weapons laws

[Panda]

You live in a small country and your argument is wrong for American standards.

That is just low, and really is not making any point, except that perhaps you think your own arguments are weak?

From my thread: http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...3-arguments-against-all-gun-control-laws.html

Argument: Gun control laws do not deter criminals - it only hinders the rights of the good people to self-protection while undermining the 2nd Amendment & the Constitution. Simply put - fear the government and those who fear your guns. People blaming guns for crimes is like Rosie O'Donald blaming her fork because she is fat.

Why would a criminal who would break the law in killing, stealing, and harming follow gun control laws?

Guns & crimes:

Gun control laws do not protect the public. Instead, they only hinder the right of the good people to self-protection while doing nothing to curb criminals of that very same advantage. Criminals who are willing to break the law in committing murder, larceny, assault, robbery, and other crimes will not be deterred by gun control laws. Only the law-abiding citizens will be prohibited from self-protection.

Imagine that you are a criminal. You will commit crimes - it's not a question of if or when, but where. If you would use a gun to threaten to harm in the course of your crime, which city, state, or county would you choose to commit your crime:

1) In a place that allows everyone to carry guns - even concealed weapons?
or
2) In a place where guns are banned or extremely restricted?

Rebuttal to "Guns control laws reduce crime" argument:

• New Jersey adopted what sponsors described as "the most stringent gun law" in the nation in 1966; two years later, the murder rate was up 46 percent and the reported robbery rate had nearly doubled. Source

• In 1976, Washington, D.C., enacted one of the most restrictive gun control laws in the nation. Since then, the city's murder rate has risen 134 percent while the national murder rate has dropped 2 percent. Source

Banning of handguns:

Our 2nd Amendment ensures that the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Banning a gun as practical as the handgun infringes our right. According to "The Bureau of Justice" only 115,308 of the prison population are women and over 1,479,726 are men. Simply put - guns don't kill people, women don't kill people, men kill people.

Majority of women are physically weaker than the majority of men. The ability for women to own handguns and concealed weapons is a specific case where handguns are beneficial in curbing crime. Simply allowing everyone to carry concealed weapons has positive externalities. What rapist would rape a woman if he knew that there is a 50-50% chance that a woman may be carrying? All women do not even have to carry - the simple fact that a law allows them to carry is enough to deter. Now imagine the opposite.

Gun control laws will not stop a rapist or a home burglar or a murderer - but I will bet you that a .45 to their heads will. __________________

Gun control hinders criminals by making guns more expensive and harder to get. The problem is Americas gun culture is leaking into my country and making more people here think that they need guns. If guns help so much why does the US have a higher murder rate than western Europe? It is because you have a gun culture. You are brought up to think that giving everyone guns will make it safer, that's like every country in the world having nukes is safer than only a small handful.

 

[McBell]

If gun control is supposed to reduce violent crime, then eventually this must be
demonstrated to be true, or gun control is no more than a hollow promise. However, most
criminologists admit (albeit reluctantly) that there is very little empirical support for the
claim that laws designed to reduce general access to firearms reduce criminal violence
(eg, Kleck 1997). Frequently, assertions that gun laws work turn out to be bogus. In
Canada, the government uses the falling homicide rate as support for their claim that gun
control laws are working. Unfortunately for this argument, the homicide rate has been
falling even faster in the United States.
Source WARNING:this is a PDF file
​

 

[Poisonshady313]

Impressive find

Thank you.

 

[Poisonshady313]

Gun control hinders criminals by making guns more expensive and harder to get.

Criminals, being criminals, probably aren't too terribly concerned that guns are more expensive. All they have to do is rob and/or kill someone for the money it costs to buy a gun on the black market. There you go with gun laws increasing crime. Or they smuggle guns from places that have them. There are ways for criminals to obtain guns... making laws to try and make that harder doesn't make sense... by definition, criminals don't follow laws.

The problem is Americas gun culture is leaking into my country and making more people here think that they need guns. If guns help so much why does the US have a higher murder rate than western Europe? It is because you have a gun culture. You are brought up to think that giving everyone guns will make it safer, that's like every country in the world having nukes is safer than only a small handful.

Our murder rate is ever declining, while yours is ever increasing. I know I must have posted the link that said so somewhere on this or the gun control thread.

Gun laws don't work. All they do is take the guns out of the hands of law abiding citizens.

"The most foolish mistake we could possibly make would be to allow the subject races to possess arms. History shows that all conquerors who have allowed their subject races to carry arms have prepared their own downfall by so doing."
- Adolf Hitler




Even Hitler knew you couldn't subjugate a nation without taking away their arms.

 

[Neo-Logic]

Neo-Logic,
Are you saying that fear is the reason you need guns?

No - I'm saying there are many reasons - practical ones at that - as to why one should NOT be hindered access to a gun. In America, it is our Constitutional right to begin with. Furthermore, there are reasons of self-defense, deterrance, recreational, protection, and the ideologies related to the ownership of a gun. For more info - read my thread in American politics section of political debates. There I argue on different grounds against gun contorl laws.

I do not argue that we all need guns. I argue that right and decision should be left to us - the individuals.

 

[Neo-Logic]

Gun control hinders criminals by making guns more expensive and harder to get. The problem is Americas gun culture is leaking into my country and making more people here think that they need guns. If guns help so much why does the US have a higher murder rate than western Europe? It is because you have a gun culture. You are brought up to think that giving everyone guns will make it safer, that's like every country in the world having nukes is safer than only a small handful.

1) If you are a criminal, you will not pass the background check to own a gun legally in the first place - unless you are going to be a first time offender. Therefore, making guns illegal for good citizens does not solve the issue that bad people will still get guns illegally from criminal sources.

2) America has a national GDP of of 13 trillion - that's more than the entire western europe combined. Our population is more also. With more money and more population of people - are you really asking why we have higher of something? I guarantee you we have higher cases of many things - liberty, economic success, immigration rate, crime rates, etc.

You present no arguable points and furthermore do not bear your burden of proof. The ideology of guns in America function differently than any other countries in both the historical aspect and the more practical. If you want to argue more on this - bring this into my gun control laws thread.