Was the twentieth century the most murderous century ever?

[Kirran]

Much of what's called "socialism" here is actually just social safety net stuff....not the people controlling the means of production.
I'm on the dole (a little) now...collecting Social Security. I can live with that.
Now....work harder so I can get more!
(Not you...you don't live here. Just Americastanians. Work, work, work!)

Yeah, that's the case in a lot of places! I think people make a big deal out of the whole left-right divide when in practice our leftist and rightist parties are all just liberals with some degree of variation on the degree and kind of regulation which should be placed on the free market and, to a greater degree, on social issues.

 

[Skwim]

Was the twentieth century the most murderous century ever?
And it was seculars and nationalists who made it murderous.
Does one agree with the above notion?:

The bloodiest war ever, started by the actions of a secular nationalist party.
The 2 most murderous regimes ever, both secular.
The first nation to industrialize a genocide, secular.

Keep in mind the number of people in the world at various times in the past. More people = greater likelihood of everything; bad things and good things.


.

 

[paarsurrey]

His list:

Event | Century | Est. Death Toll* | Adjusted Death Toll*
* both in millions

(1) An Lushan Revolt | 8th | 36 | 429

(2) Mongol Conquests | 13th | 40 | 278

(3) Mideast Slave Trade | 7th–19th | 19 | 132

(4) Fall of Ming Dynasty | 17th | 25 | 112

(5) Fall of Rome | 3rd-5th | 8 | 105

(6) Timur Lenk (Tamerlane) | 4th–15th | 17 | 100

(7) Killing of American Indians | 15th–19th | 20 | 92

(8) Atlantic Slave Trade | 15th–19th | 18 | 83

(9) Second World War | 20th | 55 | 55


That 36 million is the most extreme estimate for An Lushan he acknowledges himself. That this is likely overstated is based on numerous pieces of information (such as this is the difference between 2 census numbers, which could be affected by several other factors such as less effective state bureaucracy to measure population after major conflict and population movement; the rule of thumb that the highest number in historical warfare is never correct; that the number is disputed by many historians, etc.)

And seeing as it certainly includes deaths from famine and disease, there is no reason not to include Spanish Flu in the WW1 death toll. There is also no logical reason why WW1 and WW2 are separate wars, but many of the others are considered a single event.

The Russian revolution should also be added to Lenin and Stalin and the rest of the Soviet Union, ditto the Chinese revolution to Mao if we are being consistent with things like 'the Mongol conquests'.

"Event | Century | Est. Death Toll* | Adjusted Death Toll*
* both in millions
(1) An Lushan Revolt | 8th | 36 | 429
(2) Mongol Conquests | 13th | 40 | 278
(3) Mideast Slave Trade | 7th–19th | 19 | 132
(4) Fall of Ming Dynasty | 17th | 25 | 112
(5) Fall of Rome | 3rd-5th | 8 | 105
(6) Timur Lenk (Tamerlane) | 4th–15th | 17 | 100
(7) Killing of American Indians | 15th–19th | 20 | 92
(8) Atlantic Slave Trade | 15th–19th | 18 | 83
(9) Second World War | 20th | 55 | 55
"
Seeing the above figures one must note here that Muhammad spread his religion and peace with the minimum human loss, if he and his followers would have not been attacked aggressively, there would have been no human loss.

Regards

 

[Monk Of Reason]

Was the twentieth century the most murderous century ever?
And it was seculars and nationalists who made it murderous.
Does one agree with the above notion?:

The bloodiest war ever, started by the actions of a secular nationalist party.
The 2 most murderous regimes ever, both secular.
The first nation to industrialize a genocide, secular.

Regards

____________

This thread was conceptualized from:
Post #14 of our respected friend @Augustus , thanks to him and regards.

If you are talking about Hitler then he was most definitly religious. How the hell else can you even begin to talk about a genocide of a religious group without being religious yourself?

Mao and USSR also did a whole lot of stuff that was nationalistic destruction. Nationalism seems to be pretty dangerous. Its almost like its in the same vien of belief system as religions.

 

[arthra]

Was the twentieth century the most murderous century ever?
And it was seculars and nationalists who made it murderous.
Does one agree with the above notion?:
The bloodiest war ever, started by the actions of a secular nationalist party.
The 2 most murderous regimes ever, both secular.
The first nation to industrialize a genocide, secular.
Regards
This thread was conceptualized from:
Post #14 of our respected friend @Augustus , thanks to him and regards.

I agree that the twentieth century was the most bloody century to date... We have yet to finish the twenty first century.
But considering the use of weapons such as poison gas, nuclear weapons and war machines yes it was the bloodiest. The only silver lining in all the clouds of war in my view was the formation of the League of Nations after WWI and it's successor the United Nations after WWII.

 

[paarsurrey]

"Lets hope we have a better 21st century."

I agree, and we all must pray for that.
The odds are certainly there and not small, and must be checked to find peace for humanity.

Regards

Thanks for rating my post optimistic.
Regards

 

[whirlingmerc]

So far, yes.... the 20th century was the most violent century yet

The philosophy of atheistic Neitzche building on social evolution in Germany
and secular communism in Russia were leading causes

We don't know how that will compare with the 21st century as it is just starting but
peace is not 'breaking out all over the world' so far.
We might add there were over a billion abortions in the world in the 20th century
the leading reason being that the baby was a girl.

 

[whirlingmerc]

Godwin's law time.

I'm a libertarian because I say I am no matter what I espouse and no matter what I do and no matter what the moral standards I violate. So when I confiscate all your worldly possessions you must call me a libertarian because my actions which prove the opposite don't count.

(back to the OP):

WWII and the Cold War was a climactic struggle between good and evil with the entire world involved. Tel Megiddo writ large. And we're all here today because of the action of one Soviet sub commander who prevented WWIII.

It was not a matter of secularism but of a deeper current of life.

By the way.... Hitler was an occultist who mocked Christianity ... hardly a Christian except in some loose 'culturally Christian' name only sense.

"Richard Overy held that Adolf Hitler was skeptical of all religious belief. ... Historian Richard Overy maintains that Hitler was not a "practising Christian," nor was he a "thorough atheist."" see wiki

 

[paarsurrey]

By the way.... Hitler was an occultist who mocked Christianity ... hardly a Christian except in some loose 'culturally Christian' name only sense.

"Richard Overy held that Adolf Hitler was skeptical of all religious belief. ... Historian Richard Overy maintains that Hitler was not a "practising Christian," nor was he a "thorough atheist."" see wiki

The Atheism won't like to own him.

Regards

 

[lewisnotmiller]

The Atheism won't like to own him.

Regards

Oh please...Mao was both an atheist and a compete arse. We are well aware the two can inhabit the same space. Rather than childish point-scoring, do you have some actual reason for your assertion?

 

[paarsurrey]

The 20th century should have been more civilized than previous centuries...instead it was the most barbaric...the creation of NATO, the UN, and the EU will hopefully prevent anything like that from happening again , but don't count on it

One is right.
Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

A political question

How? Please
Regards