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Was Christ a Stoner?

linwood

Well-Known Member
mormonman said:
Where in the Bible does it say, "And it came to pass that Jesus absorbed pot through his head."
I could re-post the OP here and color code, and go through it word by word for you if you like.
I`m getting used to doing this for you and I really don`t mind much.

Just let me know if you get frustrated trying to comprehend it on your own and I`ll help you out.

Genesis 19:
32Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father." 33So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father. He did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

34The next day, the firstborn said to the younger, "Behold, I lay last night with my father. Let us make him drink wine tonight also. Then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father." 35So they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose. 36Thus both the daughters of Lot became pregnant by their father.


Sounds to me like the man God proclaimed as "the most righteous of men" was getting stinking drunk for days on end.


Maybe the wine they gave Lot was un-fermented and he was just fakin`, y`know to "git him some."
 

Valjean

Veteran Member
Premium Member
In a hot climate without refrigeration fruit juice will either go bad or begin fermenting in a matter of hours. The only way to store any drink other than water is to convert it into wine or cheese.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
Seyorni said:
In a hot climate without refrigeration fruit juice will either go bad or begin fermenting in a matter of hours. The only way to store any drink other than water is to convert it into wine or cheese.
You must spread some Karma around before giving it to Seyorni again.

I owe you for pointing out the obvious that I never even thought of.

I`ve got to remember to "keep it simple stupid!"

Thanks Seyorni.
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
linwood said:
I could re-post the OP here and color code, and go through it word by word for you if you like.
I`m getting used to doing this for you and I really don`t mind much.

Just let me know if you get frustrated trying to comprehend it on your own and I`ll help you out.

Genesis 19:
32Come, let us make our father drink wine, and we will lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father." 33So they made their father drink wine that night. And the firstborn went in and lay with her father. He did not know when she lay down or when she arose.

34The next day, the firstborn said to the younger, "Behold, I lay last night with my father. Let us make him drink wine tonight also. Then you go in and lie with him, that we may preserve offspring from our father." 35So they made their father drink wine that night also. And the younger arose and lay with him, and he did not know when she lay down or when she arose. 36Thus both the daughters of Lot became pregnant by their father.


Sounds to me like the man God proclaimed as "the most righteous of men" was getting stinking drunk for days on end.


Maybe the wine they gave Lot was un-fermented and he was just fakin`, y`know to "git him some."
Your degrading tone towards mormonman is inappropriate and I hope a mod. lets you know that.

As for the verses you quoted, I believe they are wrong. According to the Joseph Smith Translation of the Bible, or "inspired version," verse 35 begins And they did wickedly, and...

Yes, it appears the wine made Lot drunk, but he was deceived by his daughters. I'm not saying this means the wine was unfermented. But just because God allowed people to drink wine during one time does not mean he will allow it in a different time. In fact, if you look at my previous post, there are many instances in the scriptures where we are told not to drink wine or strong drink.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
nutshell said:
Your degrading tone towards mormonman is inappropriate and I hope a mod. lets you know that.
I really couldn`t care less.

Yes, it appears the wine made Lot drunk, but he was deceived by his daughters.
Thats right I forgot.
A man who is so drunk he can`t wake up while his daughter is performing the horizontal bop on him (Yet he`s still able to perform) isn`t too swift on the uptake in the first place.
Sorry, I`ll withdraw the post and concede Lot`s not a valid example.
:)

Would you like to take a shot at Seyornis post about the fermentation of wine?
 

nutshell

Well-Known Member
I have no trouble admitting there was fermented wine (alcohol) in the Bible. My argument is that God has changed *gasps* his laws over time to fit the situation at hand.
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
nutshell said:
I have no trouble admitting there was fermented wine (alcohol) in the Bible. My argument is that God has changed *gasps* his laws over time to fit the situation at hand.
Could you cite where God has made these changes known to humanity?
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
This is if Jesus was a stoner, but here are just a few verses, good and bad about wine, seems you should do it in moderation if you do it at all:

4:5 Let your moderation be known unto all men. The Lord is at hand.
(King James Bible, Philippians)


...when the LORD thy God hath blessed thee: 14:25 Then shalt thou turn it into money, and bind up the money in thine hand, and shalt go unto the place which the LORD thy God shall choose: 14:26 And thou shalt bestow that money for whatsoever thy soul lusteth after, for oxen, or for sheep, or for wine, or for strong drink, or for whatsoever thy soul desireth: and thou shalt eat there before the LORD thy God, and thou shalt rejoice, thou, and thine household,
(King James Bible, Deuteronomy)

2:11 If a man walking in the spirit and falsehood do lie, saying, I will prophesy unto thee of wine and of strong drink;

(King James Bible, Micah)

20:1 Wine is a mocker, strong drink is raging: and whosoever is deceived thereby is not wise.

(King James Bible, Proverbs)

31:4 It is not for kings, O Lemuel, it is not for kings to drink wine; nor for princes strong drink: 31:5 Lest they drink, and forget the law, and pervert the judgment of any of the afflicted.

31:6 Give strong drink unto him that is ready to perish, and wine unto those that be of heavy hearts.

31:7 Let him drink, and forget his poverty, and remember his misery no more.

28:7 But they also have erred through wine, and through strong drink are out of the way; the priest and the prophet have erred through strong drink, they are swallowed up of wine, they are out of the way through strong drink; they err in vision, they stumble in judgment.
28:8 For all tables are full of vomit and filthiness, so that there is no place clean.

104:15 And wine that maketh glad the heart of man, and oil to make his face to shine, and bread which strengtheneth man's heart.
(King James Bible, Psalms)

21:17 He that loveth pleasure shall be a poor man: he that loveth wine and oil shall not be rich.
(King James Bible, Proverbs)

23:29 Who hath woe? who hath sorrow? who hath contentions? who hath babbling? who hath wounds without cause? who hath redness of eyes? 23:30 They that tarry long at the wine; they that go to seek mixed wine.
23:31 Look not thou upon the wine when it is red, when it giveth his colour in the cup, when it moveth itself aright.
23:32 At the last it biteth like a serpent, and stingeth like an adder.
23:33 Thine eyes shall behold strange women, and thine heart shall utter perverse things.
23:34 Yea, thou shalt be as he that lieth down in the midst of the sea, or as he that lieth upon the top of a mast.
23:35 They have stricken me, shalt thou say, and I was not sick; they have beaten me, and I felt it not: when shall I awake? I will seek it yet again.

9:7 Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.
(King James Bible, Ecclesiastes)

3:8 Likewise must the deacons be grave, not doubletongued, not given to much wine, not greedy of filthy lucre; 3:9 Holding the mystery of the faith in a pure conscience.
(King James Bible, 1 Timothy)

4:3 For the time past of our life may suffice us to have wrought the will of the Gentiles, when we walked in lasciviousness, lusts, excess of wine, revellings, banquetings, and abominable idolatries: 4:4 Wherein they think it strange that ye run not with them to the same excess of riot, speaking evil of you:
(King James Bible, 1 Peter)

5:23 Drink no longer water, but use a little wine for thy stomach's sake and thine often infirmities.
(King James Bible, 1 Timothy)

23:20 Be not among winebibbers; among riotous eaters of flesh: 23:21 For the drunkard and the glutton shall come to poverty: and drowsiness shall clothe a man with rags.
(King James Bible, Proverbs)
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
nutshell said:
I have no trouble admitting there was fermented wine (alcohol) in the Bible. My argument is that God has changed *gasps* his laws over time to fit the situation at hand.

I was under the impression that God was never-changing...
 

linwood

Well-Known Member
linwood, as a side note, i really like your avatar. Can you tell me what it's from?
Thank you, It`s a painting I made.
http://kingsmuse.net/linwood/gallery/blackbird03.htm

Well, I expect you won't accept it, but here is what I believe. God revealed it to his prophet Joseph Smith and it is recorded at the following link: http://scriptures.lds.org/dc/89
You`re right, I can`t accept it but at least we don`t need to keep going round and round debating a topic from two different viewpoints anymore.

:)

Thanks.
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
gnosis_777 said:
I was under the impression that God was never-changing...
God does change, He has to change, think about it. Old Testament times are much different then today's times.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
beckysoup61 said:
God does change, He has to change, think about it. Old Testament times are much different then today's times.

the comment earlier is what the Christians at school,

The actual view I have of it is really messed up... so i picked theirs...

But it makes more sense if God is a "personal God" that he could change and grow and such....
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
gnosis_777 said:
the comment earlier is what the Christians at school,

The actual view I have of it is really messed up... so i picked theirs...

But it makes more sense if God is a "personal God" that he could change and grow and such....
He is still omnciesent(spelling), everpresent, etc. There are many things, there is something I heard in my Christian History class that cemented it for me, it has to do with the Brother of Jared from the Book of Mormon.
 

Buttons*

Glass half Panda'd
beckysoup61 said:
He is still omnciesent(spelling), everpresent, etc. There are many things, there is something I heard in my Christian History class that cemented it for me, it has to do with the Brother of Jared from the Book of Mormon.

Neat! I'll have to check that guy out!
 

Bishka

Veteran Member
gnosis_777 said:
Neat! I'll have to check that guy out!
I'll explain it, well how it came to be for me. I believe in the literal flood of the earth. Noah built the ark with help from the Lord, the Lord told him exactly what to do. For instance a window(it mentions it somewhere in the KJV version of the Bible).

In the story of the Brother of Jared, they are crossing the great deep(ocean) and they were building barges(boats) to get across the water. The Lord tells Jared what to do about air, but not light, He asks the Brother of Jared(I'm paraphrasing), "What do you want me(the Lord) to do?".

For me that showed that the Lord wasn't always going to give the answers and that He does change, that each situation is different from the Lord, we are all different and the Lord knows that.
 

joeboonda

Well-Known Member
beckysoup61 said:
God does change, He has to change, think about it. Old Testament times are much different then today's times.
6For I am the LORD, I change not; therefore ye sons of Jacob are not consumed. Malachi 3:6.

An age may change, from eternity past, to the age of innocence in the Garden, to the age of conscience, to the age of human government, to the age of promise, to the age of Law, to the age of grace, to the age of the kingdom, andt to eternity future, but God does not change.
 
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