Was Jesus, Adam?

[arthra]

you're stating that the same spirit of muhammad was the same as jesus?

In the context of the Baha'i Writings I am stating that ... Yes.

"Every discerning observer will recognize that in the Dispensation of the Qur'án both the Book and the Cause of Jesus were confirmed. As to the matter of names, Muhammad, Himself, declared: "I am Jesus." He recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and words of Jesus, and testified that they were all of God. In this sense, neither the person of Jesus nor His writings hath differed from that of Muhammad and of His holy Book, inasmuch as both have championed the Cause of God, uttered His praise, and revealed His commandments. Thus it is that Jesus, Himself, declared: "I go away and come again unto you."

~ Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 21


There are also traditions to that effect as well... such as:

"The prophets are brothers of different mothers, but their religion is one. Of all men I am the most deserving to be the brother of Jesus Son of Mary, for there was no prophet between me and him."

[Al Hendy, Kanzol 'Ummal, Vol. 17, Hadith No. 1033]

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

[Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 652]

Narrated AbuHurayrah:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace_be_upon_him). ...

[Sunan of Abu Dawud, Book 37, Number 4310]

`I am Adam, I am Seth, I am Noah, I am Abraham, I am Moses, I am Jesus, I am Muhammad, peace be upon him and upon all these brothers of his.'...

recorded in Tazkirat al-Auliya by Farid-ud-Din Attar, and are also found in other reliable works, are on this basis, as he says:

 

[Fool]

In the context of the Baha'i Writings I am stating that ... Yes.

"Every discerning observer will recognize that in the Dispensation of the Qur'án both the Book and the Cause of Jesus were confirmed. As to the matter of names, Muhammad, Himself, declared: "I am Jesus." He recognized the truth of the signs, prophecies, and words of Jesus, and testified that they were all of God. In this sense, neither the person of Jesus nor His writings hath differed from that of Muhammad and of His holy Book, inasmuch as both have championed the Cause of God, uttered His praise, and revealed His commandments. Thus it is that Jesus, Himself, declared: "I go away and come again unto you."

~ Baha'u'llah, Gleanings from the Writings of Baha'u'llah, p. 21


There are also traditions to that effect as well... such as:

"The prophets are brothers of different mothers, but their religion is one. Of all men I am the most deserving to be the brother of Jesus Son of Mary, for there was no prophet between me and him."

[Al Hendy, Kanzol 'Ummal, Vol. 17, Hadith No. 1033]

Narrated Abu Huraira:

Allah's Apostle said, "Both in this world and in the Hereafter, I am the nearest of all the people to Jesus, the son of Mary. The prophets are paternal brothers; their mothers are different, but their religion is one."

[Sahih Al-Bukhari, Volume 4, Book 55, Number 652]

Narrated AbuHurayrah:

The Prophet (peace_be_upon_him) said: There is no prophet between me and him, that is, Jesus (peace_be_upon_him). ...

[Sunan of Abu Dawud, Book 37, Number 4310]

`I am Adam, I am Seth, I am Noah, I am Abraham, I am Moses, I am Jesus, I am Muhammad, peace be upon him and upon all these brothers of his.'...

recorded in Tazkirat al-Auliya by Farid-ud-Din Attar, and are also found in other reliable works, are on this basis, as he says:

i had suspected as much and it makes sense.

Edgar Cayce relates that the Spirit of Jesus was influential in all major religions

 

[arthra]

i had suspected as much and it makes sense.

Edgar Cayce relates that the Spirit of Jesus was influential in all major religions

After the Lord Christ suffered, the disciples wept, and gave way to their grief. They thought that their hopes were shattered, and that the Cause was utterly lost, till Mary Magdalene came to them and strengthened them saying: 'Do you mourn the body of Our Lord or His Spirit? If you mourn His Spirit, you are mistaken, for Jesus lives! His Spirit will never leave us!' Thus through her wisdom and encouragement the Cause of Christ was upheld for all the days to come. Her intuition enabled her to grasp the spiritual fact."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 104

 

[Fool]

After the Lord Christ suffered, the disciples wept, and gave way to their grief. They thought that their hopes were shattered, and that the Cause was utterly lost, till Mary Magdalene came to them and strengthened them saying: 'Do you mourn the body of Our Lord or His Spirit? If you mourn His Spirit, you are mistaken, for Jesus lives! His Spirit will never leave us!' Thus through her wisdom and encouragement the Cause of Christ was upheld for all the days to come. Her intuition enabled her to grasp the spiritual fact."

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Abdu'l-Baha in London, p. 104

jesus wasn't abraham. jesus said before abraham i am. that means he stood before abraham as Melchizedek.

 

[rusra02]

I believe Jesus was a perfect man, equivalent to Adam before he sinned. Thus, Jesus could be a "corresponding ransom for all." (1 Timothy 2:6) Christ is not Adam reincarnated. 1 Corinthians 15:47 explains: "The first man is from the earth and made of dust; the second man is from heaven." I am sure sinner Adam has long ago gone back to the dust, as God promised he would.

 

[Muffled]

So it is written: “The first man Adam became a living being”; the last Adam, a life-giving spirit.


?????

I believe it is so by the meaning of the name: first man. However they are very different spirits within.

 

[Muffled]

Very possible.
I am thinking He may also have been Enoch.
Edgar Cayce said that Jesus lived 30 lifetimes before he was able to fulfill the Law and become a Christ and the firstborn son.
For the average person it takes countless lifetimes.

I believe Cayce was wrong.

 

[Muffled]

Dang it !!!

I believe you should cheer up. We get the Kingdom with one eternal lifetime where God gets it right for us.

 

[Fool]

I believe you should cheer up. We get the Kingdom with one eternal lifetime where God gets it right for us.

it says that man lives once and then the judgment. it doesn't say the Spirit only lives once as a man, or woman.

 

[Fool]

I believe it is so by the meaning of the name: first man. However they are very different spirits within.

so jesus lied when he spoke of john as elijah? same spirit vs two personalities?


reincarnation isn't two personalities existing in two places and times. metempsychosis is the idea of a Spirit existing in two, or more, places and times and eternal.

is the personality eternal?

 

[arthra]

jesus wasn't abraham. jesus said before abraham i am. that means he stood before abraham as Melchizedek.

There's a sense that I agree with you...that is the human personality and specificities of each Prophet is unique... but God is also reflected in Each of Them... hence the "I am"

Actually I think the "I am" was God speaking through Him...

Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: "I am God!" He verily speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His name and His attributes, are made manifest in the world. Thus, He hath revealed: "Those shafts were God's, not 179 Thine!"[1] And also He saith: "In truth, they who plighted fealty unto thee, really plighted that fealty unto God."[2] And were any of them to voice the utterance: "I am the Messenger of God," He also speaketh the truth, the indubitable truth. Even as He saith: "Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but He is the Messenger of God."[3]

(~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 178

 

[Ben Dhyan]

When a disciple truly knows what he is, he is then able know who he is...

1 Corinthians 6:19 Or don't you know that your body is a temple of the Holy Spirit which is in you, which you have from God? You are not your own,

 

[Fool]

There's a sense that I agree with you...that is the human personality and specificities of each Prophet is unique... but God is also reflected in Each of Them... hence the "I am"

Actually I think the "I am" was God speaking through Him...

Were any of the all-embracing Manifestations of God to declare: "I am God!" He verily speaketh the truth, and no doubt attacheth thereto. For it hath been repeatedly demonstrated that through their Revelation, their attributes and names, the Revelation of God, His name and His attributes, are made manifest in the world. Thus, He hath revealed: "Those shafts were God's, not 179 Thine!"[1] And also He saith: "In truth, they who plighted fealty unto thee, really plighted that fealty unto God."[2] And were any of them to voice the utterance: "I am the Messenger of God," He also speaketh the truth, the indubitable truth. Even as He saith: "Muhammad is not the father of any man among you, but He is the Messenger of God."[3]

(~ Baha'u'llah, The Kitab-i-Iqan, p. 178

God is omnipresent in all things. the same Spirit that inhabits us inhabits all things; however i doubt seriously that muhammad was the same spirit as jesus, because jesus wouldn't have identified john the baptist as coming in the "same" spirit as elijah. there is the Spirit and there are spirits. the causal presence is not the same as the etheric body. it is the difference between el and elohim

 

[Sleeppy]

We were, and are all Adam.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

We were, and are all Adam.

Perhaps, but we are not yet post Adam transcended spiritual beings.....

 

[gnostic]

jesus wasn't abraham. jesus said before abraham i am. that means he stood before abraham as Melchizedek.

I have read something, somewhere that Melchizedek was really Shem, son of Noah.

According to my calculations of years in Genesis, Shem was still alive when Abram met Melchizedek, and still alive when Abraham died.

I don't remember where this Shem's identity from. I have been racking my brain to find my sources for the Shem-Melchizedek connection, but I cannot find again.

It could be in one of the texts from the Apocrypha or Pseudepigrapha, or from one of the rabbinic texts, or even in some gnostic texts...

...I simply don't know and I don't remember.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

I have read something, somewhere that Melchizedek was really Shem, son of Adam.

According to my calculations of years in Genesis, Shem was still alive when Abram met Melchizedek, and still alive when Abraham died.

I don't remember where this Shem's identity from. I have been racking my brain to find my sources for the Shem-Melchizedek connection, but I cannot find again.

It could be in one of the texts from the Apocrypha or Pseudepigrapha, or from one of the rabbinic texts, or even in some gnostic texts...

...I simply don't know and I don't remember.

You mean Shem, the son of Noah, a descendant of Adam?

 

[gnostic]

You mean Shem, the son of Noah, a descendant of Adam?

Sorry, you are right. I was tired and it was late, last night.

Yes, son of Noah, not son of Adam. Thanks, ben.

Do you know what text I am talking about, about Shem-Melchizedek connection? I can't remember where I had read it from?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Sorry, you are right. I was tired and it was late, last night.

Yes, son of Noah, not son of Adam. Thanks, ben.

Do you know what text I am talking about, about Shem-Melchizedek connection? I can't read where it from?

The connection is apparently made in the writing Seder ha-Darot by Yechiel Halperinrom ...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melchizedek

"The chronological work Seder ha-Dorot (published 1769) quotes that Melchizedek was the first to initiate and complete a wall in circumference of the city, and had to exit Salem to reach Abram and his men. Upon exiting Salem, he presented to them "bread and wine" with the intent to refresh them from their journey. Following the premise that Melchizedek was indeed Shem, he was 465 years old at the time and Abram was 75 years of age."

 

[gnostic]

The connection is apparently made in the writing Seder ha-Darot by Yechiel Halperinrom ...... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Melchizedek

"The chronological work Seder ha-Dorot (published 1769) quotes that Melchizedek was the first to initiate and complete a wall in circumference of the city, and had to exit Salem to reach Abram and his men. Upon exiting Salem, he presented to them "bread and wine" with the intent to refresh them from their journey. Following the premise that Melchizedek was indeed Shem, he was 465 years old at the time and Abram was 75 years of age."

I don't know if Seder ha-Dorot was the one I read; I don't think it is. But thank you, Ben.

Over the last 10 years or more I read a lot of ancient and medieval works. Neither Shem, nor Melchizedek are really of interests to me, so I don't write them down somewhere. So I sometimes lose track of what I had read, when I've read them, and because I don't take notes, it make untangling the maze of my memory, all the more difficult.

It is Noah who interested me, not his sons, so I don't make any note on Shem for future research.

It is the same with Melchizedek. I would focus on Abraham, that Melchizedek get push aside into background.

I had only brought up Shem because someone (Fool) brought up Jesus, because I have a vague recollection about Shem and Melchizedek.

Not that I really believe Melchizedek is really Shem, mind you. It was merely a suggestion of a connection than a belief of one.