We all believe in crazy things...

[Stevicus]

For reasons I can't explain, I believe that talking to machines will cause them to function more efficiently. ("Come on, you piece of junk, don't fail on me now!")

 

[jonathan180iq]

According to you, the point of the thread is that ...

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That seems to me to be a rather remarkable claim rendered defensible only by insisting upon an indefensible definition of 'woo.' So how do you justify your claim?

Those who are unable to separate themselves from their beliefs probably aren't going to understand what's going on here.

You're free to actually participate in this thread anytime you like.

 

[David1967]

I believe time here is well spent.

Top that for loopy!

Well....cant compete with that.

 

[A Vestigial Mote]

I believe that the universe never had a beginning. All matter and energy has always been "here."

I also don't believe in a supposed/imminent "heat death" of the universe. I've read documentation, I won't claim that I understand all of it... but I feel that because the gravitational pull between two bodies can't be absolute zero, and given a literal ETERNITY of time for gravity to act, there will never be a time that bodies aren't being acted on, or moving, eventually joining, causing pressures on one another, heating up, gathering other matter/mass, etc.

I know smarter people than myself would challenge these beliefs... and it makes no difference to my holding them.

I tried scrounging around in my mind for more mystical/magical/inexplicable/"woo-worthy" beliefs that I hold... and I honestly came up empty. The closest I got: Since I was young I have been able to sort of "bear down" in my skull and create a "sound" within it that is sort of like a rolling thunder. I used to hope (not necessarily believe) that practicing this and making it "stronger" would somehow lead to some latent ability being unlocked. Now I very much believe that what I am doing is merely flexing some muscle in or around my skull, and it causes some sort of pressure that pushes blood-vessels or veins closer to my ear-drums, causing me to hear the sound of my own pumping blood.

 

[Etritonakin]

I've long said that everyone believes in a little woo, even us staunch rationalists.

There's a tag line at the bottom of my signature. It makes a statement about people's propensity to have faith in things that many would otherwise find ridiculous. What I'd like to do (if it doesn't erupt into a flame war) is compile a list of beliefs among all of us, atheist and theist alike, of all the things we believe in that are rather absurd, both personally and religiously.

It's easier said than done, but try to leave your sensitivities at home for this one. There's no reason to get offended by bit of fun prodding.

I'll start:

• I believe, based on nothing but mathematical conjecture, that the Universe is literally teeming with life, both simple and complex.
• I believe, more than I'd like to admit, that I've experienced enough dejavu in my life that I can control it when it occurs. (I also believe that I'm delusional...)
• I believe that I once made a toothpick levitate off my arm when I was 7.

I believe in the biblical worldwide flood.
I have not yet gathered enough evidence to show it is possible to others, but I do not believe the flood described would leave the evidence many believe it would.
I have seen and experienced enough to believe in miraculous things, so I do not view it with the idea that it must have been completely "natural" in every aspect to have happened.
I have not studied the account enough to consider anything besides whether or not the whole earth could have been covered with water in the way described.
I have also not studied it enough to consider which life forms would have actually died, whether it actually says those on the ark were the only humans at all who survived, whether animal life today could have spread so quickly, whether God could have helped that process, etc.....

It is true that when you consider the miraculous, natural things alone cannot be relied upon to determine what happened, but that is also actually true of human creative activity.
I do not believe God would have had reason to make things look different than they were -such as some believe concerning a young earth being made with the appearance of age -only that the correct sort of evidence has not been considered given what is actually stated alone.

It is easy to assume what is being said, assume it is a complete account, read our own thoughts into it, etc.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

I believe demons are real, well in fact I know they are real I have one that I cant get rid of. It said the only way that it will leave is if I ask it to leave by its name. I don't have any idea of what that could be. No, its name isn't Ashmedai. It's not evil, it doesn't even speak to me unless I ask. It moved in while I was learning about King Solomon using demons to help build his temple.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Being a little more serious-minded (generally, not always) than some other posters, I will say this: I do genuinely believe that an emotionally-based religious belief (and they are all emotionally-based) has a strong capacity to defeat human reason. (Human reason: observation, conjecture, test, repeat.) It does so by limiting what we will consciously accept as having observed, or how we will interpret the result of our tests.

Here's another one (which I'll try to justify): I believe that capital punishment is murder and therefore wrong. Tit-for-tat is not justice. If you burn down my house, the scales do not go up on my side by burning yours down. We both lose. If somebody runs over my child, justice is not served by running over somebody else's child. If you burn down my house and are forced to build (or pay to build) a new one for me, then justice is served. Killing the murderer will not bring the victim back to life, and will offer nothing of value (revenge is truly valueless) to the bereaved. Once you have the murderer strapped to a gurney, unable to move or defend himself from the tender ministrations of the executioner, you can no longer claim that this is "self defense" or "in defense of society." There is no need to defend yourself from the defenseless.

 

[MrMrdevincamus]

Being a little more serious-minded (generally, not always) than some other posters, I will say this: I do genuinely believe that an emotionally-based religious belief (and they are all emotionally-based) has a strong capacity to defeat human reason. (Human reason: observation, conjecture, test, repeat.) It does so by limiting what we will consciously accept as having observed, or how we will interpret the result of our tests.

Here's another one (which I'll try to justify): I believe that capital punishment is murder and therefore wrong. Tit-for-tat is not justice. If you burn down my house, the scales do not go up on my side by burning yours down. We both lose. If somebody runs over my child, justice is not served by running over somebody else's child. If you burn down my house and are forced to build (or pay to build) a new one for me, then justice is served. Killing the murderer will not bring the victim back to life, and will offer nothing of value (revenge is truly valueless) to the bereaved. Once you have the murderer strapped to a gurney, unable to move or defend himself from the tender ministrations of the executioner, you can no longer claim that this is "self defense" or "in defense of society." There is no need to defend yourself from the defenseless.

Lets not forget the innocents that the state, and by a long proxy I have murdered by 'mistake'. DNA has shown just how imperfect our 'justice' system is. Of course I would bet that 'murders by mistake etc' are far greater in number than what is admitted to by authorities. All that said I can not say that I would not myself 'grease' someone for hurting my loved ones in a fit of rage, even though my religion would consider killing one of the most serious of sins. At least only I would own it. The DP is just a vile, barbaric practice that does nothing to reduce violent crime.

; { >

 

[dgirl1986]

What is "woo?" Can't say I use the term.

Were you answered?

 

[dgirl1986]

I believe that aliens exist, I dont have any reason to believe this.
I believe that when people look at me they are judging me.
I believe that some forms of spiritual practice have psychological benefits.

 

[jonathan180iq]

What is "woo?" Can't say I use the term.

Were you answered?

Nope...

Woo - RationalWiki

Bit I simplify that even more - it's believing in factually unsupported things. Anything that's not congruent with your overall worldview can be considered woo too. Levitating toothpicks is not something that fits my rationalist worldview, so it's woo to me, for example.

I think the best response here to this point is @Etritonakin for realizing that he holds beliefs that have yet to be supported with any real evidence. Something unsupported, based on nothing but faith and wishful thinking, is woo. It's an honest response and it's an example of someone recognizing their beliefs for what they are. I have a great deal of respect for that.

 

[Stevicus]

Nope...

Woo - RationalWiki

Bit I simplify that even more - it's believing in factually unsupported things. Anything that's not congruent with your overall worldview can be considered woo too. Levitating toothpicks is not something that fits my rationalist worldview, so it's woo to me, for example.

I think the best response here to this point is @Etritonakin for realizing that he holds beliefs that have yet to be supported with any real evidence. Something unsupported, based on nothing but faith and wishful thinking, is woo. It's an honest response and it's an example of someone recognizing their beliefs for what they are. I have a great deal of respect for that.

I had heard the term "woo" used in this context before, but I was not aware of its origins. Of course, I've heard the phrase "pitching woo" or the verb "to woo," as in to court or pursue a romantic relationship. But this usage of "woo" is completely unrelated to that.

 

[Magic Man]

I believe the above after hard objective research. I have studied this phenomena to the extreme with a skeptical mind before becoming convinced the phenomena does exist beyond reasonable doubt. Also I have read the work of western parapsychologists on their investigation into this figure. I also hunted for skeptical opinions exhaustively and considered them. I also consider the subjective nature of those providing positive and negative claims. I formed my best objective belief.

What was this hard objective research? Can you show me the hard evidence that was produced that supposedly supports the belief that someone is able to magically produce objects out of thin air?

Also, phenomena is plural; phenomenon is the singular.

 

[Quintessence]

I suppose I don't feel the need to categorize ideas/behaviors that don't fall in line with some particular standard - a standard that hearkens scientism no less - pejoratively. If anything, I feel the need to discourage such a thing. There are certainly benefits to scrutinizing one's idealogies, but this notion of recognizing ideas for "what they are" as if standards set by ideologies like scientism are the authoritative ones is... hmph. Besides, this is really this very simple: to someone, all of what I do and believe and am is "woo." Including everything I just said here.

*sips lapsang souchong*

 

[jonathan180iq]

What was this hard objective research? Can you show me the hard evidence that was produced that supposedly supports the belief that someone is able to magically produce objects out of thin air?

Also, phenomena is plural; phenomenon is the singular.

This isn't the place for that. I brought it up just as an example for George - not to be scrutinized.

 

[jonathan180iq]

I suppose I don't feel the need to categorize ideas/behaviors that don't fall in line with some particular standard - a standard that hearkens scientism no less - pejoratively. If anything, I feel the need to discourage such a thing. There are certainly benefits to scrutinizing one's idealogies, but this notion of recognizing ideas for "what they are" as if standards set by ideologies like scientism are the authoritative ones is... hmph. Besides, this is really this very simple: to someone, all of what I do and believe and am is "woo." Including everything I just said here.

*sips lapsang souchong*

Which is fine, and why I said that "Anything that's not congruent with your overall worldview can be considered woo too."

Holding hard scientific ideas while also rejecting the idea of "scientisim" would fall into that category.

 

[Quintessence]

Holding hard scientific ideas while also rejecting the idea of "scientisim" would fall into that category.

Truly? That would be quite the paradox considering scientism is (ironically) unscientific.

Though I suppose the folks who believe there is only One True Answer and only One True Authority wouldn't view it as a paradox. One True Wayism is something I've always had a hard time grasping, though... and probably related to why I have a hard time with "woo" ideas for this thread too... haha.

(don't mind me, I've been a bit loopy lately... this warm weather is messing up my biological rhythms)

 

[Katzpur]

• I believe, based on nothing but mathematical conjecture, that the Universe is literally teeming with life, both simple and complex.
• I believe, more than I'd like to admit, that I've experienced enough dejavu in my life that I can control it when it occurs. (I also believe that I'm delusional...)
• I believe that I once made a toothpick levitate off my arm when I was 7.

I'm really kind of an animist at heart.

 

[Katzpur]

For reasons I can't explain, I believe that talking to machines will cause them to function more efficiently. ("Come on, you piece of junk, don't fail on me now!")

Makes sense to me, but you have to talk more nicely. I mean, how would you feel if you were a machine and someone called you "a piece of junk"? Honestly!

 

[David T]

I

I've long said that everyone believes in a little woo, even us staunch rationalists.

There's a tag line at the bottom of my signature. It makes a statement about people's propensity to have faith in things that many would otherwise find ridiculous. What I'd like to do (if it doesn't erupt into a flame war) is compile a list of beliefs among all of us, atheist and theist alike, of all the things we believe in that are rather absurd, both personally and religiously.

It's easier said than done, but try to leave your sensitivities at home for this one. There's no reason to get offended by bit of fun prodding.

I'll start:

• I believe, based on nothing but mathematical conjecture, that the Universe is literally teeming with life, both simple and complex.
• I believe, more than I'd like to admit, that I've experienced enough dejavu in my life that I can control it when it occurs. (I also believe that I'm delusional...)
• I believe that I once made a toothpick levitate off my arm when I was 7.

I believe girls are magical Inspite of all emperical evidence to date. I do believe further field studies by me need to be taken to make is scientific fact, I do believe!!