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We need illegals to stay and pick the crops sez Pelosi.

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Please let us keep in mind migrant workers could help solve the US labor shortage. The US now has more jobs than it can fill. Fixing the immigration system could boost the economy as well as fix U.S. wage inflation. Hence, please let us consider amnesty to undocumented workers! Bienvenidos a Los Estados Unidos de America! Welcome to the U.S.A.!


If farmers had to pay higher wages to pick crops, smaller family farmers, would go out of business thereby eliminating jobs. This would narrow the farm industry down to the larger farms run by cooperations, who can better afford the higher wages. They will then pass on the cost to the consumers, so the poor and middle class families take an inflationary hit.

Look at the University system and student loans; sort of a larger wage for students. The Universities made $trillions off these students and the tax payer is expected to take the full hit for the debt. All the Universities had to do was pay Democrat politicians $10's millions in campaign donations and they made $trillions. This created problems for students, which they then pass onto others; parasites. Big Businesses and Politicians always do well via these warm fuzzy Lefty schemes, while the middle class takes the hit with higher taxes and deficit spending; future taxes up front.

The mistake that big hearted people; emotional thinkers make, is the cost of living, where these workers come from, is much lower than the inflated costs in the USA. Migrant workers are seasonal. They cyclically work here and return home where their lower wage here, can pay their bills there. There is less good work where they live, so many work here to send money home and save, so they can retire in the old country, with some security and social status. I have a immigrant friend who just retired into a nice house he owns in Puerto Rico.

A few years ago the debate about poverty in America was more center stage. There is a connection here. One study compared the creature comforts of the poor in America of today to the poor of the 1960's. Poor families of today have automobiles, most own homes, TV sets, computers, microwave, phones, health care, more square feet of living space, etc.. Back in the 1960's only the upper middle class had all these trimmings. What was considered well off and comfortable in terms of logistics, 50 years ago, is now called poverty.

Poverty appears to be less about physical need, and more about a state of mind, due to people comparing each other to the Jones. it is not about objective measures of physical logistics and support. It is more about not having the designer things.

The immigrants may appear poor here based on comparing to the Jones, but in their country, they are up to par with the logistics of middle class and are happy. I know a seasonal painter who goes to medical school in Brazil and works here for summers. Someday he will be doctor there or here. He gets paid less but he works extra to make up for it. It is not a snob about being in premed.

I get the impression the Left elite like to make people feel bad, about their status, instead of help them count their blessings. They like to manipulate these proud people based on emotional thinking; free ride, that then leads to economic problems and the need for bigger government.

If farm worker wages were too low for migrant workers they would not show up. They would seek the better wages in other states. It is not about the elite lefties comparing everyone to themselves and rubbing their nose in it, until they generate embarrassment and subjective need. Pelosi is very rich and anyone not in her circle is like a migrant worker who is needed to support her class. They cannot see happiness in hard work, family and simplicity. It must involve pretension and elite flash.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
I'm not into the Quixotic anymore than I am
to having my city flooded with people it cannot support.
What about having your city flooded with taxpayers who contribute to the local economy and culture?

I also think it's "quixotic" to live in a world free of disease - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be working towards that goal. Personally, I think a world where you are not limited to where you can travel and live just because you happened to be born within a certain geographic region is a world that is more free and equitable than one which specifically limits your ability to do so. And I think anyone who loves and aspires to freedom would agree.
 
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Twilight Hue

Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Thinking before you speak is not a bad thing. More people should do it.

In fact people should think before they post stupid things on the internet.
Naw. People are smart for posting the stupid things inept leaders actually say and do on the internet.

You should post on the internet to tell them to stop saying stupid things on the internet so others on the internet won't have to post stupid things on the internet to begin with.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
What about having your city flooded with taxpayers who contribute to the local economy and culture?

I also think it's "quixotic" to live in a world free of disease - but that doesn't mean we shouldn't be working towards that goal. Personally, I think a world where you are not limited to where you can travel and live just because you happened to be born within a certain geographic region is a world that is more free and equitable than one which specifically limits your ability to do so. And I think anyone who loves and aspires to freedom would agree.

HK has long had a very tight border, for very good reason.

The city is way overcrowded. We can't handlebeing flooded by anyone, including
your hypothetical desireables.

Open borders and a terrif life for all might
come someday.

For a small stature female like me,
"travel anywhere" will never happen
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
HK has long had a very tight border, for very good reason.

The city is way overcrowded. We can't handlebeing flooded by anyone, including
your hypothetical desireables.

Open borders and a terrif life for all might
come someday.

For a small stature female like me,
"travel anywhere" will never happen
I can't really speak to your specific situation, although I could argue that increased global travel would still probably significantly benefit Hong Kong more than it would cost.
 

Audie

Veteran Member
I can't really speak to your specific situation, although I could argue that increased global travel would still probably significantly benefit Hong Kong more than it would cost.
Travel? The problem is people wanting to come and stay! Unknown anyones from anywhere.

Like the USA except we have no room
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Travel? The problem is people wanting to come and stay! Unknown anyones from anywhere.

Like the USA except we have no room
Actually, it seems HK's population has been slowly declining over the last three years and are projected to continue to decline:
Hong Kong Population 1950-2022

I mean, it's not like overpopulation isn't a factor in where people choose to live, and the benefits of global open borders (or no borders at all) means people will also have the option of freely moving OUT OF Hong Kong too.

To be clear, my argument is not that open borders would be universally beneficial in all current geo-political situations in isolation. My argument is simply that just because something is idealistic or unlikely doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it AS an ideal, just like the eradication of disease should be the aim of medicine. I believe the elimination of global borders is a good aim to strive for, even if we're only talking in the extremely abstract or long term.
 
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Audie

Veteran Member
Actually, it seems HK's population has been slowly declining over the last three years and are projected to continue to decline:
Hong Kong Population 1950-2022

I mean, it's not like overpopulation isn't a factor in where people choose to live, and the benefits of global open borders (or no borders at all) means people will also have the option of freely moving OUT OF Hong Kong too.

To be clear, my argument is not that open borders would be universally beneficial in all current geo-political situations in isolation. My argument is simply that just because something is idealistic or unlikely doesn't mean we shouldn't strive for it AS an ideal, just like the eradication of disease should be the aim of medicine. I believe the elimination of global borders is a good aim to strive for, even if we're only talking in the extremely abstract or long term.
Actually it would take LOT of people
departing to alleviate a level of overcrowding that you probably know nothing about.

No borders anywhere, peace, harmony, justice, no crime...utopia.
I don't think that is happening.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
Actually it would take LOT of people
departing to alleviate a level of overcrowding that you probably know nothing about.
Possibly. I am just saying that global open borders could potentially allow for a greater possibility of that to happen. Or not. I can't speak to much about very specific communities.

No borders anywhere, peace, harmony, justice, no crime...utopia.
I don't think that is happening.
Again, that doesn't mean it isn't an ideal we should strive towards. I find this attitude really just helps nobody.

"Oh, what, you want to make the world better? Nah, never gonna happen."
 

Audie

Veteran Member
Possibly. I am just saying that global open borders could potentially allow for a greater possibility of that to happen. Or not. I can't speak to much about very specific communities.


Again, that doesn't mean it isn't an ideal we should strive towards. I find this attitude really just helps nobody.

"Oh, what, you want to make the world better? Nah, never gonna happen."

Which isn't my attitude
 
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