Warped evil parables

[idea]

The 3 Little Pigs is an evil parable about how its good to have things and view outsiders as wolves.

BP based their safety model on the 3 little pigs:

BP Oil Spill: Shocking BP Memo Says Safety Too Expensive. Should they protect the pigs(workers/public) with straw? With sticks?

Parables shape young minds.

Somebody finally fixed the ending of The Giving Tree.

This weekend on Instagram, I discovered something I never knew I always wanted: a helpful update to Shel Silverstein’s psychotic parenting allegory The Giving Tree, in which a tree gives up e…

lithub.com

The giving tree - quite a few agree it needed to be rewritten.

 

[idea]

In that parable, the field is your mind. If your mind is bad, it destroys any good idea that comes to it. If you have a good mind, it gladly receives good message and uses it for good. It depends on totally what kind of person you are and it is by what you want. No way to blame anyone else for what you want.

It takes two - both a good seed, and good /well-prepared ground. A responsible farmer would not scatter weak seeds on unprepared ground.

Fundamental attribution error - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It is never as simple as blaming just one person. It takes a tribe. Everyone is a product of everyone else. Everyone carries blame and success. We are connected.

 

[Glaurung]

The above, to me, is an example of victim-blaming, abandonment, unjust heirarchies. Some born to war and poverty, others born to privilege. If you don't produce fruit, it's somehow your own fault - not your environment. The privileged are not proven - no real trials - and judge those born to worse circumstances as having a heart of rocks.

This is silly. The parable in question concerns the human response to faith.

The seeds which are eaten by birds represent those who fall to the temptations of Satan.
The seeds which fall upon rocky ground represent those who initially respond to the Christian message but quickly cave when difficulty arrives.
The seeds which fall upon thorns represent those who are overcome by material concerns and or the desire for human respect.
And the seeds which fall upon good soil represent those who accept faith and persevere.

Cooperation with the graces God grants to us is the chief responsibility of our earthly lives. We are accountable if we fail to cooperate with grace either because we consented to sin and or because we became too wrapped up in the world and in what others think.

 

[idea]

This is silly. The parable in question concerns the human response to faith.

The seeds which are eaten by the birds represent those who fall to the temptations of Satan.
The seeds which fall upon rocky ground represent those who initially respond to the Christain message but quickly cave when difficulty arrives.
The seeds which fall upon thorns represent those who are overcome by material desire and or the desire for human respect.
And the seeds which fall upon good soil represent those who accept faith and persevere.

Cooperation with the graces God grants to us is the chief responsibility of our earthly lives. We are accountable if we fail to cooperate with the graces God wishes to work in our lives.

It's victim blaming.

The seeds eaten by birds are children born to war, left to be attacked without defense or protection.

The seeds which land on rocks could represent children molested in the church - given false message of hope, then experience betrayal trauma.

Thorns - those who read the writing of other faiths, convert to Islam, or perhaps athiesm - who recognize stronger arguments.

Pure chance - to not be molested at church, to not be born to war, to a different culture, surrounded by different teachings. Pure chance. There's nothing noble in roll of dice, circumstances that create growth in one direction or another.

Victim blaming.

The seed is weak. The farmer is careless. The ground was not correctly prepared. It's a story about evil farmers blaming victims rather than themselves. It's their fault for not receiving it? How about it's the teacher's fault, it's the fault in the message. Weak seed. Careless sower.

 

[Glaurung]

It's victim blaming.

The seeds eaten by birds are children born to war, left to be attacked without defense or protection.

The seeds which land on rocks could represent children molested in the church - given false message of hope, then experience betrayal trauma.

Thorns - those who read the writing of other faiths, convert to Islam, or perhaps athiesm - who recognize stronger arguments.

Pure chance - to not be molested at church, to not be born to war, to a different culture, surrounded by different teachings. Pure chance. There's nothing noble in roll of dice, circumstances that create growth in one direction or another.

Victim blaming.

The seed is weak. The farmer is careless. The ground was not correctly prepared. It's a story about evil farmers blaming victims rather than themselves. It's their fault for not receiving it? How about it's the teacher's fault, it's the fault in the message.

The parable is explained within that very chapter. But it is obvious you have no intention of honestly engaging with the text. You just want to bash Christianity. You are free to do so but IMO there are better ways to do it than with contrived interpretations of Biblical passages.

 

[idea]

The parable is explained within that very chapter. But it is obvious you have no intention of honestly engaging with the text. You just want to bash Christianity. You are free to do so but IMO there are better ways to do it than with contrived interpretations of Biblical passages.

The parable was designed to distort reality, downplay and misrepresent why people reject Christianity, and propagates false ideas to children and adults.

The parable is a gross misrepresentation of non-Christians.

 

[danieldemol]

YHWY means "that which cannot be named".

"The meaning of the personal name of the Israelite God has been variously interpreted. Many scholars believe that the most proper meaning may be “He Brings into Existence Whatever Exists” (Yahweh-Asher-Yahweh)."
Yahweh | YHWH, Adonai, Elohim, Meaning, & Facts).

 

[Glaurung]

The parable was designed to distort reality, downplay and misrepresent why people reject Christianity, and propagates false ideas to children and adults.

The parable is a gross misrepresentation of non-Christians.

No, it is about the human response to grace. It is a warning about the various obstacles which threaten our ability to respond positively to God.

I am sorry if the text hurts your feelings, but that is not a meaningful criticism of it.

 

[idea]

The seeds which are eaten by birds represent those who fall to the temptations of Satan.
The seeds which fall upon rocky ground represent those who initially respond to the Christian message but quickly cave when difficulty arrives.
The seeds which fall upon thorns represent those who are overcome by material concerns and or the desire for human respect.
And the seeds which fall upon good soil represent those who accept faith and persevere.

In other words, anyone who has a different belief than you has:

a) fallen to the temptations of Satan
b) quickly caved under difficulty
c) are materialistic or power hungry

And... only those who share your belief are "good" ground.

Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist - according to this parable anyone not Christian falls under one of the above.

hmmm...

 

[Glaurung]

In other words, anyone who has a different belief than you has:

a) fallen to the temptations of Satan
b) quickly caved under difficulty
c) are materialistic or power hungry

It's about grace, not belief. Grace is the divine help we receive which enables us to do good. We can choose to cooperate with this divine help and thus bear good fruit, or we can resist it due to an attachment to sin and the world. Now, while Christians believe Christianity to be the true religion, that does not mean Christians believe non-Christians to be utterly devoid of grace. The only one demonizing any particular belief system is you.

And... only those who share your belief are "good" ground.

No. Those who fall upon good ground are those who produce good fruit because they cooperated with the grace God granted to them. Whether or not a person is accountable for their lack of Christian faith will be for God to judge.

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
​

Hindu, Muslim, Buddhist - according to this parable anyone not Christian falls under one of the above.

Again, the Chruch does not teach that non-Christians are abandoned by God. Those who reject Christ knowing (at least deep down) the truth of Christianity do indeed risk their salvation but those who have inherited their creeds by their circumstances will be judged by God accordingly. We may hope for their salvation as God is just and merciful.

 

[vulcanlogician]

Post an immoral, warped, evil parable/scripture that always made you cringe.

IDK about warped or evil, but the fig tree that Jesus cursed for not producing figs (when it was not the right season for figs) always baffled me.

The parable is explained within that very chapter. But it is obvious you have no intention of honestly engaging with the text. You just want to bash Christianity. You are free to do so but IMO there are better ways to do it than with contrived interpretations of Biblical passages.

I have no intention to bash Christianity. I share the same issue as @idea when I read the parable. It is not the seed's fault where they ended up. I'm trying to engage with it honestly, but something about it just doesn't gel.

 

[Glaurung]

I have no intention to bash Christianity. I share the same issue as @idea when I read the parable. It is not the seed's fault where they ended up. I'm trying to engage with it honestly, but something about it just doesn't gel.

You're not meant to take a parable too literally. Yes, in reality a competent sower would indeed be careful to sow their seeds where they (the seeds) can grow but to fixate on that is to miss the point for pedantry.

We can't choose our circumstances, but we can choose to seek God and pursue virtue regardless. A core teaching of the Christian faith is that rational beings possess moral agency. We are accountable if we consent to moral evil because all rational beings can know the moral law. There are no 'circumstances' which exempt us for at least trying to be moral.

 

[vulcanlogician]

You're not meant to take a parable too literally. Yes, in reality a competent sower would indeed be careful to sow their seeds where they (the seeds) can grow but to fixate on that is to miss the point for pedantry.

I mean, I'm not taking it TOO literally. I know it's not a story about some guy throwing seeds around. It is about people landing in a certain predicament or environment and THIS ENVIRONMENT having an incredible amount of power concerning how they develop.

We can't choose our circumstances, but we can choose to seek God and pursue virtue regardless. A core teaching of the Christian faith is that rational beings possess moral agency. We are accountable if we consent to moral evil because all rational beings can know the moral law. There are no 'circumstances' which exempt us for at least trying to be moral.

This sentiment appears elsewhere in the Gospels, and is smattered liberally throughout the rest of the Bible. But this notion of moral autonomy is conspicuously absent from the parable of the sower. According to this one parable (and this is why it puzzles me, because it seems to stand in contradiction to the bulk of what Jesus teaches in the rest of the Gospels. It seems to suggest that people end up in all kinds of situations. Some people are born in a thorny environment, and because of that (the parable implies) they are pretty much screwed. This is very much at odds with other things that Jesus teaches throughout the Gospels, so I think it's pretty honest for someone to see an issue with it.

There are other anomalies of this caliber found in the Gospels. "I came with a sword." "I will turn brother against brother." All that was pretty puzzling to me given the rest of Jesus' preaching. Even when I give the Gospels the benefit of the doubt, and try to see if I can make sense of these contradictory ideas, I can't. And since I'm not a fundamentalist, I have no need or desire to force these verses together, or warp them until they both appear congruent in some kind of broader theology.

I simply say, "that doesn't make sense to me." And I think that's about as honest as an approach as I can muster.

 

[idea]

It's about grace, not belief. Grace is the divine help we receive which enables us to do good. We can choose to cooperate with this divine help and thus bear good fruit, or we can resist it due to an attachment to sin and the world. Now, while Christians believe Christianity to be the true religion, that does not mean Christians believe non-Christians to be utterly devoid of grace. The only one demonizing any particular belief system is you.


No. Those who fall upon good ground are those who produce good fruit because they cooperated with the grace God granted to them. Whether or not a person is accountable for their lack of Christian faith will be for God to judge.

Those who, through no fault of their own, do not know the Gospel of Christ or his Church, but who nevertheless seek God with a sincere heart, and, moved by grace, try in their actions to do his will as they know it through the dictates of their conscience - those too may achieve eternal salvation.
Catechism of the Catholic Church
​

Again, the Chruch does not teach that non-Christians are abandoned by God. Those who reject Christ knowing (at least deep down) the truth of Christianity do indeed risk their salvation but those who have inherited their creeds by their circumstances will be judged by God accordingly. We may hope for their salvation as God is just and merciful.

I think a healthier mindset is to recognize we're all human with good and bad days, all doing the best we can. For those who appear immoral, upon further investigation it stems from their experience. Backgrounds of abuse, abandonment tend to produce people who are defensive. Not sure if you have worked with homeless before, quite a bit of mentally ill do to their environment. DNA - born with propensity to drugs, nature/nurture - I don't see free will in it. "Life isn't fair", so I see no evidence of a just or loving God. Herd bonding instincts - survival increases by working together. Within the dark void of space, life - all life is precious. Religious beliefs divide, create war. Productive farming techniques are valuable to teach. Stories that unite are valuable. Stories that divide, blame victims, binary wheat/tares - it's not healthy.

 

[Jedster]

"The meaning of the personal name of the Israelite God has been variously interpreted. Many scholars believe that the most proper meaning may be “He Brings into Existence Whatever Exists” (Yahweh-Asher-Yahweh)."
Yahweh | YHWH, Adonai, Elohim, Meaning, & Facts).

Another interpretation is that The Name is a construct from verb 'to be' in Hebrew(i.e. להיות ) and the meaning is 'that which was , is and will be'.
Cheers.

 

[Glaurung]

I mean, I'm not taking it TOO literally. I know it's not a story about some guy throwing seeds around. It is about people landing in a certain predicament or environment and THIS ENVIRONMENT having an incredible amount of power concerning how they develop.

No, it isn't. It concerns our response to the Gospel message. The birds, the rocks and the thorns represent the various obstacles which can harden us to the promptings of grace.

“Listen then to what the parable of the sower means: When anyone hears the message about the kingdom and does not understand it, the evil one comes and snatches away what was sown in their heart. This is the seed sown along the path. The seed falling on rocky ground refers to someone who hears the word and at once receives it with joy. But since they have no root, they last only a short time. When trouble or persecution comes because of the word, they quickly fall away. The seed falling among the thorns refers to someone who hears the word, but the worries of this life and the deceitfulness of wealth choke the word, making it unfruitful. But the seed falling on good soil refers to someone who hears the word and understands it. This is the one who produces a crop, yielding a hundred, sixty or thirty times what was sown.”
Matthew 13:18-23 NIV
​

Some people reject the Gospel due to an attachment to sin. Others accept it initially but fall away when it becomes trying or inconvenient. Others again reject the Gospel because wealth and material concerns drive out thoughts of God and other spiritual matters. A person's life circumstances are simply not addressed.

I think a healthier mindset is to recognize we're all human with good and bad days, all doing the best we can. For those who appear immoral, upon further investigation it stems from their experience. Backgrounds of abuse, abandonment tend to produce people who are defensive. Not sure if you have worked with homeless before, quite a bit of mentally ill do to their environment. DNA - born with propensity to drugs, nature/nurture - I don't see free will in it. "Life isn't fair", so I see no evidence of a just or loving God. Herd bonding instincts - survival increases by working together. Within the dark void of space, life - all life is precious. Religious beliefs divide, create war. Productive farming techniques are valuable to teach. Stories that unite are valuable. Stories that divide, blame victims, binary wheat/tares - it's not healthy.

I reject the claim that we're all doing the 'best we can'. I reject the claim that we're hopeless products of our environment incapable of taking the high road. I understand that many today take a fashionable determinism because no one wants to admit willful complicity in moral evil: no one wants to admit they willfully made immoral choices. But I don't buy it.

Obviously, there is such a thing as reduced culpability. (Again, God is an infallible judge). But Scripture is also clear that no one sins inevitability. There is always a choice even when that choice is hard. That many choose to enslave themselves to base passions is precisely a consequence of rejecting grace.

 

[1213]

It takes two - both a good seed, and good /well-prepared ground. A responsible farmer would not scatter weak seeds on unprepared ground.

Fundamental attribution error - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

It is never as simple as blaming just one person. It takes a tribe. Everyone is a product of everyone else. Everyone carries blame and success. We are connected.

Sorry, I think all people are individuals and responsible for their own actions. And, I think the "problem" is not in the "seed", but in the person who receives it.

 

[idea]

For those who have not spent time in 3rd world countries. For those who have not spent time with PTSD soldiers, or those now mentally ill from the abuse they suffered as a child. For those who have never experienced dissociation, never experienced going into shock ... it's a warm-fuzzy-avoidance response to claim "free agency" for all. Easier to blame victims than environment. No one wants to be their brothers keeper, no one wants to admit their personal responsibility in forming environments, in nurture. Easier to point fingers - their heart is a rock, or perhaps too soft - their fault for allowing the weeds to strangle them - their fault (not ours), their fault.

Have to run. There's quite a bit of meaningful work out there for those with eyes to see.

 

[WonderingWorrier]

And other fell on good ground, and sprang up, and bare fruit an hundredfold

So what kind of fruit does it bare?

Even so every good tree bringeth forth good fruit; but a corrupt tree bringeth forth evil fruit. Matthew 7:17



Hear, O earth: behold, I will bring evil upon this people, even the fruit of their thoughts, because they have not hearkened unto my words, nor to my law, but rejected it. Jeremiah 6:19

Then said the Lord unto me, What seest thou, Jeremiah? And I said, Figs; the good figs, very good; and the evil, very evil, that cannot be eaten, they are so evil. Jeremiah 24:3

 

[Valjean]

Following Athena's advice, Cadmus sowed dragon's teeth. They grew into aggressive, fully armed warriors (Spartoi).

What do you make of this, O interpreters?