Was Jesus A Narcissist?

[CynthiaCypher]

First I would like to present to you guys what the DSM-IV defines as narcissistic personality disorder, if I may:

A pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following:
1.Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)
2.Is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love
3.Believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)
4.Requires excessive admiration
5.Has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations
6.Is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends
7.Lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others
8.Is often envious of others or believes others are envious of him or her
9.Shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes

Oh boy, oh boy. What more could I say? All one has to do is pick up your own copy of the New Testament and you will see that Jesus was a bit narcissistic to say the least. So what say you guys, was JC a narcissist?

 

[Quintessence]

Doesn't seem that way to me, largely because of specific words in the technical definition. I'm skeptical on enough of these that it definitely doesn't add up to the number required for a diagnosis. There's only maybe three of them that I might grant. I'm cautious to do a breakdown, though, because I honestly have not read much of the New Testament. From what I remember, though, Jesus fails on multiple levels to display the extremes required for a diagnosis.

 

[outhouse]

First I would like to present to you guys what the DSM-IV defines as narcissistic personality disorder, if I may:



Oh boy, oh boy. What more could I say? All one has to do is pick up your own copy of the New Testament and you will see that Jesus was a bit narcissistic to say the least. So what say you guys, was JC a narcissist?

No


he doesnt have enough historicity to make any claim about personality

 

[angellous_evangellous]

My dog is a narcissist.

 

[ChristineES]

Only if He wasn't who He said He was. Since I believe what He said, then no, He is not.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

No, but then we know little of what Jesus thought of himself or others. We go by what some people say he was like and most of that is contradictory. My guess is much of the grandeur was added later to pump up the myth so to speak.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Ok peeps i think we should get out our Bibles and look at the symptoms one at a time, lets start with the first one:

1.Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

So who wants to go first? Don't be shy.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Ok peeps i think we should get out our Bibles and look at the symptoms one at a time, lets start with the first one:

1.Has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)

So who wants to go first? Don't be shy.

I think my statement covers this.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

I think my statement covers this.

Well I don't agree. I believe we have enough material to evaluate whether Jesus was a narcissist or not. Even though the Gospels are not totally accurate has historical documents, they do contain within them some of the things that Jesus actualy said such as:

“Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. "

"38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.” 39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here. 42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here."


In these verses from Matt 12 Jesus compares himself to the Temple, King David, King Solomon and the Prophet Jonah and then deems himself as greater than all.


Is that grandiosity or what? Jesus definitely fits the first requirement

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Well I don't agree. I believe we have enough material to evaluate whether Jesus was a narcissist or not. Even though the Gospels are not totally accurate has historical documents, they do contain within them some of the things that Jesus actualy said such as:

No, they contain things that other people say Jesus said.

Is that grandiosity or what? Jesus definitely fits the first requirement

What fits is that this was how the writer saw Jesus and he quoted Jesus some 30+ years after his death. Chances are there are some liberties taken by the writer.

 

[InChrist]

Well I don't agree. I believe we have enough material to evaluate whether Jesus was a narcissist or not. Even though the Gospels are not totally accurate has historical documents, they do contain within them some of the things that Jesus actualy said such as:

“Haven’t you read what David did when he and his companions were hungry? 4 He entered the house of God, and he and his companions ate the consecrated bread—which was not lawful for them to do, but only for the priests. 5 Or haven’t you read in the Law that the priests on Sabbath duty in the temple desecrate the Sabbath and yet are innocent? 6 I tell you that something greater than the temple is here. "

"38 Then some of the Pharisees and teachers of the law said to him, “Teacher, we want to see a sign from you.” 39 He answered, “A wicked and adulterous generation asks for a sign! But none will be given it except the sign of the prophet Jonah. 40 For as Jonah was three days and three nights in the belly of a huge fish, so the Son of Man will be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth. 41 The men of Nineveh will stand up at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for they repented at the preaching of Jonah, and now something greater than Jonah is here. 42 The Queen of the South will rise at the judgment with this generation and condemn it; for she came from the ends of the earth to listen to Solomon’s wisdom, and now something greater than Solomon is here."


In these verses from Matt 12 Jesus compares himself to the Temple, King David, King Solomon and the Prophet Jonah and then deems himself as greater than all.


Is that grandiosity or what? Jesus definitely fits the first requirement

If Jesus was God who came to earth to live in the flesh for the sake of saving His creation, which is what I believe the scriptures teach, then He certainly was not acting in a grandiose manner.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. Philippians 2:5-7

 

[CynthiaCypher]

No, they contain things that other people say Jesus said.



What fits is that this was how the writer saw Jesus and he quoted Jesus some 30+ years after his death. Chances are there are some liberties taken by the writer.

Let's see what the scholars of the Jesus Seminar say about this passage. Ok. Well it seems that Jesus said similar things in the other gospels. Therefore there are multiple attestations, so in all probability...Jesus actually said he was greater than Solomon

 

[CynthiaCypher]

If Jesus was God who came to earth to live in the flesh for the sake of saving His creation, which is what I believe the scriptures teach, then He certainly was not acting in a grandiose manner.

Let this mind be in you which was also in Christ Jesus, who, being in the form of God, did not consider it robbery to be equal with God, but made Himself of no reputation, taking the form of a bondservant, and coming in the likeness of men. Philippians 2:5-7

Do you have any scripture of Jesus actually saying he was God?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Let's see what the scholars of the Jesus Seminar say about this passage. Ok. Well it seems that Jesus said similar things in the other gospels. Therefore there are multiple attestations, so in all probability...Jesus actually said he was greater than Solomon

Hey, its possible. I admit that the bible might have gotten it right but at the same time my personal feeling is that it didn't. It's possible that Jesus was narcissistic but me personally, I don't think so. I look forward to seeing what folks post on the subject. Great thread but that's what I expect from you.

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Hey, its possible. I admit that the bible might have gotten it right but at the same time my personal feeling is that it didn't. It's possible that Jesus was narcissistic but me personally, I don't think so. I look forward to seeing what folks post on the subject. Great thread but that's what I expect from you.

Personal feeling don't count, only the criterion to determine historicity does. We might not have eyewitness accounts of what Jesus said and did but we have some kinda of accounts...the Gospels. I know they are not totally historical but I do believe that they do contain with some accuracy the things Jesus actually said

 

[ChristineES]

Do you only want answers from people who agree with you? I thought I gave an answer.

 

[fallingblood]

My dog is a narcissist.

I thought only cats were?

 

[CynthiaCypher]

Do you only want answers from people who agree with you? I thought I gave an answer.

Ok, who did he say he was?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Personal feeling don't count, only the criterion to determine historicity does. We might not have eyewitness accounts of what Jesus said and did but we have some kinda of accounts...the Gospels. I know they are not totally historical but I do believe that they do contain with some accuracy the things Jesus actually said

From a pure scholarly approach I don't think the evidence leans towards accuracy, especially when you take all the lost gospels into account and the fact we know there were gospels destroyed in their entirety because they didn't match up with the orthodox gospels. While we may not know what the different gospels said we know they existed and did not match up with what we have today. That fact alone makes the history of Jesus' quotes suspect. To accept the bible as history requires faith as it doesn't hold up to the criterion used to determine historicity.

 

[outhouse]

Let's see what the scholars of the Jesus Seminar say about this passage. Ok. Well it seems that Jesus said similar things in the other gospels. Therefore there are multiple attestations, so in all probability...Jesus actually said he was greater than Solomon

multiple, cannot mean they copied a earlier source?