Was Jesus' death suicide?

[BUDDY]

I heard this theory from a friend of mine who is a non-theist and I had never heard such thing before. He claims that Jesus death was suicide. The explanation is that Jesus had professed to have the power to control all of nature, including man. So, by allowing man to take Him and kill Him, when he had the power to prevent His own death, He was in a sense committing a kind of suicide. He equated it to some mentally disturbed individual turning an unloaded weapon on police officers and committing suicide by policeman, if you have ever heard of that. So, what do you think?

Did Jesus commit a type of suicide?

 

[Karl R]

During the Salem witch trials, a number of people were found guilty and hung as witches. Any one of them could have avoided death by confessing their guilt and publicly repenting. They were not willing to do that. They were not suicidal, but they had principles that they valued more than their lives.

I'm quite certain that no psychological standard would consider this behavior to be suicide.

 

[dawny0826]

If Christ actually crucified Himself to the cross...perhaps...

He didn't...therefore, he WAS indeed a sacrifice.

 

[CaptainXeroid]

During the Salem witch trials, a number of people were found guilty and hung as witches. Any one of them could have avoided death by confessing their guilt and publicly repenting. They were not willing to do that. They were not suicidal, but they had principles that they valued more than their lives.

I'm quite certain that no psychological standard would consider this behavior to be suicide.

What he said. Frubals to you for stating it better than I was thinking it and posting it first.

Jesus' death was a sacrifice, like dawny said, not an empty death that a suicide would have been.

 

[De Otro Lado]

If Christ actually crucified Himself to the cross...perhaps...

He didn't...therefore, he WAS indeed a sacrifice.

If Christ was a sacrifice, would this make human sacrifices acceptable?:bonk:

 

[dawny0826]

If Christ was a sacrifice, would this make human sacrifices acceptable?:bonk:

Christ was the ULTIMATE sacrifice...so that man no longer had to sacrifice (animals) for forgiveness of sins.

 

[De Otro Lado]

What about pre-sacrifice human sacrifices?

 

[Ðanisty]

During the Salem witch trials, a number of people were found guilty and hung as witches. Any one of them could have avoided death by confessing their guilt and publicly repenting. They were not willing to do that. They were not suicidal, but they had principles that they valued more than their lives.

It's nice to think that's the case, but that's not really how the witch-hunts worked. No manner of confession would have saved them.

If Christ actually crucified Himself to the cross...perhaps...

That's not the kind of suicide we're talking about. We're discussing something akin to a criminal pulling a gun on a police officer to get the police officer to kill them.

Jesus' death was a sacrifice, like dawny said, not an empty death that a suicide would have been.

Suicide is not considered an empty death in all cultures. For some cultures it is considered more honorable to kill oneself than to suffer disgrace by letting the enemy do you in.

 

[dawny0826]

What about pre-sacrifice human sacrifices?

When God established his covenant with man...he instructed man to sacrifice different animals. Any pre-sacrifice human sacrifices, to the best of my knowledge were not God ordained.

 

[dawny0826]

It's nice to think that's the case, but that's not really how the witch-hunts worked. No manner of confession would have saved them.

That's not the kind of suicide we're talking about. We're discussing something akin to a criminal pulling a gun on a police officer to get the police officer to kill them.

Suicide is not considered an empty death in all cultures. For some cultures it is considered more honorable to kill oneself than to suffer disgrace by letting the enemy do you in.

Hi Danisty.

I was responsding to this...

So, by allowing man to take Him and kill Him, when he had the power to prevent His own death, He was in a sense committing a kind of suicide

I agree with you in reference to the witch hunts. They were "damned" either way, if they were accused of witchcraft.

 

[BUDDY]

Please bear with me as I am only playing devils advocate here.

Christ was, according to by beliefs, punished and put to death unjustly. He was tortured and hung on the cross. While he did not do it himself, he did allow himself to be killed. This is the issue at hand. Is allowing oneself to be killed(the supposition being that you have the power to control it or stop it) equal to suicide? If you have the power to stop an unjust thing from happening to you, and yet you choose to let it happen anyway, is this not a form of suicide or at least carry similar psychological processes of the suicidal person?

I don't believe so, but I will let the conversation sontinue before I say why.

 

[Quiddity]

I heard this theory from a friend of mine who is a non-theist and I had never heard such thing before. He claims that Jesus death was suicide. The explanation is that Jesus had professed to have the power to control all of nature, including man. So, by allowing man to take Him and kill Him, when he had the power to prevent His own death, He was in a sense committing a kind of suicide. He equated it to some mentally disturbed individual turning an unloaded weapon on police officers and committing suicide by policeman, if you have ever heard of that. So, what do you think?

Did Jesus commit a type of suicide?

I don't know many mentally disturbed that talk in such a manner and can pull off the ressurection.

 

[CAPPA]

I believe that a death of a human in any aspects is wrong, regardless of the fact that his ten commandments say's it's wrong also, whether it was to fulfill scripture, or to make a point, he let man crucify him. If you think about it, how can the sins of man be cleansed, by committing a sin to do so? As I believe, much of what is written in the bible is meant to be taken figuratively and not literally.

 

[FFH]

Jesus Christ did not slay himself, but was slain.

1 Nephi 11: 13

"And I, Nephi, say that he was lifted up upon the cross and slain for the sins of the world."

3 Nephi 11: 14

"Arise and come forth unto me, that ye may thrust your hands into my side, and also that ye may feel the prints of the nails in my hands and in my feet, that ye may know that I am the God of Isael, and the God of the whole earth, and have been slain for the sins of the world."

Jesus Christ allowed men of this wolrd to slay him. He was a willing sacrifice for sin. He was a perfect example of love towards those that hated him. His willingness to be nailled to a cross, in spite of the fact that he could have prevented it, is proof of his love of all men.

 

[Faint]

Actually, Buddy, your friend made a very good point. If you believe in this story, then Christ was a human with superpowers who essentially allowed himself to be killed. If a man has the ability to avert his own death, yet he does nothing about it, then yes he is responsible for his own predicament. Thus it is a form of suicide. That's obvious. It doesn't matter if he didn't nail himself to the wood--he LET others do it.

As for the resurrection and the whole "he died for our sins" thing, his death becomes rather meaningless since it didn't last. Not much of a sacrifice is it? "Oh, I died for a couple days to save humans"--that's nothing. Seems to me a real martyr would stay dead, thus giving the death significance.

 

[CAPPA]

Actually, Buddy, your friend made a very good point. If you believe in this story, then Christ was a human with superpowers who essentially allowed himself to be killed. If a man has the ability to avert his own death, yet he does nothing about it, then yes he is responsible for his own predicament. Thus it is a form of suicide. That's obvious. It doesn't matter if he didn't nail himself to the wood--he LET others do it.

As for the resurrection and the whole "he died for our sins" thing, his death becomes rather meaningless since it didn't last. Not much of a sacrifice is it? "Oh, I died for a couple days to save humans"--that's nothing. Seems to me a real martyr would stay dead, thus giving the death significance.

:clap

 

[Quiddity]

Actually, Buddy, your friend made a very good point. If you believe in this story, then Christ was a human with superpowers who essentially allowed himself to be killed. If a man has the ability to avert his own death, yet he does nothing about it, then yes he is responsible for his own predicament. Thus it is a form of suicide. That's obvious. It doesn't matter if he didn't nail himself to the wood--he LET others do it.

As for the resurrection and the whole "he died for our sins" thing, his death becomes rather meaningless since it didn't last. Not much of a sacrifice is it? "Oh, I died for a couple days to save humans"--that's nothing. Seems to me a real martyr would stay dead, thus giving the death significance.

That is why we don't see him as a martyr. He would be no different then the rest if he stayed dead. Maybe you find it more significant that someone stays dead, but not me. Someone alive is much more cool.

 

[FFH]

Actually, Buddy, your friend made a very good point. If you believe in this story, then Christ was a human with superpowers who essentially allowed himself to be killed. If a man has the ability to avert his own death, yet he does nothing about it, then yes he is responsible for his own predicament. Thus it is a form of suicide. That's obvious. It doesn't matter if he didn't nail himself to the wood--he LET others do it.

As for the resurrection and the whole "he died for our sins" thing, his death becomes rather meaningless since it didn't last. Not much of a sacrifice is it? "Oh, I died for a couple days to save humans"--that's nothing. Seems to me a real martyr would stay dead, thus giving the death significance.

I guess you have experienced little pain in your life.

The pain that Jesus Christ went through was also part of the sacrifice. He also gave up his life on earth, and avoided all sin in order to be a pure sacrifice for us all. How many of us would be willing to give up our lives and the sins that we love so much.

 

[Faint]

I guess you have experienced little pain in your life.

What does that have to do with anything?

The pain that Jesus Christ went through was also part of the sacrifice. He also gave up his life on earth, and avoided all sin in order to be a pure sacrifice for us all. How many of us would be willing to give up our lives and the sins that we love so much.

I was saying that the sacrifice seems to have less value if the guy didn't stay dead. Besides, The pain in the story doesn't seem to be enough to cover all the sins of humanity then, now , and for the future. I imagine that the level of torture and suffering for such a blood payment would have to last for several millenia. Others have gone through worse. Prometheus for example.

That is why we don't see him as a martyr. He would be no different then the rest if he stayed dead. Maybe you find it more significant that someone stays dead, but not me.

No, you're right this time. It is more interesting when people don't stay dead. I love zombie movies. "The Passion" was a pretty good one.

 

[Quiddity]

No, you're right this time. It is more interesting when people don't stay dead. I love zombie movies. "The Passion" was a pretty good one.

Alright Faint, you can disagree with me all you want but I do find what you said offensive.