Were Jesus and Muhammad insane?

[oldbadger]

Psychiatric illness can effect a broad spectrum of people, but people who have grandiose delusions are more likely to believe their a god, or claim they communicate with a god.

Ah.... that's narrowed it down a bit. Grandiose Delusions, eh?
Are you a qualified Psychiatrist?
There is one on RF @adrian009 . I think we need his help.

 

[shmogie]

I personally don't think neither Jesus nor Muhammad ever existed, but if they did wouldn't they be considered lunatics or having a delusional disorder, or grandiose delusions that occur in people suffering from a wide range of psychiatric diseases, including schizophrenia. These patients are characterized by bizarre beliefs that one is omnipotent or powerful. These delusions typically are religious and supernatural.

So considering the preposterous things they said, wouldn't they be considered insane?

Your problem is, you have no evidence to prove what was said wasn't true. If it were true, then your psycho babble would be false. Since you don't know, your speculation is baseless and meaningless, a waste of time.

 

[Cobol]

Please...... do you think that John the Baptist existed?

I believe John the baptist was interpolated.

 

[shmogie]

Do you believe that? Seriously?
I don'#t think that he did.

Christians added that after he had gone. Jesus never made it to Meshiah status, sadly.

Wrong. The Gospel accounts were written within 30 - 50 years of the Crucifixion, He was the Messiah, the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Torah. There was no need for anybody to add anything, it was all there.

 

[Cobol]

You did not address the post. Thev first sentence of the review was:-
Religion and spirituality exert a significant role in the lives of many individuals, including people with schizophrenia.

........... which did not connect the illness directly to religious folks. Just incidental.......

In most cases religion is central and common with schizophrenia.

Religious experiences involve auditory and/or visual hallucinations and those with schizophrenia commonly report similar hallucinations, along with a variety beliefs that are commonly recognized by modern medical practitioners as delusional.

Your views on this subject lead you to make assertions according to what might be pleasing to your imagination, instead of appealing to evidence, rationality, or reality.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Psychiatric illness can effect a broad spectrum of people, but people who have grandiose delusions are more likely to believe their a god, or claim they communicate with a god.

Ah.... that's narrowed it down a bit. Grandiose Delusions, eh?
Are you a qualified Psychiatrist?
There is one on RF @adrian009 . I think we need his help.

I'm not aware of any evidence to suggest religious people are more prone to delusions.

Depression is much more common than schizophrenia and there appears to be evidence to suggest higher rates of depression amongst those with no religious affiliation compared to having a religion.

Religion and depression: a review of the literature. - PubMed - NCBI

From the perspective of a clinician I see many people with chronic depression that have no religion and struggle with meaning and perspective in life during difficult times.

I spent 7 years working in psychiatry but have spent the last 10 years working as a GP in a relatively socioeconomically deprived area. Mental health problems are a major epidemic of our time.

Hope that helps.

PS I don't believe either Jesus or Muhammad were insane

 

[Cobol]

I'm not aware of any evidence to suggest religious people are more prone to delusions.

My statement was that people who have grandiose delusions, are more likely to think their god, or speak to god,
not that religious people are prone to delusions.

 

[Dawnofhope]

My statement was that people who have grandiose delusions, are more likely to think their god, or speak to god,
not that all religious people have delusions.

I hear that and my response stands. We all having something in our psyche were we can see ourselves as very special whether we are religious or not.

I'm happy to review my opinion if you can find evidence to the contrary. However I have seen many people with no religion who have grandiose delusions. For example one patient thought the CIA were monitoring him because he had this special insight and knowledge that would make him a threat. Some paranoia in there for sure but also grandiosity too.

One person thinks he's a genius because he's discovered the underlying formula that explains everything in the universe.

Maybe the most common delusions revolve around being famous or having special talents, powers and insights where as their abilities are much more modest.

 

[Cobol]

However I have seen many people with no religion who have grandiose delusions.

I would never assert that every case involves religion. I'm fully aware that not all delusions are religious based.

My research into studies say people who have grandiose delusions are more than likely to have a religious element.

 

[Dawnofhope]

I would never assert that every case involves religion. I'm fully aware that not all delusions are religious based.

My research into studies say people who have grandiose delusions are more than likely to have a religious element.

I'm very happy to review your research.

 

[Cobol]

Here is one study. There are more, i just have to relocate them. I have to go eat now, so wont be back for an hour.

Psychological characteristics of religious delusions

 

[oldbadger]

I believe John the baptist was interpolated.

Ah, so..... you don't believe that John the Baptist was a real person.
That's ok.... what you believe in, or not, is up to you.

 

[oldbadger]

Your views on this subject lead you to make assertions according to what might be pleasing to your imagination, .

I don't have views about mental disability and beliefs.
I asked questions, but your answers do appear to differ from Chakrabarti's, that's all.

 

[Baroodi]

Do you not know anything?

There have been plenty of crazy people claiming to be prophets, or a god in history, and modern times with a following.

 

[Baroodi]

Please give names of those crazy people with followers. Do you mean crazy because of novel ideas as we some time label sane people as crazy or because they are madly ill

 

[Baroodi]

How a crazy man can be the top of a list of 100 greatest men of mankind? Don't tell me the author of that book is crazy as well

 

[oldbadger]

Wrong. The Gospel accounts were written within 30 - 50 years of the Crucifixion, He was the Messiah, the fulfillment of the prophecies of the Torah. There was no need for anybody to add anything, it was all there.

My studies lead me to believe that ardent Christians adapted, adjusted, added, exaggerated and even fibbed about Yeshua BarYosef and his attempts to initiate a mission, or rising up of the working Jews for a return of the old laws, discarded by the priesthood.

They also messed with secular histories such as written by Josephus.

I don't mean to challenge anybody's faiths or beliefs but you outright challenged me with 'Wrong'. I have acknowledged your post but will not respond to you again on this thread.... you need to write to the OP.

If you start a thread about Jesus being the Meshiah then I could respond to that, as long as it is not within a DIR.

OK?

 

[Cobol]

Please give names of those crazy people with followers. Do you mean crazy because of novel ideas as we some time label sane people as crazy or because they are madly ill

With a following:

Jesus Christ
Muhammad
Sun Myung Moon
Charles Manson
James Warren Jones
Marshall Applewhite
David Koresh
Aum Shinrikyo
Mark Prophet
Robert Earl Burton
L. Ron Hubbard
Bhagwan Shree Rajneesh
David “Moses”
Warren Jeffs
Elbert Eugene Spriggs
Tony Alamo
Wayne Bent
Matt F. Hale
Ervil Labarons
Carl Drew
Their are so many more it's pointless to list them all.

 

[Kemosloby]

Lets ask Jesus when he comes back.

 

[shmogie]

My studies lead me to believe that ardent Christians adapted, adjusted, added, exaggerated and even fibbed about Yeshua BarYosef and his attempts to initiate a mission, or rising up of the working Jews for a return of the old laws, discarded by the priesthood.

They also messed with secular histories such as written by Josephus.

I don't mean to challenge anybody's faiths or beliefs but you outright challenged me with 'Wrong'. I have acknowledged your post but will not respond to you again on this thread.... you need to write to the OP.

If you start a thread about Jesus being the Meshiah then I could respond to that, as long as it is not within a DIR.

OK?

My studies lead me to believe that ardent Christians adapted, adjusted, added, exaggerated and even fibbed about Yeshua BarYosef and his attempts to initiate a mission, or rising up of the working Jews for a return of the old laws, discarded by the priesthood.

They also messed with secular histories such as written by Josephus.

I don't mean to challenge anybody's faiths or beliefs but you outright challenged me with 'Wrong'. I have acknowledged your post but will not respond to you again on this thread.... you need to write to the OP.
Your studies have led you wrong. I too have studied, first, the history of the NT source documents, second, the history of the immediate post Apostolic Church and their documentation, and third, the linguistic nuances and word usage in Koine Greek, Christ WAS the Messiah meeting the criteria for Him of the OT scriptures, you are simply wrong.




If you start a thread about Jesus being the Meshiah then I could respond to that, as long as it is not within a DIR.

OK?