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Vinyl vs CDs/MP3s/digital music?
- Thread starter buddhist
- Start date
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
You'll can look backward to that invention. It wasn't a great idea though.^ Hey that's a good idea for an invention! I'm looking forward to cars with state-of-the-art vinyl players.
Vinyl > cassette > digital
buddhist
Well-Known Member
I choose analog over digital ... analog is life, digital is imitation of life. Even if our ears cannot tell the difference between music from an analog source vs a digital source sampled at a high rate, I think the brain, soul, and spirit can tell the difference.
freethinker44
Well-Known Member
I imagine a silicone amp wouldn't sound very good at all, rubber is a terrible conductor. A silicon amp, now that's a different story. (sorry, couldn't help it)
Solid state technology has come a long way. In a blind test I bet you would barely notice a difference at all.
It really depends on your gear. If you have a cheezy turntable with a $20 cartridge into some $15 phono preamp before your main preamp, then sure, your CD player may sound better. But it won't if you have decent equipment across the board. Of course, the source material itself is a factor, as well as the condition of it. On my system, I have a high-end Esoteric CD player, which is the closest to analog sound you can get, but my turntable is also high-end and running through the same tube amp at the final stage. The CD player sounds extremely good, but the turntable is just that much better.
Papoon
Active Member
Huh. I can't believe I misspelt it twice. I've written that word thousands of times.
You may be right about the amp, depending on the amp. Which is why I used the qualifier "in general". But since I started listening through my tube amp, the enjoyment level went through the roof. The audio just seems relaxed, if that makes any sense to you. I have spent time comparing, and I found that there is a difference that is damned hard to articulate, but when listening through valves I just get absorbed in the pleasure of the sound itself, and can appreciate the subtleties of tone for hours, almost irregardless of the content.
It's the same with my guitar amps. Playing through solid state I tend to be concerned about what I am playing, whereas through my valve amp I luxuriate in the tone.
BSM1
What? Me worry?
When I grew up, the choice was vinyl or 8-track/cassette.
I chose cassette, cuz it worked in my car.
AFAIK, vinyl still don't work in a car.
It will but you have to trim it up to fit that CD player. However, it does tend to detract from the experience a mite.
Papoon
Active Member
I feel fairly sure that the reason valves sound better is because of the kind of distortion they create, as clarified in this article -
http://kenrockwell.com/audio/why-tubes-sound-better.htm
On another tangent, I have never heard an OTL valve amp. That may require building, because I don't think they're affordable on my budget. I have heard that the reproduction is so accurate that many people find it hard to listen to - apparently the harmonic distortion is reduced, and as a result some audiophiles consider the sound to be harsh - just too realistic. Have you listened to an OTL amp ? If so, do those reports match what you heard ?
On mine as I listen to music I put mine in triode mode. The reason it sounds so damn good doing that is because it creates the very rich holographic sound. You can hear instruments spatially, height and distance, like they are sitting in the room. You lose a certain quickness that tetrode mode gives but the warmth is so enveloping it's worth it. Some people get all up about detail and precision, but I like warmth more. Sometimes things can be so "perfect" they don't feel real, as you alluded to. Just because something hits perfection on a technical graph, doesn't mean our human response thinks it's good. It's the difference between listening with you head versus your heart. It's the technical engineer that likes that sound, not the emotional listener.
But what I was getting at before is that a cheap CD player with crappy gear, shoestring interconnects, garbage power, etc. pushing into a tube amp is not necessarily going to sound better than a decent turntable setup running into a high quality solid state amp. Even if a tube amp is warmer, and not introducing its own noise floor, the rest of it is and it's not going to magically get rid of it. It's just at best "better sounding" garbage.
It's been awhile since I've done any upgrading as I pretty much hit the level I care to go with getting huge returns, as opposed to a cost of diminishing returns. I'm not sure if I've heard the OTL amps, but when you say what you do about them sounding harsh, I get the idea. I have a stereo VTL tube amp, and my phono stage is an Aesthetix Rhea tube preamp. But I do run them all through a very nice solid state preamp. I have considered adding a VTL tube preamp to finish it off though so I'm analog all the way down the chain playing older vinyl. Oh well, someday maybe. It's pretty incredible as it is now. Music erupts out of complete, black silence.
BTW, pops and clicks on the vinyl? My god, clean the damn thing first.
Shadow Wolf
Certified People sTabber & Business Owner
The only medium I don't really like is 8-track and cassette. They worked when he had them, but rewinding is such a hassle, and it has been many many years since I've used either. I really like vinyl, but ultimately it's your sound system that matters first, because a good system is needed to bring out the fullness and quality of the medium. Vinyl on a small stereo will not sound as good as digital played on a larger stereo system with equalizer sliders. But on a good system, vinyl sounds so much richer and fuller than digital.
But live is still the best way to enjoy music.
But live is still the best way to enjoy music.
Papoon
Active Member
Absolutely.
GoodbyeDave
Well-Known Member
I must admit that I'm mystified by the current enthusiasm for vinyl. Personally, I suspect that a lot of what people say about sound is more imagination than experience. I love this story:
http://consumerist.com/2008/03/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables/
http://consumerist.com/2008/03/03/do-coat-hangers-sound-as-good-monster-cables/
I always laugh when I read these things. Yes, if you are hooking up a monster cable to a $150 Panasonic receiver, out of a cheap Pioneer CD player, you probably may here "some" improvement. But first off Monster cables are NOT what audiophiles put on their gear. I agree, a coat hanger probably would sound just about as good. If I put monster cables on my equipment I would want to tear my ears own off my head. But then, I have equipment where you actually can hear the differences, and not marginally by any stretch of the imagination, but huge, dramatic slug you over the head differences.
There are some other factors here too with these sort of things. The people who stick Monster cables on their Panasonic equipment are basically just listening to compressed, noisy sawblades grating on their ears all the time, so they "normalize" the noise and their ears become desensitized by it. Think of it like someone who overloads salt on their food all the time, or smokes cigarettes. Their palates won't be able to taste a hell of a lot of difference between a McDonald's hamburger patty and a real quality steak. Good food tends to get lost on them, because food is just food. Certainly not worth spending $50 when they could get by with something for $3.99. Their tongues have been oversaturated and lost much of it's ability to taste subtleties and nuances in flavors. It's the same thing with our ears. If someone could not hear the difference between high-end cables being switched out on high-end gear, then they are without doubt as desentized in their hearing as a smoker is to taste.
Again, Monster cables are NOT high-end gear, and you will hear "some" improvement over the basic black and red "shoestring" cables that came with their $150 all-one receiver from Target. But don't expect like the light of heaven to open to you. You'll hear that when you put real quality cables on on real equipment.
buddhist
Well-Known Member
I think this image shows a good example of analog vs digital music:
Obviously, the gray, smooth line (sine wave) represents the analog signal produced by "real" instruments, a singer's voice, and often duplicated in vinyl and other similar sources. The red line (square wave) represents the digital signal produced by digital "instruments", CDs/MP3s and other digital sources, used to approximate analog signals.
As the bandwidth in digital music is increased (the digital square wave gets smaller and smaller to approximate the analog sine wave more accurately), the audio may seem more accurate to our ears, but IMO our brains and minds can still perceive the artificial choppiness of the square wave and feel that something is not "quite right" with it - or, at least I do. Yes, it may sound great on one level, but it's not "real" or "alive" - it's only an approximation of life.
IMO, in the same way, "real" analog light sources (e.g., the sun, fire, incandescent light, etc.) are far superior to "digital" light sources (fluorescent, LEDs, etc.). I personally experience headaches with "digital" light sources.