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Was Adam Jewish?

Thief

Rogue Theologian
It came up in another thread.

Apparently, being Jewish is so much more than a blood line.

In the New testament, the lineage of Jesus is shown all the way back to Adam.
Please correct me...if this is not so.

If it is...then to which should we place the greater value?
To bloodline and heritage?...or to culture and text?
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
Well a Jew has always been determined by if you have a Jewish mother, and I'll take it another step and agree with the Reform, if you have a Jewish father. Jewishness is a heritage and a culture. Judaism is a religion with texts and the like. As for was Adam a Jew? If he existed, no. There was no such thing as a Jew until Israel and his sons. Jew being the people of "Israel", and no I don't mean the state.
 

Levite

Higher and Higher
Adam was not Jewish. There were no Jews before Abraham at the very earliest, if not later.

The Jewish mystical and exegetical traditions seem to indicate that Adam, while he may have had divine foreknowledge of certain ideas in Judaism, lived in kind of a natural spiritual state of connectedness to God, and was taught moral and ethical behavior by the angels. But that doesn't mean he was a Jew. The tradition tells us that Abraham was the first Jew.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Of course there is an underlying discussion...
At what point did the Jews become God's chosen people?
With Adam?

Maybe you've seen my postings in other threads.
God created Man on Day Six....male and female...
no names...no law...no restrictions...go forth...be fruitful and multiply...
dominate all things....

This is the making of a species.

What happened in Chapter Two is a separate incident.

I hold that Adam was a CHOSEN son of God.

He and his descendants would be God's favored.

But so far...postings indicate that being Jewish has nothing to do with being...'chosen'.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
The Jews did not become God's chosen people with Adam according to Judaism. They became God's chosen people with Abraham, promising a covenant through Issac, and Judaism also says Ishmael's seed is part of that covenant, and came to fruition in the religion of Islam. That's another topic though. The establishment of the Jews as God's chosen people didn't come until they decided to accept the Torah from God.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
The Jews did not become God's chosen people with Adam according to Judaism. They became God's chosen people with Abraham, promising a covenant through Issac, and Judaism also says Ishmael's seed is part of that covenant, and came to fruition in the religion of Islam. That's another topic though. The establishment of the Jews as God's chosen people didn't come until they decided to accept the Torah from God.

So...it wasn't God making the 'choice'?
And the life of Adam and his descendants has no value to being Jewish?
 

kejos

Active Member
It came up in another thread.

Apparently, being Jewish is so much more than a blood line.

In the New testament, the lineage of Jesus is shown all the way back to Adam.
Please correct me...if this is not so.

If it is...then to which should we place the greater value?
To bloodline and heritage?...or to culture and text?
The lineage of Jesus is shown all the way back to Adam, but it should (imv) be treated as a notional lineage from just before Abram, when the narrative becomes literal chronology rather than allegorical story myth (and none the less spiritual for that).

The problem here is the great over-emphasis on the word 'Jewish'. It is derived from the patriarch Judah, head of just one of the twelve tribes descended from Jacob, aka Israel. The Judahites, along with the Benjaminites and Levites were the only tribes to stay loyal to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and these three tribes came to be known as 'the Jews'. It was never a designation intended by God, who wanted all twelve tribes to remain faithful. The better question might be, was Adam Abrahamic? Well, you are Adam, I am Adam, because we have all sinned, as Adam did. And we become Abrahamic, spiritually sons and daughters of Abraham, when we believe God, as Abraham did.

Now was Abraham a Jew as it is generally understood today? If a Jew is one who keeps Mosaic law, no. Was Judah a Jew? If a Jew is one who keeps Mosaic law, no. From Abraham to Joseph and on to the early life of Moses, there was no Mosaic Law, and there were no Jews. The example of Abraham, whose distinctive was that he had believed God, trusted him, and had demonstrated his faith in his actions, was followed by others. That same faith was also demonstrated in Isaac, Jacob and Joseph. The only genuine distinctive of the Children of Israel was faith in their God; it was a terrible absence of faith that led to the giving of the Law at Sinai. So observing commandments was a temporary stop-gap measure until an object of faith could be provided in a Messiah. So we become Abrahamic, or Judah-ish, or Jewish, by faith; a true Israelite, in the words of Jesus, when we believe Jesus and trust him for salvation.
 
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Thief

Rogue Theologian
The lineage of Jesus is shown all the way back to Adam, but it should (imv) be treated as a notional lineage from just before Abram, when the narrative becomes literal chronology rather than allegorical story myth (and none the less spiritual for that).

The problem here is the great over-emphasis on the word 'Jewish'. It is derived from the patriarch Judah, head of just one of the twelve tribes descended from Jacob, aka Israel. The Judahites, along with the Benjaminites and Levites were the only tribes to stay loyal to the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, and these three tribes came to be known as 'the Jews'. It was never a designation intended by God, who wanted all twelve tribes to remain faithful. The better question might be, was Adam Abrahamic? Well, you are Adam, I am Adam, because we have all sinned, as Adam did. And we become Abrahamic, spiritually sons and daughters of Abraham, when we believe God, as Abraham did.

Now was Abraham a Jew, as it is generally understood today? If a Jew is one who keeps Mosaic law, no. Was Judah a Jew? If a Jew is one who keeps Mosaic law, no. From Abraham to Joseph and on to the early life of Moses, there was no Mosaic Law, and there were no Jews. The example of Abraham, whose distinctive was that he had believed God, trusted him, and had demonstrated his faith in his actions, was followed by others. That same faith was also demonstrated in Isaac, Jacob and Joseph. The only genuine distinctive of the Children of Israel was faith in their God; it was a terrible absence of faith that led to the giving of the Law at Sinai. So observing commandments was a temporary stop-gap measure until an object of faith could be provided in a Messiah. So we become Abrahamic, or Judah-ish, or Jewish, by faith; a true Israelite, in the words of Jesus, when we believe Jesus and trust him for salvation.

Thank you...
but now is it blood line? culture?or lawful living?

At this point...I'm going to say...none of the above.
And I'm going back to the first notion...
Being 'chosen' is more important.
Adam is a chosen son of God.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
So...it wasn't God making the 'choice'?
And the life of Adam and his descendants has no value to being Jewish?

Well God raised the mountain above them and if they didn't accept the Torah, he was going to drop it on them, so yeah, I guess you could say God made a choice. As for do Adam and his descendents have any value to be Jewish? Adam is the father of all humankind in Jewish view. Jew and Gentile. There was no Jew or Gentile in the beginning, until the establishment of the Sinai Covenant. Gentile is a word the ancient Hebrews used to mean foreigner. Noah actually had a covenant from God before the establishment of Judaism. All mankind has a part in this covenant.
 

kejos

Active Member
Thank you...
but now is it blood line? culture?or lawful living?

At this point...I'm going to say...none of the above.
Agreed. What matters is faith, as Jesus repeatedly said, and as wrote Peter and Paul after him.

And I'm going back to the first notion...
Being 'chosen' is more important.
Adam is a chosen son of God.
Adam is everyone, and if Jesus was right about many (all) being called, but few chosen, one can hardly say that Adam is a chosen son of God. The saints are unknown even to the angels. Nobody knows who is chosen except God.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
Agreed. What matters is faith, as Jesus repeatedly said, and as wrote Peter and Paul after him.

Adam is everyone, and if Jesus was right about many (all) being called, but few chosen, one can hardly say that Adam is a chosen son of God. The saints are unknown even to the angels. Nobody knows who is chosen except God.

I am willing to say Adam is chosen.
But I believe that Man was a species on Day Six.
The Garden event happened after Day Seven.
For the Garden event to happen...someone had to be chosen.

Chapter Two has all the earmarks of an experiment.
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
So basically Thief you're asking this question with an already proconcieved notion, so that you won't accept an answer contrary to yours, even if a Jew answers you?
 

Rainbow Mage

Lib Democrat/Agnostic/Epicurean-ish/Buddhist-ish
See this is the problem between Christianity and Judaism. Christians always want to reflect their ideas about Judaism and Jewishness onto Jews, rather then actually seriously considering the Jewish POV.
 

Thief

Rogue Theologian
See this is the problem between Christianity and Judaism. Christians always want to reflect their ideas about Judaism and Jewishness onto Jews, rather then actually seriously considering the Jewish POV.


Actually...I don't lean to any religion.
And that I don't jump straight to your discussion with open arms....
is not a reflection of me.

I don't lean to religion because each belief system carries a great deal of baggage.
Some of which is displayed here in this topic.
And most religions do insist on their viewpoint...all of it.

So...you can't be Jewish, unless you chase after Abraham, and Moses.
Can't be Christian without Jesus first.
Can't be Muslim without Muhammad, the last of all prophets.

What most religions fail to see....
Any prophet that spoke well of God, will stand well before God...
ALL of them.

And the nay saying will be left at the door.

And it will be the angels that do the choosing.

So if Adam isn't Jewish...or gentile...
Anyone care to offer a label?
 
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