• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

Was Paul a legitimate apostle?

Triumph

FREEDOM OF SPEECH
Paul does not lie, nor does he ever need to. He was arguably the greatest Apostle of them all.
If he recounts a story with conflicting details in one version, as opposed to another, then he is referring to two different contexts, or it's a scribal error of some sort. Paul met Jesus and it changed his life - once an assassin of the believers, to becoming the most zealous, steadfast, selfless, loving and powerful Apostle of them all.
Paul even admits he lies, why do you not hear his words? The true church is not inferior because there are no lies in the doctrine of Jesus. Lies are always inferior to truth and the true church that the Apostles upheld called Paul's church, "inferior" and Paul a "sinner" because of Paul's lies to "glorify God".
Romans 3:7
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through >>>my lie<<< unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?"
So Paul believes in a God but also believes he can lie about God to make God appear more glorious to attract followers and Paul thinks there is nothing wrong with that.
Jesus did not select Paul, a man that wants him dead, Paul just said he did, and Paul has no one that has anything to say to support Paul's claims of seeing Jesus in the desert. Paul has zero witnesses because to be a witness a person must testify to what happened and no one did. All we have is what Paul, a liar, said. That Paul is an Apostle is Paul's lie he uses to preach "God".
Jesus told the temple priests that if they want to kill Jesus then they do not love God or Jesus and are not the people of God. Pharisee Paul wanted Jesus dead then and Paul still wants Jesus dead because he uses the name of Jesus for Paul's false doctrine that God wanted Jesus dead. The Jewish High Priest wanted Jesus dead, not God.

The light of Jesus gives sight to people that believe in him, it does not blind them. But Paul was blinded by the light.
That is a huge clue from God that Paul is blind to truth and just plans on using the reputation of Jesus to create a profession with Paul in charge creating a religion to be what Paul wants it to be not what God wants it to be.
Matthew 20:34
So Jesus had compassion on them, and touched their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him."
But if Jesus perceives the heart of a person is evil, Jesus will not give them sight as explained by a prophet,
John 12:40
"He hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
Also note ....."the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 43For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God."
Paul calls himself an Apostle but loves his status of Pharisee so much he also calls himself a Pharisee in the synagogue not claiming to be a Christian or an Apostle.
A man cannot be both an Apostle and a Pharisee at the same time because they are different religions with different beliefs and Jesus said do not mix them. Yet Paul claims he is both and does mix the gospels claiming to be a Pharisee around Jews but an Apostle around Gentiles and Christians. Paul wants people to believe he converted but he did not.
Jesus taught no man is a God and only God is the Father of us all.
Paul taught that Abraham is the father of us all.
Those are not the same gospel and are completely opposite doctrine.
 

Hawkins

Well-Known Member
Acts 1 clearly states the simple qualifications for apostleship, which would have permanently excluded Paul. In spite of that, he later became the 13th (or 14th, depending on semantics) apostle based on the Damascus Road story. Countless people throughout the years have claimed to have similar visions and divine appointments, but somehow his was taken seriously. Was that because it was legitimate, or did he just have lucky timing? If it was legitimate, why did he later have so much strife with the original apostles?

The 12 are chosen eyewitnesses for the recording of Jesus' deeds and speeches. They don't need to be at a highly theoretical level. Paul is a prophet type of character called supernaturally as all OT prophets are. His job is to lay a theoretical foundation for Christianity.
 

DNB

Christian
Paul even admits he lies, why do you not hear his words? The true church is not inferior because there are no lies in the doctrine of Jesus. Lies are always inferior to truth and the true church that the Apostles upheld called Paul's church, "inferior" and Paul a "sinner" because of Paul's lies to "glorify God".
Romans 3:7
For if the truth of God hath more abounded through >>>my lie<<< unto his glory; why yet am I also judged as a sinner?"
So Paul believes in a God but also believes he can lie about God to make God appear more glorious to attract followers and Paul thinks there is nothing wrong with that.
Jesus did not select Paul, a man that wants him dead, Paul just said he did, and Paul has no one that has anything to say to support Paul's claims of seeing Jesus in the desert. Paul has zero witnesses because to be a witness a person must testify to what happened and no one did. All we have is what Paul, a liar, said. That Paul is an Apostle is Paul's lie he uses to preach "God".
Jesus told the temple priests that if they want to kill Jesus then they do not love God or Jesus and are not the people of God. Pharisee Paul wanted Jesus dead then and Paul still wants Jesus dead because he uses the name of Jesus for Paul's false doctrine that God wanted Jesus dead. The Jewish High Priest wanted Jesus dead, not God.

The light of Jesus gives sight to people that believe in him, it does not blind them. But Paul was blinded by the light.
That is a huge clue from God that Paul is blind to truth and just plans on using the reputation of Jesus to create a profession with Paul in charge creating a religion to be what Paul wants it to be not what God wants it to be.
Matthew 20:34
So Jesus had compassion on them, and touched their eyes: and immediately their eyes received sight, and they followed him."
But if Jesus perceives the heart of a person is evil, Jesus will not give them sight as explained by a prophet,
John 12:40
"He hath blinded their eyes and hardened their heart; that they should not see with their eyes, nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
Also note ....."the Pharisees they did not confess him, lest they should be put out of the synagogue: 43For they loved the praise of men more than the praise of God."
Paul calls himself an Apostle but loves his status of Pharisee so much he also calls himself a Pharisee in the synagogue not claiming to be a Christian or an Apostle.
A man cannot be both an Apostle and a Pharisee at the same time because they are different religions with different beliefs and Jesus said do not mix them. Yet Paul claims he is both and does mix the gospels claiming to be a Pharisee around Jews but an Apostle around Gentiles and Christians. Paul wants people to believe he converted but he did not.
Jesus taught no man is a God and only God is the Father of us all.
Paul taught that Abraham is the father of us all.
Those are not the same gospel and are completely opposite doctrine.
I have absolutely nothing to say to you, outside of the fact that your exegesis is absolutely deplorable - you misconstrued and bastardized every single passage that you quoted. To the point that I see absolutely no grounds to even attempt to explain the correct understanding to you.
 

Bree

Active Member
Acts 1 clearly states the simple qualifications for apostleship, which would have permanently excluded Paul. In spite of that, he later became the 13th (or 14th, depending on semantics) apostle based on the Damascus Road story. Countless people throughout the years have claimed to have similar visions and divine appointments, but somehow his was taken seriously. Was that because it was legitimate, or did he just have lucky timing? If it was legitimate, why did he later have so much strife with the original apostles?

Paul was chosen to be an apostle and that was eyewitnessed by the Christian who was told to teach him. The account about Pauls conversion to christianity is pretty dramatic, but for such a man, a dramatic experience was needed because he was hell bent on destroying the newly formed Christian congregations.

Pauls conversion to chistianity is a strong testimony to the truthfulness of the account. He was a very zealous and strong minded Pharisee...it would take something pretty spectacular to convert him. A sudden appearance of a heavenly angel (Jesus), blinding him, and sending him to a christian to be taught was almost like God slapping him in the face and telling him to wake up to himself. And he did.

He converted because that experience opened his eyes.
 

Muffled

Jesus in me
Paul was chosen to be an apostle and that was eyewitnessed by the Christian who was told to teach him. The account about Pauls conversion to christianity is pretty dramatic, but for such a man, a dramatic experience was needed because he was hell bent on destroying the newly formed Christian congregations.

Pauls conversion to chistianity is a strong testimony to the truthfulness of the account. He was a very zealous and strong minded Pharisee...it would take something pretty spectacular to convert him. A sudden appearance of a heavenly angel (Jesus), blinding him, and sending him to a christian to be taught was almost like God slapping him in the face and telling him to wake up to himself. And he did.

He converted because that experience opened his eyes.

I believe God doesn't do that for everyone. Paul was special because God could accomplish several things. First he eliminated a ferocious enemy. Second He established a man zealous for evangelization and church building. Third as has been mentioned before, He set up a rational Christian apology.
 
Top