not have specific rules, then all males may claim to be women and all women may claim to be males to get the advantage. In an already chaotic country with a population of 1280 million this could lead to big chaos.

 

[LostKiera]

Does that really happen though? Maybe I'm being naive but I don't think all that many people would claim to be a particular gender just for some legal advantages.

 

[Aupmanyav]

It is a life-long advantage. People will dive for it. Even now, higher caste Hindus try to get Backward Class or Dalit labels because there are innumerable advantages for those belonging to these sections. Even Christians try to be tribals. A former Chief Minister of Jharkhand, Ajit Jogi falls in that category. Indians are quick to take advantage of situations.

 

[LostKiera]

Interesting. It's sad that this will delay genuine Hijra people getting the rights they need.

 

[Aupmanyav]

First the Indian law-makers need something more than personal admission for the gender determination to provide special privileges. But there is no problem about their equality with other members of the society. That is guaranteed to them by Indian Constitution and the Courts are vigilant on this.