wealth in christianity: how can you reconcile wealthy religious people?

[cambridge79]

I don't have any of those things. Why claim I do? More of your honesty showing?

i don't say you have. I said why would a pastor need a private jet when he can use public transports or guess what, e-mails and skype, like common human beings.

 

[cambridge79]

I'm not giving you anything either. Stay broke then.

And i'm not asking anything for me I made it clear, yet you still dodge the request, showing that you're worshipping money and ignoring the very words of the man you say you're following.
Be blessed my friend, and pray the afterlife you believe in doesn't really exist cause you look like the textbook definition of a hipocrat. A-men

 

[BSM1]

since you accuse me to deliberately lie, can you back up your claims and quote a single passage from the gospels where Jesus actually endorses material wealth?

I expect you to do that or publicly apoligize for your accusations because your claim was a very bold claim there and i have the right here to demand you to substanciate your accusation or apologize for that

Because i can produce many more lines from the gospels against wealth. For example Matthew 6:24

"No one can serve two masters, for either he will hate the one and love the other, or he will be devoted to the one and despise the other. You cannot serve God and money"

( and by the way americans put "in god we trust on their money, how stupid can one be?" )

Mark 12:41

And he sat down opposite the treasury and watched the people putting money into the offering box. Many rich people put in large sums. And a poor widow came and put in two small copper coins, which make a penny. And he called his disciples to him and said to them, “Truly, I say to you, this poor widow has put in more than all those who are contributing to the offering box. For they all contributed out of their abundance, but she out of her poverty has put in everything she had, all she had to live on.”

Can you do better?

I think you have (conveniently) overlooked the story of Jesus and the expensive hair oil. You may want to read Jesus' quote concerning the poor in this situation.

 

[cambridge79]

I think you have (conveniently) overlooked the story of Jesus and the expensive hair oil. You may want to read Jesus' quote concerning the poor in this situation.

No ommision here, i know that passage. I simply think the only way one could read actual endorsement of wealth in that passage is by simply being dishonest in order to push the prosperity Gospel agenda.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Your first line in the post was a lie. I didn't read anything else. Either you are confused on Jesus or you are bearing false witness against Him on purpose.

You're right. Jesus was against rich people overtly until it was time for him to sleep in their houses and eat their food.

Nothing wrong with being rich,, just as long as you tithe to God what belongs to him. It is God who gives us the ability to gain wealth.

The concern of Jesus is that He knows many who are rich feel they have no need of anything and love their money.

Nicodemus was rich. Yet he was there to help take the body of Jesus and brought 100 pounds of myrrh and aloes. You sound bitter,, is it because you are poor and cannot get the items that will make your life more fun?

Are you rich? Do the policies of the rich make you any wealthier?

Solomon was rich,, David was rich.

You really want to use them as paragons of morality? Their reigns brought about eventual civil wars and ended in the diaspora. Yaaaaaaaaay them [/sarcasm]

You take scriptures out of context, to make it appear as if Jesus hates money....lol,,,,,,, Jesus created all the gold and all the silver.. it's all His. Everything is His,, even you and me. All souls belong to Him.

I suspect you would choose poorly at the end of Indiana Jones and the Last Crusade.

So,, let me guess,,,,you take that scripture to mean,, empty out and stay busted. Never save any money,, stay broke if at all possible?????

Is that your understanding?

It's what Jesus said. Where is the evidence Jesus was nothing more than some dude who lived off of others?

Granted, I feel it's irresponsible and impractical in the extreme. I feel moderation works much better. Still, it's what he said.

I think you have (conveniently) overlooked the story of Jesus and the expensive hair oil. You may want to read Jesus' quote concerning the poor in this situation.

Jesus was busy getting off on some chick lotioning him up. It had nothing to do with the poor and the criticism from the apostle was valid.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

A lot of Atheists also claim to be humanists but I don't see them hocking all their belongings to 'feed the poors' as you so eloquently put it.

Christians are told that God will provide for all of their needs; atheists don't have that to rely on, so they need to save for rainy days and retirement.

Christians are told that those who go hungry will be rewarded in Heaven and those who are full and comforted now will experience "woe". Atheists generally don't have this expectation.

Also, not all atheists are humanists.

I also think there's a difference in scale of the hypocrisy involved in not giving your absolute maximim to charity versus the hypocrisy of a church adorning it and its priests in gold and owning a bank. "Don't store up your treasures on Earth" loses something when it's preached from a golden throne.

 

[BSM1]

No ommision here, i know that passage. I simply think the only way one could read actual endorsement of wealth in that passage is by simply being dishonest in order to push the prosperity Gospel agenda.

I think that subjective interpretation could lead to dogmatic disingenuousness.

 

[BSM1]

Jesus was busy getting off on some chick lotioning him up. It had nothing to do with the poor and the criticism from the apostle was valid.

Well there is that...

 

[Unification]

You should get a concordance and conduct a study on the words "Riches" & "Wealth".

You've decided that because some folks are rich,, that Jesus must be mad at them....

Money is not the root of all evil. The love of it is.

Nothing wrong with being rich,, just as long as you tithe to God what belongs to him. It is God who gives us the ability to gain wealth.

The concern of Jesus is that He knows many who are rich feel they have no need of anything and love their money.

Nicodemus was rich. Yet he was there to help take the body of Jesus and brought 100 pounds of myrrh and aloes. You sound bitter,, is it because you are poor and cannot get the items that will make your life more fun?

Tithing money is the largest fraudulent doctrine and commandment of man out there. But, ultimately it's on the individual(s) who blindly give for mostly salaries.

God does not dwell in temples made with hands... church buildings, so who is the tithe money going to?

Internal wealth and richness. Not external.

 

[Mr. Beebe]

God does not dwell in temples made with hands... church buildings, so who is the tithe money going to?

I can tell, you've never served in any capacity in a Church. How do you think it gets heat in the winter or running water, or trash service? Do you think the Pastor should take care of the Church, prepare a sermon every week. Attend funerals, visit the sick, hold memorials, drive all over the place. listen to the problems of everybody,, at all hours of the night. The Pastor needs to eat and pay his bills as well as everybody else.

The tithe also goes to health Ministries,, insurance,,,, books and supplies, a food pantry to help people who are without and on and on.

Our Church gave out 28 Christmas baskets to needy families that had children. If it wasn't for the generous people at my church,, 28 families with children would have woke up on Christmas morning with nothing. We made sure, they had plenty of food,, a complete Christmas dinner with all the trimmings,,each family was given a 14 pound Turkey and 20 Chicken legs,,,toys for their children,, all sorts of candy and nuts and fruit,,,,hats and gloves for kids.

I could get very detailed if I wanted to,, because I have the Monthly financial report in front of me. You see, I'm also a Board Member. So,, I know where the money is going, you do not.

Just because you see some false teachers getting rich off of the gospel,, you've decided that they all must be false, and that every church is out to get rich off the backs of their congregations. Again,,you would be wrong.

But,, I don't think you really care to know the truth. It seems your mind is made up.

 

[Unification]

I can tell, you've never served in any capacity in a Church. How do you think it gets heat in the winter or running water, or trash service? Do you think the Pastor should take care of the Church, prepare a sermon every week. Attend funerals, visit the sick, hold memorials, drive all over the place. listen to the problems of everybody,, at all hours of the night. The Pastor needs to eat and pay his bills as well as everybody else.

The tithe also goes to health Ministries,, insurance,,,, books and supplies, a food pantry to help people who are without and on and on.

Our Church gave out 28 Christmas baskets to needy families that had children. If it wasn't for the generous people at my church,, 28 families with children would have woke up on Christmas morning with nothing. We made sure, they had plenty of food,, a complete Christmas dinner with all the trimmings,,each family was given a 14 pound Turkey and 20 Chicken legs,,,toys for their children,, all sorts of candy and nuts and fruit,,,,hats and gloves for kids.

I could get very detailed if I wanted to,, because I have the Monthly financial report in front of me. You see, I'm also a Board Member. So,, I know where the money is going, you do not.

Just because you see some false teachers getting rich off of the gospel,, you've decided that they all must be false, and that every church is out to get rich off the backs of their congregations. Again,,you would be wrong.

But,, I don't think you really care to know the truth. It seems your mind is made up.

Everyone is their own inner pastor/priest residing in their own church-their human body. People have a difficult time realizing they have a mind and heart of their own and can think and seek for themselves without reliance on being conditioned to what anyone else preaches and teaches. They rid of themselves of their freedom and are under jurisdictions of others.

Why aren't many visiting the sick and poor and helping themselves? All of those things can be done by each individual with their money and time rather than to a system. Why is this designated to one or a few men placed on a pedestal as perceived as more "holy?"

The outward pastor can just as easily work with his own two hands and not rely on people's money.

I understand the good that is done with a small portion of the money. You've decided for me and have no issue lying.

You also don't need to sound off alarms for the work done.

 

[rusra02]

As you mentioned, both by his teaching and his example Jesus rejected a striving after riches. Not so the religious leaders of his day. Of them Luke 16:14 says "Now the Pharisees ...were money lovers." Just so the false religionists today who claim to be Christian and enrich themselves, IMO.

 

[Etritonakin]

Deu 10:14 Behold, the heaven and the heaven of heavens is the LORD'S thy God, the earth also, with all that therein is.

Hag 2:8 The silver is mine, and the gold is mine, saith the LORD of hosts

1Co 6:19 What? know ye not that your body is the temple of the Holy Ghost which is in you, which ye have of God, and ye are not your own?
1Co 6:20 For ye are bought with a price: therefore glorify God in your body, and in your spirit, which are God's.

God -and so Christ (by whom and for whom all things were made) -own everything -including us..... so being rich -in itself -is not un-Godly or against the teachings of Christ.

The meek will, after all, inherit the earth (and it is also written that even the heavens were formed to be inhabited).

Notice in the verses below, Christ did not say that the rich could not enter the kingdom of God -but that there riches would be problematic and cause difficulty.

One who is not rich does not have to decide between riches and obeying and loving God first.

Being rich brings opportunity for that temptation (though being poor might bring opportunity for temptation to steal, covet, etc...)

Luk 18:22 Now when Jesus heard these things, he said unto him, Yet lackest thou one thing: sell all that thou hast, and distribute unto the poor, and thou shalt have treasure in heaven: and come, follow me.
Luk 18:23 And when he heard this, he was very sorrowful: for he was very rich.
Luk 18:24 And when Jesus saw that he was very sorrowful, he said, How hardly shall they that have riches enter into the kingdom of God!
Luk 18:25 For it is easier for a camel to go through a needle's eye, than for a rich man to enter into the kingdom of God.
Luk 18:26 And they that heard it said, Who then can be saved?
Luk 18:27 And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.

I don't know anything about the religious leaders you mentioned -only God knows their hearts and should judge their deeds.

If you think a religious leader is scamming widows and the fatherless, etc., however, pleading their cause would not be wrong.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

The Pastor needs to eat and pay his bills as well as everybody else.

Jesus sent out his disciples with nothing more than a begging bowl and the clothes on their backs. What's wrong with that approach?

 

[Thana]

Christians are told that God will provide for all of their needs; atheists don't have that to rely on, so they need to save for rainy days and retirement.

Christians are told that those who go hungry will be rewarded in Heaven and those who are full and comforted now will experience "woe". Atheists generally don't have this expectation.

So are you trying to say that Christians don't save money or have retirement funds?

Also, not all atheists are humanists.

That is why I said 'A lot of Atheists are humanists' and not 'All Atheists are humanists'

I also think there's a difference in scale of the hypocrisy involved in not giving your absolute maximim to charity versus the hypocrisy of a church adorning it and its priests in gold and owning a bank. "Don't store up your treasures on Earth" loses something when it's preached from a golden throne.

Maybe, but hypocrisy is still hypocrisy.
I'm just a little tired of this focus on Christian issues, You know no other group is any better.

 

[George-ananda]

I think the concern about wealth in Christianity is not a very important. To use the best and most ornate for ritual purposes is fine with me. A true Christian leader (i.e. the Pope) is not interested in riches for riches' sake but it sometimes comes with the territory; not a biggie.

 

[Twilight Hue]

I think those pastors would contract out a professional hit on Jesus himself if he ever manifested and threatened their wealth and influence.

So much for the first go around. Nutins changed Jesus. Capisce?

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

So are you trying to say that Christians don't save money or have retirement funds?

I'm saying that saving for the future shows a lack of faith in God to meet our needs. I understand this from atheists, but not from Christians.

 

[ThirtyThree]

You know, this might seem unusual but I do not own a single piece of gold. Perhaps if someone gifted something to me that had sentimental value or spiritual value, I would accept and wear it. However, beyond that, I really do not care about such things. I do not care about the material finery on the earth, which I am sure is downright bizarre, considering my religion. I mean, if I became wealthy, I probably would use my wealth to change the world before I bought myself a mansion. I do not really want a mansion. I am also more comfortable wearing conservative clothing and eating the food most everyone else eats. I do not need to go to a restaurant where it is over five hundred dollars a plate. It just seems absurd to me and it always has. Then, I also have never smoked, done drugs, I do not drink and I should well be a nun for the fact I do not engage in sexual intercourse. However, back to money. Money is useful because with money, one can do a lot of things in this world. The love of money seems to be the problem for many. How about this? Balance greed with reason? If greed is negatively impacting your life, if you find yourself a slave to money, then you are serving money and not your deity or yourself. If money is instead your servant, I see no trouble.