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Was Jesus actually crucified?

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
I think you need to reread what we were talking about. I was only talking about the resurrection and nothing more. There was no real reason for Paul to expand on the crucifixion of Jesus.

Even the ministry of Jesus, Paul had little reason to expand on. Paul was more interested in the post-resurrection Jesus, and that is what we see him cover in his letters (even though we can still find quotes, and details about Jesus).

OK. All I can say is that my experience with humans is profoundly different from yours. I can't imagine a guy keeping mum on the earthly life of his Lord and Master -- if he knew anything about it. So I feel pretty certain that Paul just didn't know anything about the life of Jesus. Which means to me that the 30 AD Jerusalem 'Christians' didn't know anything about the life of the earthly Jesus. Which means to me that Jesus' ministry didn't happen around 30AD.

Last word to you, unless you've got any questions for me.
 

outhouse

Atheistically
OK. All I can say is that my experience with humans is profoundly different from yours. I can't imagine a guy keeping mum on the earthly life of his Lord and Master -- if he knew anything about it. So I feel pretty certain that Paul just didn't know anything about the life of Jesus. Which means to me that the 30 AD Jerusalem 'Christians' didn't know anything about the life of the earthly Jesus. Which means to me that Jesus' ministry didn't happen around 30AD.

Last word to you, unless you've got any questions for me.


thats a good point

BUT

what if yeshua was just another teacher of judaism a liitle different then mainstream, just like all the other self proclaimed prophets on ever street corner.

its a fact the story grew after his death, it wasnt just the story that grew. he started a new theology to include pagans at the right time and place when judaism needed to branch out. during his lifetime the new theology took a while to grow and snowball.


I never liked paul and find his work on the shady side, its obvious he never knew or met yeshua. I find his work to basically create and promote his own version.
 
There is also this record. Around 5000 years ago God danced upon the earth, just as some claim he did 500 years ago. The same God. Near a rural village on a moonlit night all the village maidens wanted to dance with Him, and He with them. So that every young girl could dance with Him, it is recorded that He expanded himself (bilocated) so that everyone could dance with Him. There is a commentary on this story where it is mentioned that Saints and angles can only bilocate 10 times at once but that God can bilocate as many times as He desires. There is another record from the same period where He bilocates over 100,000 times. These things are mentioned in the first canto of the Shrimad-bhagavatam. That is written in Sanskrit.

Krishna. :)
 
Haridas Thakura was a Muslim by birth but instead of embracing his religion, instead he was very attached to praying with the Hindus and saying their prayers. This upset the Muslims terribly. Finally after all their tricks to prove that Haridas was not a saint, failed, they had soldiers bring him in front of the Muslim magistrate. He told him if he renounced the names of the Hindu God and returned to Allah, that he would be set free. If not, he would be condemned to death.

Haridas refused to give up his Hindu prayers and was thus condemned to death by whipping. After the 21st beating he was still alive. Terror ran through his executioners because they would be accused of taking it easy on Haridas and be put to death, themselves. Taking pitty on them, Haridas went into a trance and was thought to be finally dead. His body was then thrown into a river where miles away he climbed out. Anyhow, the thing about this story is that years later (about 500 years ago) a great personality was upon the earth and Haridas was his dear friend. Many say that this person was none other than God. One day when everyone was talking about the beating that Haridas received, this divine person said that actually it wasn't Haridas that was beat. He then stood up and turned around, exposing a divine vision of his shredded back. Many of his followers fainted.

Haridasa Thakura and Sri Chaitanya Mahaprabhu, considered an incarnation of God in Gaudiya Vaishnavism.

Other than that, nothing else makes sense.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
If you want to see ample reason why there is the possiblity, then read the book. But far more important is the living Jesus Christ. Let us all waken our love for Christ and be Holy as He asked us to be.
A fictional book is not evidence for reality. I don't take The Hobbit and pretend that it is evidence for Middle Earth.
 

AmbiguousGuy

Well-Known Member
what if yeshua was just another teacher of judaism a liitle different then mainstream, just like all the other self proclaimed prophets on ever street corner.

its a fact the story grew after his death, it wasnt just the story that grew. he started a new theology to include pagans at the right time and place when judaism needed to branch out. during his lifetime the new theology took a while to grow and snowball.

I never liked paul and find his work on the shady side, its obvious he never knew or met yeshua. I find his work to basically create and promote his own version.

It's a deeply cynical Paul you describe, and I can't disagree with that. You're saying he may indeed have heard stories about Jesus' ministry but consciously perverted all of that in favor of his own theology-building?

It seems possible. Still, to me it seems that Paul didn't believe in a 30 CE Jesus. If he had, surely he would have incorporated stories of the earthly Jesus into his letters, even if he stretched or even concocted those stories.
 

fallingblood

Agnostic Theist
It's a deeply cynical Paul you describe, and I can't disagree with that. You're saying he may indeed have heard stories about Jesus' ministry but consciously perverted all of that in favor of his own theology-building?

It seems possible. Still, to me it seems that Paul didn't believe in a 30 CE Jesus. If he had, surely he would have incorporated stories of the earthly Jesus into his letters, even if he stretched or even concocted those stories.

That wasn't the purpose of Pauls letters though. They were not written in order to spread the word of Jesus. They were written in order to answer problems and questions that had arisen while he was away.

Paul would have preached something quite different from what he was writing. Mainly because when he was preaching he was trying to draw people towards his beliefs. When he was writing it was a different situation.
 
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