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Was satan really a part of Jesus?

Pegg

Jehovah our God is One
The highest truth, above the minds of men, is that there is a universe full of God's creations, and He alone determines their beings, their laws, and their fates. Anything lesser than this is according to the barriers of perception that God Himself places on creation. He is all-knowing- past, present, and future.

this cannot be a 'truth'

What you are saying is that God determines which children will die a painful slow death, who will be assaulted, who will be raped by whom and when, who will become a thief, who will become a murderer and so on and so on

How can you seriously believe that God determines everything?

His own word says:
Deut 30:15*“See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. 16*[If you will listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God,] which I am commanding you today, so as to love Jehovah your God, to walk in his ways and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will be bound to keep alive and to multiply, and Jehovah your God must bless you in the land to which you are going to take possession of it.
17*“But if your heart turns away and you do not listen, and you are actually seduced and bow down to other gods and serve them, 18*I do tell YOU today that YOU will positively perish. YOU will not lengthen YOUR days on the ground to which you are crossing the Jordan to go to take possession of it. 19*I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against YOU today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, 20*by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days, that you may dwell upon the ground that Jehovah swore to your forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to give to them.”


that doesnt sound to me like God has already decided If i'm going to obey him or not. Its his encouragement to advise us what we 'should' choose. He has left the decision up to us. How can you say he decides the fate of everyone?
 

Sleeppy

Fatalist. Christian. Pacifist.
this cannot be a 'truth'

What you are saying is that God determines which children will die a painful slow death, who will be assaulted, who will be raped by whom and when, who will become a thief, who will become a murderer and so on and so on

How can you seriously believe that God determines everything?

His own word says:
Deut 30:15*“See, I do put before you today life and good, and death and bad. 16*[If you will listen to the commandments of Jehovah your God,] which I am commanding you today, so as to love Jehovah your God, to walk in his ways and to keep his commandments and his statutes and his judicial decisions, then you will be bound to keep alive and to multiply, and Jehovah your God must bless you in the land to which you are going to take possession of it.
17*“But if your heart turns away and you do not listen, and you are actually seduced and bow down to other gods and serve them, 18*I do tell YOU today that YOU will positively perish. YOU will not lengthen YOUR days on the ground to which you are crossing the Jordan to go to take possession of it. 19*I do take the heavens and the earth as witnesses against YOU today, that I have put life and death before you, the blessing and the malediction; and you must choose life in order that you may keep alive, you and your offspring, 20*by loving Jehovah your God, by listening to his voice and by sticking to him; for he is your life and the length of your days, that you may dwell upon the ground that Jehovah swore to your forefathers Abraham, Isaac and Jacob to give to them.”


that doesnt sound to me like God has already decided If i'm going to obey him or not. Its his encouragement to advise us what we 'should' choose. He has left the decision up to us. How can you say he decides the fate of everyone?

Continue to read and to notice. From the beginning, man is made corruptible to the forces of ignorance and evil. Because of this, when God left them, they decided ignorantly on their most basic necessity and were punished irrespective of their innocence. The tower of Babel fell, and from this, the sons of man divided themselves, their language, and their goals. Noah was told that his family would be spared, but that everyone and everything else would die in a huge flood. God opened the heavens and poured. And it was the understanding that God repented, according to the testimony. Abraham was commanded to sacrifice both of his sons. One, he abandoned to an unwed servant. The other, he nearly offered as a burnt offering, to the same God who promised that his seed would live and prosper. The firstborns of Egypt were killed by the sins of their fathers, and of their king; whom God hardened. The Israelites worshipped a golden idol made by the high priest himself, Aaron.. God then tells Moses that He can get rid of them, and continue with Moses and his family. Again, it is said that God repents. But, when Moses returned to the doings of his own brothers, of Abraham, he slaughtered 3000+ of them.

Don't think you can read your way into God's favor, as the Jews and Muslims do. Their words are based on corruptibility, and proceed from their mouths full of the same ignorance that plagued our father, Adam. God does not repent, like the ignorant do. He planned, created, and manipulates according to His own being and knowledge.

So, according to His own Word:

Luke 12:6-7
Are not five sparrows sold for two assars? And one of them is not forgotten before God, but even the hairs of your head have been all numbered; therefore fear ye not, than many sparrows ye are of more value.

John 13:38
Jesus answered him, 'Thy life for me thou wilt lay down! verily, verily, I say to thee, a **** will not crow till thou mayest deny me thrice.'

God knows the hairs on your head; both in their growth and in their falling away.

The leaven of the Pharisees is in the bread we've eaten. It is only removed by awareness, and power from God.
 

rusra02

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I know it may sound radical but this is where I'm coming from.

I believe we all have a light side, and a dark side. And one of the things on a spiritual path is to learn your darkness, and shed some light into it, so you can do what you must to clean house.

So Jesus, before he starts his ministry, goes into the desert and fasts. So he did go into a different state of consciousness, and one could become delirious when fasting. Then satan tempted him with various things, like asked him to turn a stone to bread, throw himself off the cliff and have the angels save him, and also then he offered him the world basically, if he would fall down and worship him.

To myself we're all presented with a choice who to become. If we become a light or dark being. And Jesus certainly made his choice to be light, and reject the temptation. So what evidence could there be, that there really is a satan? What if this was just Jesus facing his weaknesses in the desert, and then showing us how to do the same?

Food for thought.

The Bible and Jesus clearly present Satan as an evil person, I believe. At John 8:44, Jesus describes Satan as "a manslayer when he began, and he did not stand fast in the truth, because truth is not in him. When he speaks the lie, he speaks according to his own disposition, because he is a liar and the father of [the lie]." From Genesis to Revelation, Satan is shown to be the wicked opposer and slanderer of God. In Jesus case, as a perfect man "he committed no sin." (1 Peter 2:22) Sinless, I believe Jesus did not have to struggle against any sinful tendencies. He had no darkness in him, as we sinful humans do. (John 8:29) So the one who tempted Jesus was the wicked spirit that made himself Devil (slanderer) and Satan (opposer).
 
Every epic myth needs a hero, a villain, and a scene where the hero descends into an underworld, faces devils and monsters, defeats them, acquires a 'magical' weapon, returns to the mundane world and spreads this gift to others (sometimes the hero returned with a captured loved one, but that's another myth).

The Christian story is nothing new, Jesus is the hero, Satan is the villain, the desert is the underworld, and his 'magical' weapon he returned with was him becoming free from temptation.


Don't mistake Satan as only the anti-Christian boogeyman created by the Judeo-Christian world. He is much more than that Abrahamic name, Satan has always existed, only under other names and guises, Satan is a powerful and primordial archetype of man's psyche.

This archetype is the reflection of how we perceive ourselves in relation to what we call the "others". Satan is the negative definition of what we believe is human. He is a social and cultural phenomenon and as old as humanity itself. There has always and will always, be essentially two worldviews consisting of oppositions and they are "Us & Them".

Sumerian and Akkadian tablets concur this worldview from the earliest known writings, the ancient Egyptian word for an Egyptian meant "human", the Greek word for non-Greeks was "barbaroi". The Jewish Essenes called non-Essenes "ha satan" (adversary), Zoroastrianism set forth the dualistic "good" (what we believe in) and "evil" (what they believe in).

"A society does not simply discover its others, it fabricates them, by selecting, isolating, and emphasizing as aspect of another people's life, and making it symbolize their difference" - William Scott Green (Professor of the history of religion - ancient Judaism, biblical studies, and the theory of religion).

So, who is this Satan? He is who you are not!
 

Orias

Left Hand Path
Every epic myth needs a hero, a villain, and a scene where the hero descends into an underworld, faces devils and monsters, defeats them, acquires a 'magical' weapon, returns to the mundane world and spreads this gift to others (sometimes the hero returned with a captured loved one, but that's another myth).

The Christian story is nothing new, Jesus is the hero, Satan is the villain, the desert is the underworld, and his 'magical' weapon he returned with was him becoming free from temptation.


Don't mistake Satan as only the anti-Christian boogeyman created by the Judeo-Christian world. He is much more than that Abrahamic name, Satan has always existed, only under other names and guises, Satan is a powerful and primordial archetype of man's psyche.

This archetype is the reflection of how we perceive ourselves in relation to what we call the "others". Satan is the negative definition of what we believe is human. He is a social and cultural phenomenon and as old as humanity itself. There has always and will always, be essentially two worldviews consisting of oppositions and they are "Us & Them".

Sumerian and Akkadian tablets concur this worldview from the earliest known writings, the ancient Egyptian word for an Egyptian meant "human", the Greek word for non-Greeks was "barbaroi". The Jewish Essenes called non-Essenes "ha satan" (adversary), Zoroastrianism set forth the dualistic "good" (what we believe in) and "evil" (what they believe in).

"A society does not simply discover its others, it fabricates them, by selecting, isolating, and emphasizing as aspect of another people's life, and making it symbolize their difference" - William Scott Green (Professor of the history of religion - ancient Judaism, biblical studies, and the theory of religion).

So, who is this Satan? He is who you are not!


Well said.
 

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
Hmmn rather than being a part of Jesus, I would suggest part of the abrahamic god concept, it is merely that with the advent of the gods jesus and the holy spirit , the existing paradigm was espoused to be benevolent (while also being intervening) this necessitates some explanation to account for those factors within existence that would seem to deviate from what could be expected of existence were one to postulate an all powerful benevolent intervening entity, thus there must be something which mitigates the outcomes desired by such an entity so as to preserve the premises despite the conclusions being unsupportive.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
In fact, the idea of "satan being a part of Jesus" is reasonable in one sense, because:

While there are no "devils" out there trying to "get us," in fact the term "satan" refers to our own lower (animal) nature when we give it control instead of our higher (spiritual) nature.

So in this respect, Jesus, too, while a Divine Messenger, can be said to have an animal side as well as a spiritual side; and it was this animal side to which He said "get thee behind Me" when we endeavored to overcome the temptation He was undergoing.

Peace, :)

Bruce
 

Brickjectivity

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I suppose the lesson to Christians is not to try and take over the world forcefully but to behave more like Jesus. Obviously the Christians could try to conquer the world if that was the way to go. They could try to legislate morality if that would work.
 

nash8

Da man, when I walk thru!
Every epic myth needs a hero, a villain, and a scene where the hero descends into an underworld, faces devils and monsters, defeats them, acquires a 'magical' weapon, returns to the mundane world and spreads this gift to others (sometimes the hero returned with a captured loved one, but that's another myth).

The Christian story is nothing new, Jesus is the hero, Satan is the villain, the desert is the underworld, and his 'magical' weapon he returned with was him becoming free from temptation.


Don't mistake Satan as only the anti-Christian boogeyman created by the Judeo-Christian world. He is much more than that Abrahamic name, Satan has always existed, only under other names and guises, Satan is a powerful and primordial archetype of man's psyche.

This archetype is the reflection of how we perceive ourselves in relation to what we call the "others". Satan is the negative definition of what we believe is human. He is a social and cultural phenomenon and as old as humanity itself. There has always and will always, be essentially two worldviews consisting of oppositions and they are "Us & Them".

Sumerian and Akkadian tablets concur this worldview from the earliest known writings, the ancient Egyptian word for an Egyptian meant "human", the Greek word for non-Greeks was "barbaroi". The Jewish Essenes called non-Essenes "ha satan" (adversary), Zoroastrianism set forth the dualistic "good" (what we believe in) and "evil" (what they believe in).

"A society does not simply discover its others, it fabricates them, by selecting, isolating, and emphasizing as aspect of another people's life, and making it symbolize their difference" - William Scott Green (Professor of the history of religion - ancient Judaism, biblical studies, and the theory of religion).

So, who is this Satan? He is who you are not!

I agree... well said.

I don't think so. I've heard this "Satan is the dark side of God/humans" concept before and I don't buy it.

What's your view of Satan?

"DISCLAIMER: Wisdom not included"

LOL

I suppose the lesson to Christians is not to try and take over the world forcefully but to behave more like Jesus. Obviously the Christians could try to conquer the world if that was the way to go. They could try to legislate morality if that would work.

Indeed, but most people have been brainwashed into thinking that being like Jesus is at the least unattainable, and to think that one could become like Jesus is "blasphemous". It's sad that's what Christianity has come to.
 

BruceDLimber

Well-Known Member
In case it's not obvious, there's a gross typo in my post #31:

In the last sentence, read "He" where--in error--it says "we."

(Sorry about that!)

Bruce
 
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