Was Jonah dead in the belly of the fish/whale?

[paarsurrey]

Jonah was not dead in the belly of the fish; rather, the 3 days spent in the belly of the fish represent death in the form of the new moon.

I don't get you exactly. Please elaborate.

Regards

 

[Parsimony]

Seems like anyone in the stomach of a whale (or fish) would suffocate pretty quickly without some form of divine assistance. That's not to say that they wouldn't have time to pray before losing consciousness. I'm curious as to the identity of the fish/whale in question. It would need to be capable of swallowing a human whole. My best guess would be a sperm whale, given that they can eat something as large as a giant squid and don't chew their food. A quick search seems to indicate they are native to the Mediterranean Sea as well. Although baleen whales have very large mouths, I've read that they have very narrow throats. Probably couldn't swallow a human.

 

[psychoslice]

For me the story of Jonah is just that, a story, the three days in the belly, is like the three days in the tomb when Jesus was said to die. Its just a number, like the number seven in the bible, usually meaning a rest in God, of course it didn't happen, but its a good little metaphor.

 

[Harikrish]

Straight from the Apologetic Press.

More Americans are moving toward an interpretation of the Bible as a book of fables, history, and moral precepts. ...Attempts at demythologizing the Bible that have been ongoing in the academy for years seem to be moving more and more from the classroom to the pews.... As recently as 1963, two persons in three viewed the Bible as the actual word of God, to be taken literally, word for word. Today, only one person in three still holds to that interpretation (1999, p. 36).

 

[ChristineES]

The story doesn't say it's a whale, it says it was a big fish. We can think of it in more than one way:
1. He was actually swallowed by a big fish and vomitted on the shore 3 days later.
2. Being swallowed was an allegorical element meaning he was spiritually dead.
3. The whole story was an allegory.

 

[Katzpur]

I don’t think so.

I don't think so either.

 

[paarsurrey]

The story doesn't say it's a whale, it says it was a big fish. We can think of it in more than one way:
1. He was actually swallowed by a big fish and vomitted on the shore 3 days later.
2. Being swallowed was an allegorical element meaning he was spiritually dead.
3. The whole story was an allegory.

Quran does not mention the duration Jonah was in the belly of the fish.

Torah mentioned the duration of three days and Gospels copied the period from Torah but finds it impossible to account for the period for Jesus in the tomb.

Regards

 

[JayJayDee]

100% mythology with no historical core at all in reality.

Unless of course a Creator exists who can mess with the natural laws and make them yield to his command. In that case the familiar story of Jonah in the belly of the fish could serve as a description of Jesus in the tomb. Jonah was alive but confined to that fish for three days but with Jesus, even though was not alive, the illustrative value of Jonah's experience taught the Jews something about his death.....indicating that he was confined in the tomb and did not go anywhere for the entire time he was in there.

The truthfulness of the Bible and whether or not a Creator exists who can do what we might describe as 'the impossible', does not depend upon your belief or disbelief in him. You knew that of course.

 

[paarsurrey]

Unless of course a Creator exists who can mess with the natural laws and make them yield to his command. In that case the familiar story of Jonah in the belly of the fish could serve as a description of Jesus in the tomb. Jonah was alive but confined to that fish for three days but with Jesus, even though was not alive, the illustrative value of Jonah's experience taught the Jews something about his death.....indicating that he was confined in the tomb and did not go anywhere for the entire time he was in there.

The truthfulness of the Bible and whether or not a Creator exists who can do what we might describe as 'the impossible', does not depend upon your belief or disbelief in him. You knew that of course.

The duration of three days in the belly of the fish was mentioned by Torah in the book of Jonah.
Gospels copied it from Torah.
It neither proves that Jonah was alive for three days in the belly of the fish nor proves that Jesus was for three days in the tomb.

Regards

 

[JayJayDee]

The duration of three days in the belly of the fish was mentioned by Torah in the book of Jonah.

Of course. Why else would Jesus use it as a reference?

Gospels copied it from Torah.
It neither proves that Jonah was alive for three days in the belly of the fish nor proves that Jesus was for three days in the tomb.

Regards

Define "proves"? How much of the Bible is accepted because of "proof" and how much is accepted because of faith"? Which does God require? (Heb 11:6)

If the scriptures say that Jonah was in the belly of the fish and survived, then we take that on faith because he lived to write about it and even included his own defiance and the tantrum he threw over the bottle gourd plant.

If Jesus used Jonah's example as a real life event, then who are we to question it? Jonah was confined in the belly of the fish, just as Jesus was confined in his tomb for three days. How can anyone ask for "proof" of such things?

Everything written in the Bible is for our education....not in the way man views education but in how God views it. Whereas academia demands proof, we operate by faith, even if we look like fools to the intellectuals. (1 Cor 1:26-29)

 

[outhouse]

Unless of course a Creator exists who can mess with the natural laws and make them yield to his command.

That methodology is fanaticism and fundamentalism, it is not a credible method of research while looking into said topic.


To date, no such type of "messed" natural law like that has ever taken place, at any time, any where, ever.

The truthfulness of the Bible

What about the errors, rhetoric, mythology and pseudo history?

Some areas of the bible are true, and others are factually not true.

a Creator exists

To date, that is 100% mythology and has no basis in reality at this time.

does not depend upon your belief

Your using your imagination while making unsubstantiated what if's.

I tend to follow and study what is known in reality, and what is also known as straight up mythology.

 

[paarsurrey]

Of course. Why else would Jesus use it as a reference?



Define "proves"? How much of the Bible is accepted because of "proof" and how much is accepted because of faith"? Which does God require? (Heb 11:6)

If the scriptures say that Jonah was in the belly of the fish and survived, then we take that on faith because he lived to write about it and even included his own defiance and the tantrum he threw over the bottle gourd plant.

If Jesus used Jonah's example as a real life event, then who are we to question it? Jonah was confined in the belly of the fish, just as Jesus was confined in his tomb for three days. How can anyone ask for "proof" of such things?

Everything written in the Bible is for our education....not in the way man views education but in how God views it. Whereas academia demands proof, we operate by faith, even if we look like fools to the intellectuals. (1 Cor 1:26-29)

we take that on faith

Faith must be based on reason otherwise it is blind-faith. Jesus had got nothing to do with such faith.

Regards

 

[JayJayDee]

Faith must be based on reason otherwise it is blind-faith. Jesus had got nothing to do with such faith.

Regards

If one is a Christian, then Jesus lays the foundation for our faith...he is our prophet, the one through whom God spoke. Muslims accept him as a prophet too, but most Jews still reject him.

If faith were purely based on reason then everyone's faith would be different, based on their own reasoning.....this is not what God's worshippers are told to do, either in ancient Israel, Islam or in Christianity. We all accept the writings of Holy Scripture as a basis for our beliefs, but we also rely on humans to interpret scripture for us. No one is free to form their own religion based upon what they choose to believe....and yet what do we see in the world? Just that, especially so in Christianity, though Judaism and Islam still have their sectarian differences. So we are left with not only "what" to believe but "who".

To Christians, the apostle Paul wrote....

"11 For the Scripture says: “None that rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for there is the same Lord over all, who is rich to all those calling upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: “How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”
16 Nevertheless, they did not all obey the good news. For Isaiah says: “Jehovah, who put faith in the thing heard from us?” 17 So faith follows the thing heard. In turn the thing heard is through the word about Christ. 18 Nevertheless I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, “into all the earth their sound went out, and to the extremities of the inhabited earth their utterances.” (Rom 10:11-18)

So again, in all the world Christ has sent his disciples out to declare the "good news" about his kingdom........but who are listening? (Matt 24:14; 36-39)

This is how I discern who today are doing the will of the Father.....they are the ones who are actively preaching "in all the inhabited earth." They are not just giving lip service to the kingdom, but are active advocates and preachers about it. They actually know what the Kingdom of God is. :yes:

 

[Skwim]

Faith must be based on reason otherwise it is blind-faith. Jesus had got nothing to do with such faith.

Regards

Is that what he said, "I have nothing to do with blind faith"? Got a chapter and verse for this one? Thanks.

 

[paarsurrey]

Is that what he said, "I have nothing to do with blind faith"? Got a chapter and verse for this one? Thanks.

There are innumerable places where Quran mentions it, I quote from one such place:

The Holy Quran : Chapter 17: Bani Isra'il

[17:36] And give full measure when you measure, and weigh with a right balance; that is best and most commendable in the end.
[17:37] And follow not that of which thou hast no knowledge. Verily, the ear and the eye and the heart — all these shall be called to account.
[17:38] And walk not in the earth haughtily, for thou canst not rend the earth, nor canst thou reach the mountains in height.
[17:39] The evil of all these is hateful in the sight of thy Lord.
[17:40] This is part of that wisdom which thy Lord has revealed to thee. And set not up with Allah any other God, lest thou be cast into Hell, condemned and rejected.

The Holy Quran Arabic text with Translation in English text and Search Engine - Al Islam Online

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

If one is a Christian, then Jesus lays the foundation for our faith...he is our prophet, the one through whom God spoke. Muslims accept him as a prophet too, but most Jews still reject him.

If faith were purely based on reason then everyone's faith would be different, based on their own reasoning.....this is not what God's worshippers are told to do, either in ancient Israel, Islam or in Christianity. We all accept the writings of Holy Scripture as a basis for our beliefs, but we also rely on humans to interpret scripture for us. No one is free to form their own religion based upon what they choose to believe....and yet what do we see in the world? Just that, especially so in Christianity, though Judaism and Islam still have their sectarian differences. So we are left with not only "what" to believe but "who".

To Christians, the apostle Paul wrote....

"11 For the Scripture says: “None that rests his faith on him will be disappointed.” 12 For there is no distinction between Jew and Greek, for there is the same Lord over all, who is rich to all those calling upon him. 13 For “everyone who calls on the name of Jehovah will be saved.” 14 However, how will they call on him in whom they have not put faith? How, in turn, will they put faith in him of whom they have not heard? How, in turn, will they hear without someone to preach? 15 How, in turn, will they preach unless they have been sent forth? Just as it is written: “How comely are the feet of those who declare good news of good things!”
16 Nevertheless, they did not all obey the good news. For Isaiah says: “Jehovah, who put faith in the thing heard from us?” 17 So faith follows the thing heard. In turn the thing heard is through the word about Christ. 18 Nevertheless I ask, They did not fail to hear, did they? Why, in fact, “into all the earth their sound went out, and to the extremities of the inhabited earth their utterances.” (Rom 10:11-18)

So again, in all the world Christ has sent his disciples out to declare the "good news" about his kingdom........but who are listening? (Matt 24:14; 36-39)

This is how I discern who today are doing the will of the Father.....they are the ones who are actively preaching "in all the inhabited earth." They are not just giving lip service to the kingdom, but are active advocates and preachers about it. They actually know what the Kingdom of God is. :yes:

If faith were purely based on reason then everyone's faith would be different, based on their own reasoning.

I never said that faith is only based on reason. Reason of itself is blind. Revelation assisted/supported with reason is the real faith , else it is untruthful or just a myth.

Regards

 

[Renji]

I don’t think so.
Your thoughts, please.
Everybody is welcome believing in a religion or not.
Regards

Whale's belly is full of HCL. It's impossible to live in there for three days, unless Jonah wears something like an Iron Man suit of course.

 

[paarsurrey]

Whale's belly is full of HCL. It's impossible to live in there for three days, unless Jonah wears something like an Iron Man suit of course.

Quran does not mention "3 days" duration. Torah and Gospels mention it, so your comments relate to them to reply.

Regards