Was the big bang creation or evolution?

[outhouse]

Thats described as the singularity. In the singularity there would be no space, would have been infintenmsly small. At that point time literally stops according to physics, it started off as eternity. In theory you can use a black hole to warp space because outside spacetime you come back to one single point no matter where you are in the universe. In theory anything having a high enough mass time can stop. As you approach a black hole you would observe the universe speeding up around you.

Thanks for a limited view of what is known.

But I asked how that related to your OP.

A super massive black hole could have created the universe, in another universe.

 

[outhouse]

[]

Please don't troll this thread with nonsense that is off topic.

 

[idav]

A super massive black hole could have created the universe, in another universe.

Essentially that is exactly the theory, there was a singularity, is saying. If thats the case then the singularity was just an change event, not ex nihilo. I have heard some scientist say the singularity could have come from nothing to due the quantum fluctuations and such but that doesn't really sound like "nothing". Even a scientist is left with, you need "something" that exists default which would simply be change and progression, no need for a creation therefore no need for a creator.

 

[outhouse]

Essentially that is exactly the theory, there was a singularity, is saying. If thats the case then the singularity was just an change event, not ex nihilo. I have heard some scientist say the singularity could have come from nothing to due the quantum fluctuations and such but that doesn't really sound like "nothing". Even a scientist is left with, you need "something" that exists default which would simply be change and progression, no need for a creation therefore no need for a creator.

If you had read any Lawrence Krauss you would also understand that nothing is not nothing.

 

[idav]

If you had read any Lawrence Krauss you would also understand that nothing is not nothing.

Really? I am going to need to look that up later.

edit: I remember watching that whole thing on nothing, it was interesting stuff for sure.

 

[Willamena]

Cosmology is the science of answering that question if the universe was created or not.

Cosmology is the practice (discipline, Thief might say) of constructing a model of how the universe looks.

 

[idav]

Cosmology is the practice (discipline, Thief might say) of constructing a model of how the universe looks.

I will accept both our answers.

I am particularly concerned about the origin but the fate is also helpful in envisioning the reverse.

Cosmology (from the Greek κόσμος, kosmos "world" and -λογία, -logia "study of"), is the study of the origin, evolution, and eventual fate of the universe.
Cosmology - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

edit: see guys it says evolution in it lol

 

[idav]

Without pretending to understand much of what you are telling us, we can at least agree that:

Suffice to say that warp drive is possible like in Star Trek. It's How it's possible that really takes the mind for a loop.

Worm Hole transportation

Just when you thought it was confusing enough, those physicist had to come up with wormholes. Here’s the premise behind a "wormhole." [graphic] Although Special Relativity forbids objects to move faster than light within spacetime, it is known that spacetime itself can be warped and distorted. It takes an enormous amount of matter or energy to create such distortions, but distortions are possible, theoretically. To use an analogy: even if there were a speed limit to how fast a pencil could move across a piece of paper, the motion or changes to the paper is a separate issue. In the case of the wormhole, a shortcut is made by warping space (folding the paper) to connect two points that used to be separated. These theories are too new to have either been discounted or proven viable. And, yes, wormholes do invite the old time travel paradox problems again.
NASA - Ideas Based On What We’d Like To Achieve
NASA - Status of "Warp Drive"

 

[gnostic]

The singularity doesn't mean "nothing".

It is said the singularity is super hot and super dense.

Too hot and too dense for ordinary matters (made out of proton, neutron and electron particles) to form. But in order for it to be density and producing heat, then there must be matters, even if we don't know where that matters come from. And the heat had to come from somewhere.

The problem is that we don't know what this singularity is...yet. We may know what the singularity possibly be, in the future, but we really don't know.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Big bang theory is just that...and a theory only lasts as long it has not been falsified...but the OP seems to imply it is a enduring fact! Now if this were a pure science discussion, this presumption would be acceptable, however it should not be presumed in a religious discussion as it is accepted in some religions that there was no beginning, the Cosmos is both eternal and infinite.

Science deals with the physical universe...Theology deals with religious concepts about the spiritual basis behind the physical universe.

Scientists, both atheists or theists, are not an authority on religious understanding and Theologists all, are not an authority on the understanding of the physical universe.

 

[idav]

The singularity doesn't mean "nothing".

It is said the singularity is super hot and super dense.

Too hot and too dense for ordinary matters (made out of proton, neutron and electron particles) to form. But in order for it to be density and producing heat, then there must be matters, even if we don't know where that mattters to me from. And the heat had to come from somewhere.

The problem is that we don't know what this singularity is...yet. We may know what the singularity possibly be, in the future, but we really don't know.

Right the singularity isn't nothing. It is a mass of energy which gave it the capability of becoming existence where time and space were not an issue. Time and space are only an issue without enough mass or energy. The quantum world is in a state which allows this as well which is the fundamental of what makes up matter, but matter is cooled down and its mass has dispersed.

 

[idav]

Big bang theory is just that...and a theory only lasts as long it has not been falsified...but the OP seems to imply it is a enduring fact! Now if this were a pure science discussion, this presumption would be acceptable, however it should not be presumed in a religious discussion as it is accepted in some religions that there was no beginning, the Cosmos is both eternal and infinite.

Science deals with the physical universe...Theology deals with religious concepts about the spiritual basis behind the physical universe.

Scientists, both atheists or theists, are not an authority on religious understanding and Theologists all, are not an authority on the understanding of the physical universe.

Yes the big bang continues to be confirmed and has endured experimentation and observation.

Truth can be shared by science and theology. Philosophy really paints a picture of what the knowledge that science finds means and how it ought to be used.

If science finds god thats necessarily a bad thing, they have been tripping over all this power clumsily as it is.

 

[Ben Dhyan]

If science finds god thats necessarily a bad thing, they have been tripping over all this power clumsily as it is.

But as I noted in my previous post, Science only deals with the physical universe and is progressing well, but it can never find the transcendental cause behind the physical universe through the scientific method because the source is transcendent.

Remember...God//Brahman/Allah/Tao/Spirit/Heaven/Nirvana/etc., are merely concepts that represent the transcendent source of universal manifestation. and as such are not that which they represent, hence religious study attempts to bring about the direct apprehension of this transcendent source, not an indirect intellectual conception of it.