Were there 12 tribes of Israel, or were there actually 13?

[Deeje]

Here is an explanation for that question which I thought was interesting.....

The tribes, or families, of Israel descended from the sons of Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel. This patriarch had 12 sons—Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin. (Genesis 29:32–30:24; 35:16-18) Eleven of these brothers had tribes named after them, but no tribe was named after Joseph. Instead, two tribes were named after his sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, who received full status as tribal heads. So the number of tribes in Israel amounted to 13. Why, then, does the Bible usually speak of 12 tribes?

Among the Israelites, the men of the tribe of Levi were set apart for service at Jehovah’s tabernacle and later at the temple. Hence, they were exempted from military service. Jehovah told Moses: “Only the tribe of Levi you must not register, and the sum of them you must not take in among the sons of Israel. And you yourself appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of the Testimony and over all its utensils and over everything that belongs to it.”—Numbers 1:49, 50.

The Levites did not receive a territorial allotment in the Promised Land either. Rather, they were assigned 48 cities scattered throughout the territory of Israel.—Numbers 18:20-24; Joshua 21:41.

For these two reasons, the tribe of Levi was not generally included when the tribes were listed. The tribes of Israel were thus usually numbered as 12.—Numbers 1:1-15.

Just sharing for those interested.....

 

[Kenny]

Here is an explanation for that question which I thought was interesting.....

The tribes, or families, of Israel descended from the sons of Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel. This patriarch had 12 sons—Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin. (Genesis 29:32–30:24; 35:16-18) Eleven of these brothers had tribes named after them, but no tribe was named after Joseph. Instead, two tribes were named after his sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, who received full status as tribal heads. So the number of tribes in Israel amounted to 13. Why, then, does the Bible usually speak of 12 tribes?

Among the Israelites, the men of the tribe of Levi were set apart for service at Jehovah’s tabernacle and later at the temple. Hence, they were exempted from military service. Jehovah told Moses: “Only the tribe of Levi you must not register, and the sum of them you must not take in among the sons of Israel. And you yourself appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of the Testimony and over all its utensils and over everything that belongs to it.”—Numbers 1:49, 50.

The Levites did not receive a territorial allotment in the Promised Land either. Rather, they were assigned 48 cities scattered throughout the territory of Israel.—Numbers 18:20-24; Joshua 21:41.

For these two reasons, the tribe of Levi was not generally included when the tribes were listed. The tribes of Israel were thus usually numbered as 12.—Numbers 1:1-15.

Just sharing for those interested.....

As always... a great breakdown! Great job!

Another tidbit I found interesting is the formation of a cross when they travelled with the Tabernacle of Moses.

 

[LightofTruth]

View attachment 47663


As always... a great breakdown! Great job!

Another tidbit I found interesting is the formation of a cross when they travelled with the Tabernacle of Moses.

The four divisions of the encampments of the Children of Israel and their banners are significant in the book of Revelation

Rev 4:6 And before the throne was something like a sea of glass, like crystal, and in the midst of the throne and around the throne were four living creatures full of eyes in front and in back.
Rev 4:7 And the first living creature was similar to a lion (Judah), and the second living creature was similar to an ox (Ephriam), and the third living creature had a face like a man's(Reuben), and the fourth living creature was similar to an eagle (Dan) flying.

The Levites are represented by the 24 elders.(1 Chron 24:3-18)

Rev 4:4 And around the throne were twenty-four thrones, and seated on the thrones were twenty-four elders dressed in white clothing, and on their heads were gold crowns.

 

[37818]

@Deeje,
12 tribes to 12 tribes. Revelation 7:5-8.
In the Revelation, Dan is replaced by Manasses.

 

[Deeje]

Another tidbit I found interesting is the formation of a cross when they travelled with the Tabernacle of Moses.

Since there is no actual "cross" (as the instrument used to put Christ to death) in the Bible, (it is called a "stauros" meaning that it was an upright pole or stake) we see that organization of Israel’s encampment a little differently....

Here are some representations offered on Google and as you can see there is no cross.

Four is a number in the Bible representing completeness, like the "four corners of the earth" which has no corners. The four faces on the cherubs and the four wheels of the celestial chariot in Ezekiel.

The encampment, formed by God's specific order, demonstrates that complete four squareness.
There is no cross, except in the imagination of some who might wish to see it.

 

[Kenny]

Since there is no actual "cross" (as the instrument used to put Christ to death) in the Bible, (it is called a "stauros" meaning that it was an upright pole or stake) we see that organization of Israel’s encampment a little differently....

Here are some representations offered on Google and as you can see there is no cross.

Four is a number in the Bible representing completeness, like the "four corners of the earth" which has no corners. The four faces on the cherubs and the four wheels of the celestial chariot in Ezekiel.

The encampment, formed by God's specific order, demonstrates that complete four squareness.
There is no cross, except in the imagination of some who might wish to see it.

LOL... Wel.... I guess we will never know until Jesus comes and we ask him.

Was Jesus crucified on a cross, pole, or stake? | GotQuestions.org

 

[Deeje]

LOL... Wel.... I guess we will never know until Jesus comes and we ask him.

Was Jesus crucified on a cross, pole, or stake? | GotQuestions.org

It is an interesting topic but really the shape of the instrument is not the most important thing...what matters most is making an image into an object of worship.

The second of the 10 Commandments was...
"You shall not make for yourself a carved image, or any likeness of anything that is in heaven above, or that is in the earth beneath, or that is in the water under the earth. 5 You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I the Lord your God am a jealous God, visiting the iniquity of the fathers on the children to the third and the fourth generation of those who hate me..." (Exodus 20:4-5)

That being the case, no images should adorn our houses, places of worship, or our bodies or anywhere else if they are part of our worship. It is idolatry.

As for the pagan roots of the cross...they are very grubby indeed.

"Both the noun and the verb stauroo, ‘to fasten to a stake or pale,’ are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed ‘cross.’ The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz… the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the ‘cross’ of Christ.” (Vine)

When the classical Greek writers used the word stauroo or stauros, they never meant a T-shaped cross, but rather a simple pole – a straight piece of wood or stake WITHOUT A CROSS BAR!

Cross, Crucify - Vine's Expository Dictionary of NT Words -

The cross itself was a religious symbol at least a thousand years before Jesus walked the earth. If you remember the women of Israel were seen "weeping over the god Tammuz" (Ezekiel 8:13-14) so the sacred tau was the first letter of his name....in the form of a cross. Its association with a false deity should make us pause for a moment and ask if this really is a good way to honor Christ?

Another Biblical picture of what the so-called “cross” looked like is revealed in John 3:14.
"And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of man be lifted up."

So Jesus was to be lifted up in the same fashion as Moses lifted up the brass serpent. What was that brass serpent lifted up on? Was it a cross?

Numbers 21:9. "And Moses made a serpent of brass, and put it upon a pole…"

And in the exact same way, Jesus was lifted up – not on a cross, but on a stauros… a POLE or STAKE!


What about the ankh cross seen in Egyptian art and hieroglyphs?

What does it suggest as the Egyptians viewed it? It was actually the symbol of life.....for copulation, with the loop representing the female genitalia and the cross on the lower part, the male reproductive organ. Are you getting a better picture of its origins now? Would God want the sacrifice of his son associated with something like that?

Crosses have very unsavory origins taking us back to Babylon...the place where all false religious ideas began with Nimrod. Tammuz was actually another name for Nimrod....the dying god in Winter who was resurrected in the Spring, which eventually formed the foundation for "Easter". There is no "Easter" in the Bible. Ishtar (pronounced Easter) was a fertility goddess whose symbols were rabbits and eggs.....you can do the math....

 

[Kenny]

It is an interesting topic but really the shape of the instrument is not the most important thing...what matters most is making an image into an object of worship.

Yes... making anything an object of worship is wrong. And, as you said, the shape of the instrument is not the most important thing, although fulfilling scripture is still important... it was the work of Jesus that is the most important thing.

When the classical Greek writers used the word stauroo or stauros, they never meant a T-shaped cross, but rather a simple pole – a straight piece of wood or stake WITHOUT A CROSS BAR!

As I said, we will never know. It is a possibility but there is nothing to verify since Romans did use poles as well as poles with a cross bar on it.

Crosses have very unsavory origins taking us back to Babylon..

That may be true... but I don't think that is relevant. Pharaoh's magicians turned their rods into snakes--unsavory... but it didn't detract that Moses' rod was still "savory"

 

[Deeje]

Yes... making anything an object of worship is wrong. And, as you said, the shape of the instrument is not the most important thing, although fulfilling scripture is still important... it was the work of Jesus that is the most important thing.

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 always sticks in my mind whenever Christmas or Easter are mentioned....

"14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,

“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty.”

Its not what is important to us....but what is important to God that matters. If we have adopted things into our worship that are from pagan sources, then we have contravened the words of the apostle Paul.....we have fused paganism with Christ's teachings. That makes our worship "unclean" in God's eyes. We are told not to "touch" these things, yet Christendom embraces them. Can there be excuses? These are the reason why I had to get out of Christendom.....in order to touch nothing "unclean" there was no choice.

 

[Kenny]

2 Corinthians 6:14-18 always sticks in my mind whenever Christmas or Easter are mentioned....

"14 Do not be unequally yoked with unbelievers. For what partnership has righteousness with lawlessness? Or what fellowship has light with darkness? 15 What accord has Christ with Belial? Or what portion does a believer share with an unbeliever? 16 What agreement has the temple of God with idols? For we are the temple of the living God; as God said,

“I will make my dwelling among them and walk among them,
and I will be their God,
and they shall be my people.
17 Therefore go out from their midst,
and be separate from them, says the Lord,
and touch no unclean thing;
then I will welcome you,
18 and I will be a father to you,
and you shall be sons and daughters to me,
says the Lord Almighty.”

Its not what is important to us....but what is important to God that matters. If we have adopted things into our worship that are from pagan sources, then we have contravened the words of the apostle Paul.....we have fused paganism with Christ's teachings. That makes our worship "unclean" in God's eyes. We are told not to "touch" these things, yet Christendom embraces them. Can there be excuses? These are the reason why I had to get out of Christendom.....in order to touch nothing "unclean" there was no choice.

Yes, I know that those are your sticky points. I don't think the scripture applies to you point since no idols are involved. I am not aware that anyone worships Easter or Christmas.

Besides... I am yoked with Jesus and with a wonderful believing wife. We live in this world but are not of this world

 

[Deeje]

I don't think the scripture applies to you point since no idols are involved. I am not aware that anyone worships Easter or Christmas.

The cross has become an idol to many. And Easter and Christmas are very much tied into worship at most churches they are the days of best attendance (and money in the coffers)

Besides... I am yoked with Jesus and with a wonderful believing wife. We live in this world but are not of this world

I am pleased for you.....not all are blessed with mates who believe as they do.

Being 'part of the world' also means being involved with its political goals and ambitions.....also not something we would touch, because it is not the same neutral stance that Jesus took. He stayed right out of that mess.

 

[Kenny]

The cross has become an idol to many. And Easter and Christmas are very much tied into worship at most churches they are the days of best attendance (and money in the coffers)

I think the "money in the coffers" is a very judgmental statement. Obviously if more people come offerings go up. I would assume that if more people come to your location, offerings are up too.

Coming on Easter or Christmas is no more an idol than you going on your Sabbath IMV.

I am pleased for you.....not all are blessed with mates who believe as they do.

Being 'part of the world' also means being involved with its political goals and ambitions.....also not something we would touch, because it is not the same neutral stance that Jesus took. He stayed right out of that mess.

Yes, if you are part of the world. But if you are "in the world and not of the world", one can still be involve in politics - just your driving force is different.

Jesus didn't "stay neutral"... he came to "influence and change" the world. That isn't neutral. And, for that matter, he came for a specific purpose. He never told anyone "stop being involved in the marketplace" that you are part of. For that matter, most still have jobs as far as I know.

 

[Deeje]

I think the "money in the coffers" is a very judgmental statement. Obviously if more people come offerings go up. I would assume that if more people come to your location, offerings are up too.

The mainstream churches are dying as we can plainly see.....and there is no way that they are going to put a stop to the celebrations that make them the most money in a whole year. They know that both Christmas and Easter have pagan origins, but they stick a thin "Christian" veneer over the top and celebrate them in much the same way as the pagans did. Is that OK with God?

Christ was not born on December 25th and they know it. As a Jew, Jesus did not celebrate his own birthday because it was viewed as a pagan practice associated with astrology and magic. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)...which is why you will find no birthdates ever recorded in the Bible. Christmas is nothing more than the Saturnalia dressed up in disguise. It honors Mithra, not Christ.

Easter is an even more blatantly pagan festival. There is no mention of Easter in the bible because she was a fertility goddess worshipped at the same time of year as Christ died. They didn't even change the name! Her symbols were rabbits and eggs...are you honestly going to tell me that God approves of these in light of 2 Corinthians 6:14-18?

Coming on Easter or Christmas is no more an idol than you going on your Sabbath IMV.

JW's do not observe the Sabbath. You seem to be mixing us up with SDA's.

Yes, if you are part of the world. But if you are "in the world and not of the world", one can still be involve in politics - just your driving force is different.

LOL....justification much?

Who did Jesus say was in control of the "whole world"? (1 John 5:19) What part of the "whole" world does he not control then? Remember when the devil tried to tempt Jesus into worshipping him? What did he say?
"So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. 6 Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 If you, therefore, do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.” 8 In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” (Luke 4:5-8)

Seriously, the devil is the puppeteer behind all the world's political activities....if you engage in that world, you are part of it, upholding the devil's rulership. How is that not obvious?

Jesus didn't "stay neutral"...

Politically he did. He did not meddle in the rule of the Roman Empire. The Jewish Zealots were planning an overthrow and it it ended badly for them. (Remember Masada?) The Christians kept right out of that world.

he came to "influence and change" the world. That isn't neutral. And, for that matter, he came for a specific purpose. He never told anyone "stop being involved in the marketplace" that you are part of. For that matter, most still have jobs as far as I know.

You are conflating some positions here IMO.....Jesus came to influence people spiritually, not politically. He had already had his temptations from the devil so he was fully aware of who was running the show. He never once influenced his disciples to meddle in politics. They always remained politically neutral. There was a reason...."the appointed times of the nations" (Gentile times) had to run their course. Rome was yet to be followed by other kingdoms before the foretold "end" of this world system. (Luke 21:24)

Now "the market place" was a different story. People needed to earn a living and Jesus always taught his disciples the value of honesty in business. There was no prohibition on honest employment.

Paul was a tentmaker by trade and he earned his living that way so as not to be a financial burden on his brothers (Acts 18:1-4; 2 Thessalonians 3:7-8).....unlike the clergy of today who stand there with their hand out expecting to be 'reimbursed' for their efforts. They are servants, not employees. No one should make a living off serving God....all who served God with Jesus did so on a voluntary basis and their needs were provided for.....not a house and a car and expenses....just a place to sleep and enough food to keep them going. Nothing more was expected. Jews were taught by Jehovah to be hospitable.

 

[Kenny]

The mainstream churches are dying as we can plainly see.....and there is no way that they are going to put a stop to the celebrations that make them the most money in a whole year. They know that both Christmas and Easter have pagan origins, but they stick a thin "Christian" veneer over the top and celebrate them in much the same way as the pagans did. Is that OK with God?

Christ was not born on December 25th and they know it. As a Jew, Jesus did not celebrate his own birthday because it was viewed as a pagan practice associated with astrology and magic. (Deuteronomy 18:9-12)...which is why you will find no birthdates ever recorded in the Bible. Christmas is nothing more than the Saturnalia dressed up in disguise. It honors Mithra, not Christ.

Easter is an even more blatantly pagan festival. There is no mention of Easter in the bible because she was a fertility goddess worshipped at the same time of year as Christ died. They didn't even change the name! Her symbols were rabbits and eggs...are you honestly going to tell me that God approves of these in light of 2 Corinthians 6:14-18?

I know you always like to get on your soapbox as you change what we are talking about... But, no, Christianity isn't dying and there is only one church. Christianity continues to grow.

So... back to what we were talking about... no one worships Christmas or Easter... they worship Jesus.

JW's do not observe the Sabbath. You seem to be mixing us up with SDA's.

Then call it your twice a week meetings... the point was, did you meet for "more money"? No. So don't judge the hearts of people and churches. What did Jesus say about judging hearts?

LOL....justification much?

Who did Jesus say was in control of the "whole world"? (1 John 5:19) What part of the "whole" world does he not control then? Remember when the devil tried to tempt Jesus into worshipping him? What did he say?
"So he brought him up and showed him all the kingdoms of the inhabited earth in an instant of time. 6 Then the Devil said to him: “I will give you all this authority and their glory, because it has been handed over to me, and I give it to whomever I wish. 7 If you, therefore, do an act of worship before me, it will all be yours.” 8 In reply Jesus said to him: “It is written, ‘It is Jehovah your God you must worship, and it is to him alone you must render sacred service.’” (Luke 4:5-8)

Seriously, the devil is the puppeteer behind all the world's political activities....if you engage in that world, you are part of it, upholding the devil's rulership. How is that not obvious?

That was "BEFORE" the resurrection! Not to mention, "The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof"

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost:

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death.

Now you have the war for the souls of men between the Kingdom of God and the influence of the god of this world.

Politically he did. He did not meddle in the rule of the Roman Empire. The Jewish Zealots were planning an overthrow and it it ended badly for them. (Remember Masada?) The Christians kept right out of that world.

Depends on how you translate it. NLT Now Jesus was standing before Pilate, the Roman governor. “Are you the king of the Jews?” the governor asked him. Jesus replied, “You have said it.”

No matter how you slice it, he still impacted and confronted the kingdoms of this world. Though a spiritual fight, it has natural manifestations.

If you influence people spiritually, in manifests in their politics. When the governments are on His shoulders, governments change.

You are conflating some positions here IMO.....Jesus came to influence people spiritually, not politically. He had already had his temptations from the devil so he was fully aware of who was running the show. He never once influenced his disciples to meddle in politics. They always remained politically neutral. There was a reason...."the appointed times of the nations" (Gentile times) had to run their course. Rome was yet to be followed by other kingdoms before the foretold "end" of this world system. (Luke 21:24)

Now "the market place" was a different story. People needed to earn a living and Jesus always taught his disciples the value of honesty in business. There was no prohibition on honest employment.

Paul was a tentmaker by trade and he earned his living that way so as not to be a financial burden on his brothers (Acts 18:1-4; 2 Thessalonians 3:7-8).....unlike the clergy of today who stand there with their hand out expecting to be 'reimbursed' for their efforts. They are servants, not employees. No one should make a living off serving God....all who served God with Jesus did so on a voluntary basis and their needs were provided for.....not a house and a car and expenses....just a place to sleep and enough food to keep them going. Nothing more was expected. Jews were taught by Jehovah to be hospitable.

Yes... and just like God had Kings and Prophets and Priests involved in the governing of Israel... He is still involved in today's political system. If you take the light out of the political system, you have nothing but darkness.

And, yes, let us be hospitable!

 

[Deeje]

I know you always like to get on your soapbox as you change what we are talking about... But, no, Christianity isn't dying and there is only one church. Christianity continues to grow.

LOL “soapbox”? You mean like the one Jesus used to expose the hypocrisy of the Jewish leadership back in his day?

Apparently the words spoken from the soapbox still sting?

Christendom in no way represents Christianity, and that is not just my opinion, it is my personal experience, having spent the last 50 years speaking to people and ministers of all denominations and faiths about their beliefs and practices. When you know what the Bible teaches, you cannot in all conscience celebrate pagan festivals which have merely been re-labeled, as somehow honoring Christ. (2 Corinthians 6:14-18)

Most people have no idea where their beliefs and practices originated, and trust their clergy to tell them the truth. How sad that they (and even some of their clergy) have been lied to for centuries!

no one worships Christmas or Easter... they worship Jesus.

Jesus never once asked to be worshipped. He said that our worship was to be given to "God alone" (Luke 4:5-8)....he never claimed to be God. (John 17:3) That doctrine was officially introduced centuries after Jesus' death.

Then call it your twice a week meetings... the point was, did you meet for "more money"? No. So don't judge the hearts of people and churches. What did Jesus say about judging hearts?

Paul said that we must meet together to “incite to love and fine works”. (Hebrews 10:24-25) Donating money for the work of the Lord was a matter of the heart, not a demand for money to keep the minister in a job.
I remember the emphasis placed on money in my former church. Letters were even circulated in some churches that they would lose their minister if more money was not put in the box. I gave you Paul's example.

Let me also give you a local example where I live. The minister of my former church was offered a position in the military as a chaplain. (no conflict of interest with Jesus commands there much?) The pay rate was that of a captain. He left his congregation with no pastor to take up that new “job”. What do you suppose the motivation was? Or the minister of another local church who took up a position with better pay by becoming a chaplain on the professional golfing circuit. He spent half his time playing golf.....and hetoo left his congregation in the lurch to better himself. Should financial gain ever be the motivation behind service to God?

Add to that the number of men I have personally spoken to who decided against the life of a minster because the pay was too low. It was considered a career choice and apparently the pay was the main consideration...?

Scripturally, anyone who serves God because of personal gain has already disqualified themselves from any part with Jesus. And anyone who serves up pagan celebrations as “Christian” observances is likewise going to feel God's displeasure in the same way as Israel did when they tried to do the same thing.
You can justify it all you like, but none of it will wash with God IMO.
Justification is a trap. No one learns from the lessons of history....

That was "BEFORE" the resurrection! Not to mention, "The earth is the Lord's and the fullness thereof"

How does that nullify 1 John 5:19...or Psalm 115:16?

 

[Deeje]

Matthew 28:18 And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth. 19 Go ye therefore, and teach all nations, baptizing them in the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost

Since Jesus received the power that was “given” to him, please tell me who can give God more power than he already has? Who can give God a name or position higher than what he already has? (Philippians 2:9)

The command to “Go...and teach” people of all nations and to baptize them as disciples was a commission for all who learned the truth. Those who received an invitation to come to Christ were to go and extend that invitation to others. (Revelation 22:17) When have the members of any church come to me with “the good news of the Kingdom”? Only once....and it was none of Christendom’s many denominations who knocked at my door. Why does Christendom never see that work as applying to them? Is it someone else’s job?

After learning the truth about the kingdom, I too knew that it was my obligation to bring that good news to others as Jesus commanded. Its not easy, but Jesus promised to be "with" his disciples in this work, which was to be continued right up till the "end of the age". (Matthew 10:11-15)

Revelation 1:18 I am he that liveth, and was dead; and, behold, I am alive for evermore, Amen; and have the keys of hell and of death

We will have a very different interpretation of that verse.
How does Jesus have “the keys of death and hell” when according to Christendom, those in hell have no door to unlock? They are in that miserable place for all eternity.
What is Jesus using that key for then? Visits to taunt the inmates perhaps?

The keys to "death and hades" to us, means that Jesus has the power to resurrect those subjects of death who are in their graves. He will then dispense with both because death will be abolished forever as "the last enemy"...and hades (the grave) will no longer exist. (Revelation 20:13-15; 1 Corinthians 15:26)

Now you have the war for the souls of men between the Kingdom of God and the influence of the god of this world.

“The god of this world” has the ability to “blind the minds” of those who are not open to the truth. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) So if the mind is blinded, nothing from any of the senses can be processed. None will “see” or “hear” what they don’t want to. (Matthew 13:15) There are always justifications and excuses.....they will try to tell them to Jesus...but he will have none of it. (Matthew 7:21-23)

Depends on how you translate it. NLT Now Jesus was standing before Pilate, the Roman governor. “Are you the king of the Jews?” the governor asked him. Jesus replied, “You have said it.”

Being the King of the Jews was in no way a political position. The Jews were a theocracy, not a form of human governance. They had not had a king since Zedekiah, who was removed because of his wickedness. (Ezekiel 21:25-27) Jesus was “Shiloh” ("the one who has the legal right") who was prophesied to take up the crown, not of any earthly kingdom, but of God’s heavenly kingdom. (John 18:36)

No matter how you slice it, he still impacted and confronted the kingdoms of this world. Though a spiritual fight, it has natural manifestations.

If you influence people spiritually, in manifests in their politics. When the governments are on His shoulders, governments change.

Yes Jesus' teachings do influence people’s politics....once you see who is in control of this world’s political nations, you are reminded of the scriptural admonition to be “no part of the world” which mean not developing “friendship with the world” in any way....to do so makes one an “enemy of God”. (James 4:4)

When the governments of this world are brought to account for all the innocent blood they have spilled, no one will be found blameless. Those who spilled the blood and those who supported them will be found equally guilty according to scripture. We cannot do harm to anyone...not even our enemies. (Matthew 5:42-43)

The Kingdom will "come" but not in the way many are expecting. (Daniel 2:44)

Yes... and just like God had Kings and Prophets and Priests involved in the governing of Israel... He is still involved in today's political system. If you take the light out of the political system, you have nothing but darkness.

There is no way that can be true Ken. If “the whole world” is controlled by the devil, it is not our job to overthrow him....that is Jesus’ job...and he has his own superior army. The situation has no political solution because that is the whole point of the exercise in allowing the devil to prove his claims in the first place. He claimed that humans were better off making their own decisions without God telling them what to do. God does not interfere with the world’s governance because man is being caught in the act of reaping what he has sown. Telling humans apparently doesn't work....you have to show them, and even then many just don't get it.

I wish you could see this.....

 

[paarsurrey]

Since Jesus received the power that was “given” to him, please tell me who can give God more power than he already has? Who can give God a name or position higher than what he already has? (Philippians 2:9)

The command to “Go...and teach” people of all nations and to baptize them as disciples was a commission for all who learned the truth. Those who received an invitation to come to Christ were to go and extend that invitation to others. (Revelation 22:17) When have the members of any church come to me with “the good news of the Kingdom”? Only once....and it was none of Christendom’s many denominations who knocked at my door. Why does Christendom never see that work as applying to them? Is it someone else’s job?

After learning the truth about the kingdom, I too knew that it was my obligation to bring that good news to others as Jesus commanded. Its not easy, but Jesus promised to be "with" his disciples in this work, which was to be continued right up till the "end of the age". (Matthew 10:11-15)


We will have a very different interpretation of that verse.
How does Jesus have “the keys of death and hell” when according to Christendom, those in hell have no door to unlock? They are in that miserable place for all eternity.
What is Jesus using that key for then? Visits to taunt the inmates perhaps?

The keys to "death and hades" to us, means that Jesus has the power to resurrect those subjects of death who are in their graves. He will then dispense with both because death will be abolished forever as "the last enemy"...and hades (the grave) will no longer exist. (Revelation 20:13-15; 1 Corinthians 15:26)


“The god of this world” has the ability to “blind the minds” of those who are not open to the truth. (2 Corinthians 4:3-4) So if the mind is blinded, nothing from any of the senses can be processed. None will “see” or “hear” what they don’t want to. (Matthew 13:15) There are always justifications and excuses.....they will try to tell them to Jesus...but he will have none of it. (Matthew 7:21-23)


Being the King of the Jews was in no way a political position. The Jews were a theocracy, not a form of human governance. They had not had a king since Zedekiah, who was removed because of his wickedness. (Ezekiel 21:25-27) Jesus was “Shiloh” ("the one who has the legal right") who was prophesied to take up the crown, not of any earthly kingdom, but of God’s heavenly kingdom. (John 18:36)



Yes Jesus' teachings do influence people’s politics....once you see who is in control of this world’s political nations, you are reminded of the scriptural admonition to be “no part of the world” which mean not developing “friendship with the world” in any way....to do so makes one an “enemy of God”. (James 4:4)

When the governments of this world are brought to account for all the innocent blood they have spilled, no one will be found blameless. Those who spilled the blood and those who supported them will be found equally guilty according to scripture. We cannot do harm to anyone...not even our enemies. (Matthew 5:42-43)

The Kingdom will "come" but not in the way many are expecting. (Daniel 2:44)


There is no way that can be true Ken. If “the whole world” is controlled by the devil, it is not our job to overthrow him....that is Jesus’ job...and he has his own superior army. The situation has no political solution because that is the whole point of the exercise in allowing the devil to prove his claims in the first place. He claimed that humans were better off making their own decisions without God telling them what to do. God does not interfere with the world’s governance because man is being caught in the act of reaping what he has sown. Telling humans apparently doesn't work....you have to show them, and even then many just don't get it.

I wish you could see this.....

" The command to “Go...and teach” people of all nations and to baptize them as disciples was a commission for all who learned the truth."

Innocent Jesus never gave this command, I understand, as he told that he was sent to the Jewish people as a human prophet/messenger, and also as Jesus s/o Mary was born a Jew and died a natural death as a Jew and was Jew in between, please. Right?
Jesus s/o Mary never was a Christian, I figure. The author of the Book of Revelation* is controversial so that makes its text also controversial, as the reason suggests. Right?
Isn't it a disrespect to Jesus to attribute to Jesus , on flimsy grounds, such commandments that he never wrote himself and or never dictate to anybody, please? Right?
If yes , please quote from sources written by Jesus himself, please. Right?

Regards
________________
*"The author names himself as "John" in the text, but his precise identity remains a point of academic debate. "
*"Modern scholarship generally takes a different view,[2] with many considering that nothing can be known about the author except that he was a Christian prophet"
Book of Revelation - Wikipedia

 

[capumetu]

Here is an explanation for that question which I thought was interesting.....

The tribes, or families, of Israel descended from the sons of Jacob, whose name was changed to Israel. This patriarch had 12 sons—Reuben, Simeon, Levi, Judah, Dan, Naphtali, Gad, Asher, Issachar, Zebulun, Joseph, and Benjamin. (Genesis 29:32–30:24; 35:16-18) Eleven of these brothers had tribes named after them, but no tribe was named after Joseph. Instead, two tribes were named after his sons, Ephraim and Manasseh, who received full status as tribal heads. So the number of tribes in Israel amounted to 13. Why, then, does the Bible usually speak of 12 tribes?

Among the Israelites, the men of the tribe of Levi were set apart for service at Jehovah’s tabernacle and later at the temple. Hence, they were exempted from military service. Jehovah told Moses: “Only the tribe of Levi you must not register, and the sum of them you must not take in among the sons of Israel. And you yourself appoint the Levites over the tabernacle of the Testimony and over all its utensils and over everything that belongs to it.”—Numbers 1:49, 50.

The Levites did not receive a territorial allotment in the Promised Land either. Rather, they were assigned 48 cities scattered throughout the territory of Israel.—Numbers 18:20-24; Joshua 21:41.

For these two reasons, the tribe of Levi was not generally included when the tribes were listed. The tribes of Israel were thus usually numbered as 12.—Numbers 1:1-15.

Just sharing for those interested.....

Hi sis, when we studied this last week, I actually thought about posting that myself. Glad you did, that is new news to many.