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Was Jesus born on the 25th of December?

TJ73

Active Member
When I identified as Christian I developed a conflict with Christmas. I learned the facts about the birth date, about the festivals of the winter solstice and the way in which those festivals were played out which included a lot of sex and drinking and gift giving. Sounded like a great time for all but not exactly in line with the worship of God. I also listened and gave thought to what the JW's had told me that we were to celebrate the sacrifice of Jesus ( Easter) and not the birth.
I am Muslim now and see things a little differently, but as much as I adore Jesus and Muhammed I would not celebrate there birthdays. I would rather make an effort to learn to know them and what they came to share with the world as often as I can.
 

Julia733

New Member
There is no contemporary historical evidence demonstrating the date of Jesus' birth. The common Gregorian calendar method for numbering years, in which the current year is 2010, is based on an early medieval attempt to count the years from a point of reference — namely, Jesus' birth — which Dionysius Exiguus placed, either mistakenly or intentionally, sometime between 2 BC/BCE and 1 AD/CE. The Gospel of Matthew states Jesus' birth occurred during the reign of Herod the Great, who died in 4 BC/BCE, but also with the intimation that Jesus may have been as much as two years old when Herod ordered the Massacre of the Innocents, and therefore that he may have been even older at the time of Herod's death. The Gospel of Luke similarly points to Jesus' birth as having occurred during the reign of Herod the Great (i.e., sometime between 37 and 4 BC/BCE), but the author of Luke also describes the birth as taking place during the first census of the Roman provinces of Syria and Iudaea, which is generally believed to have occurred in 6 AD/CE. Most scholars generally assume a date of birth between 6 and 4 BC/BCE. Other scholars assume that Jesus was born sometime between 7—2 BC/BCE and died sometime between 26—36 AD/CE.
Christmas or Christmas Day is a holiday observed mostly on December 25 to commemorate the birth of Jesus. The earliest evidence of celebration of Jesus' birth on December 25 is found in the year 354 in Rome. It was only later that the December 25 celebration was adopted in the East, with the exception of Armenia, where his birth is celebrated on January 6. Indeed, there is no month of the year to which respectable authorities have not assigned his birth.
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
Many people believe that the date of Jesus' birth is the 25th of December.
In this day and age, I don't think that any more than a tiny minority of people believe this. I personally don't and I don't know of a living soul who does.

Welcome to the forum, by the way!
 

Katzpur

Not your average Mormon
...true christians refrain from celebrating christmas, because of its origin.
Jeesh! Thanks for the insult, "true christian." (By the way, I suggest you read the forum rules since you're breaking them every time you post.)
 
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Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Christmas day, is the day we celebrate mass in honour of his birth.
many of us at midnight 24/25.

Thousands of scholars have tried to establish the dates of all the important events in his life. But there is insufficient evidence to work with.

The Entire Christian calendar is representative not factual.
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Is there any evidence that Jesus did not celebrate his birth day? He would certainly have celebrated his coming of age, which is a multiple of it. ( His Bar Mitzvah ) It would of course have been measured by the Jewish calendar.
 

DavyCrocket2003

Well-Known Member
I heard a presentation in Salt Lake by this really cool expert on ancient religious astronomy/astrology. He is certain that Christ was born on April 5. This really surprised me because the LDS church teaches that he was born on April 6. I thought it was cool. (In fact, his whole body of work seemed interesting. He has matched up the map of earth, with the map of the starry heavens and studies the relationships between the earth and the stars. For instance, the great pyramid matches up with Sirius, and the Amazon temple to Aramis of Ephesis matches with the amazon star. It is really really cool. He has written books like Christian Hermetic Astrology: The Star of the Magi and the Life of Christ and The Astrological Revolution. I was extremely impressed.)

P.S. He called this matching of a map of the earth, with a map of the heavens Astrogeographia.
 
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dallas1125

Covert Operative
I heard a presentation in Salt Lake by this really cool expert on ancient religious astronomy/astrology. He is certain that Christ was born on April 5. This really surprised me because the LDS church teaches that he was born on April 6. I thought it was cool. (In fact, his whole body of work seemed interesting. He has matched up the map of earth, with the map of the starry heavens and studies the relationships between the earth and the stars. For instance, the great pyramid matches up with Sirius, and the Amazon temple to Aramis of Ephesis matches with the amazon star. It is really really cool. He has written books like Christian Hermetic Astrology: The Star of the Magi and the Life of Christ and The Astrological Revolution. I was extremely impressed.)

P.S. He called this matching of a map of the earth, with a map of the heavens Astrogeographia.
Hmmm...that is extremley interesting...thanks for sharing!
 
I heard once that Jesus was actually born in August. It was pagan Rome that celebrated a feast called Saturnalia that was from a myth of a mother goddess giving birth to a sun god. It had to do with myths surrounding Mithras, a middle eastern god of war associated with fire and the sun that was very popular in the Roman army. In Celtic pagan countries they had stories about goddesses giving birth on the winter solstice. Holly was long used as a decoration in pagan times. Mistletoe was used by the druids, today people kiss under a bunch of mistletoe, but at first only the lower servant classes did this. The Christmas tree is very pagan. In ancient middle east the assyrians and Babylonians the idol worshipers that led the Israelites astray cut down evergreen trees and decorated them colorful ribbons. THis was done in celebration of Ishtar and Tammuz, a story of how the fertility goddess Ishtar went to visit her sister Ereshkagel the goddess of death in the underworld where Ereshkagel ruled and when Ishtar got there she was killed and held captive in the underworld. Ishtar's handmaid and loyal servants prayed for her safe return, but what did her lover Tammuz do? He sat on her throne and partied, celebrated Ishtar's death. Ishtar was able to return to the world of the living if she could find someone to take her place in the underworld. SHe came back and saw Tammuz sitting on her throne, pointed at him and said he would replace her in the underworld. Tammuz tried to run away from the demons sent to catch him, but they caught him and dragged him off to the land of the dead. Tammuz mother and sister mourned for him. Eventually Ishtar got over being angry and mounred for him as well. Then it was agreed that Tammuz would spent part of the year in the underworld, his sister would spend another part of the year, and Ishtar would spend the final part of the year, taking turns. THere would be holidays whenever one of them had their time up and returned to the living world. THe evergreen was believed to represent Tammuz, and ribbons on it bandages. There is another goddess, Cybele the great mother goddess, who also had a lover. His name was Attis, he became her priest. Attis was tempted by a nymph, CYbele became angry and cast a fit of madness on him, when he castrated himself against a pine tree. Attist died from his wounds, the pine tree was stained in blood. So, a pine tree wrapped in bandadges was a symbol of Attis great love for Cybele.

Have you ever heaard the song or child's game: "Pattycake?" Well patty cakes were originally goddess cakes. In the bible it speaks of treacherous families, formerly God-fearing Hebrews/Israelites who worshiped Jehovah alone, falling into temptation of the pagan idol worship of their polytheistic pagan neighbors that worshiped false idol gods, and even sacrificed their own children sometimes to these false dmonic gods. THe children would get involved in the worship of these foreign idol goddesses. THe goddesses may seem harmless on the outside, as if they are gentle mother goddesses that protect hearth and home and aid women in child birth, but then there are the harlot goddesses of ritual prostitution, the cruel war goddesses who seduce and tempt men to go into battle for her and is just as violent and bloodthirsty as a male warrior, the goddesses must have given pagan women a sense of empowerment but it was fake, because these goddesses in the myths had soap opera stories of being dominated by the male gods, of doing shameful, evil, deceitful, violent cruel and treacherous things to get the upper hand. Anyway, the children, women and men would all be involved in baking little cakes to the "Queen of Heaven" which would be Ishtar. THey would prick it and mark it on top with a special symbol of the goddess.
 

DavyCrocket2003

Well-Known Member
I heard a presentation in Salt Lake by this really cool expert on ancient religious astronomy/astrology. He is certain that Christ was born on April 5. This really surprised me because the LDS church teaches that he was born on April 6. I thought it was cool. (In fact, his whole body of work seemed interesting. He has matched up the map of earth, with the map of the starry heavens and studies the relationships between the earth and the stars. For instance, the great pyramid matches up with Sirius, and the Amazon temple to Aramis of Ephesis matches with the amazon star. It is really really cool. He has written books like Christian Hermetic Astrology: The Star of the Magi and the Life of Christ and The Astrological Revolution. I was extremely impressed.)

P.S. He called this matching of a map of the earth, with a map of the heavens Astrogeographia.
Haha. Sorry, just realized I didn't even mention his name... It's Robert Powell. Click on his name for a biographical sketch and short explanation of his work and research.
 

wilsoncole

Active Member
Is there any evidence that Jesus did not celebrate his birth day? He would certainly have celebrated his coming of age, which is a multiple of it. ( His Bar Mitzvah ) It would of course have been measured by the Jewish calendar.

The history of birthday celebrations reveals the demonic influence behind the celebration:
"The Greeks believed that everyone had a protective spirit or daemon who attended his birth and watched over him in life. This spirit had a mystic relation with the (idol) god on whose birthday the individual was born. The Romans also subscribed to this idea. . . . This notion was carried down in human belief and is reflected in the guardian angel, the fairy godmother and the patron saint. . . . The custom of lighted candles on the cakes started with the Greeks. . . . Honey cakes round as the moon and lit with tapers were placed on the temple altars of [Artemis]. . . .

Birthday candles, in folk belief, are endowed with special magic for granting wishes. . . . Lighted tapers and sacrificial fires have had a special mystic significance ever since man first set up altars to his gods. The birthday candles are thus an honor and tribute to the birthday child and bring good fortune. . . . Birthday greetings and wishes for happiness are an intrinsic part of this holiday. . . . Originally the idea was rooted in magic. . . . Birthday greetings have power for good or ill because one is closer to the spirit world on this day."—(The Lore of Birthdays (New York, 1952), Ralph and Adelin Linton, pp. 8, 18-20)

"The notion of a birthday festival was far from the ideas of the Christians of this period in general."—The History of the Christian Religion and Church, During the Three First Centuries (New York, 1848), Augustus Neander (translated by Henry John Rose, p. 190)

Bible believers recognize that "honor and tribute" belongs only to their Creator. Idolatry involves giving that honor and tribute to someone or something else.

"The later Hebrews looked on the celebration of birthdays as a part of idolatrous worship, a view which would be abundantly confirmed by what they saw of the common observances associated with these days."—(The Imperial Bible-Dictionary (London, 1874), edited by Patrick Fairbairn, Vol. I, p. 225) (Reasoning p.69)

Jesus Christ lived by the Mosaic Law. There is no commandment to celebrate any birthday nor any "coming of age."
This would preclude his celebrating of his birthday.
The Bar-Mitzvah is an essential Jewish ritual, which literally means "son of the commandment," a "term denoting both the attainment of religious and legal maturity as well as the occasion at which this status is formally assumed for boys at the age of 13 plus one day." It became a Jewish custom only in the 15th century C.E.— (Encyclopaedia Judaica)

The practice of true religion excludes the mixing of it with falsehood.
Compromise will never work.

"For what fellowship do righteousness and lawlessness have? Or what sharing does light have with darkness? Further, what harmony is there between Christ and Be´li·al? Or what portion does a faithful person have with an unbeliever? And what agreement does God’s temple have with idols?" (2 Corinthians 6:14-16)

"Therefore, my beloved ones, flee from idolatry."—1 Cor. 10:14; 1 Thess. 1:9.
 
What's wrong with lighting candles and giving gifts? I thought the Jews used candlesticks, there's the menorah. Who cares if Christmas traditions are really pagan? It's fun! I like decorating a tree and decorating my house for Christmas, singing Christmas carols, drawing Christmas cards, etc... I can understand why decorating a tree and wreaths could be considered pagan, so could lighting candles. I never hang up mistletoe. I never drink alcohol or smoke. I don't have pre-marital sex either. The only drugs I use are prescribed by a doctor for my health, I take them like I am suppose to. I do have problems and faults though, I am not perfect, I am mainly guilty of being lazy and sleeping too much. I like Christmas. Christmas movies are fun. I like drawing Christmas stuff. Drawing Christmas angels is fun. I like Victorian Christmas stuff, especially art, cards with Victorian Christmas pictures.
 

jimdand

New Member
Classical history is not sure of the Month that Jesus was born. As most posts suggest --- NO, it was not December 25th.

jimdand
 

jimdand

New Member
There is nothing wrong with celebrating Chirstmas, on Dec 25th, as most of us know it.

The only problem is that most classical historians are in disagreement as to just when Christ was born. That will, forever, remain an unanswered question.

However, cling to Christmas day, as you and I know it --- and enjoy.

jimdand
 
Christ was born around the time of the passover, in the spring. I've never heard of cattle grazin gin the winter time or of a baby syaing outside in a manger during the cold winter month. Let alone Jesus Christ.

John 8:32
 

james2ko

Well-Known Member
Christ was born around the time of the passover, in the spring. I've never heard of cattle grazin gin the winter time or of a baby syaing outside in a manger during the cold winter month. Let alone Jesus Christ.

John 8:32

A careful reading of scripture reveals otherwise..see biblical evidence here.
 

Maury83

Member
Carzpur! what are you talking about?? This forum is for discussion and sharing of opinions. My comments are purely for discussion only and not aimed at offending anyone. If you feel offended easily perhaps you should reconsider your account. Let's not hide behind inexistant rules shall we?
 
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