IndigoChild5559
Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I have no opinion, since I have never died.
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What’s after death?
- Thread starter Jimmy
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
My view is summed up nicely in the following paragraph.
421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Speaking as a spiritualist and a veteran paranormal investigator, I believe that there is compelling evidence that verifies my mediumship abilities. I not only have sufficient documented evidence to substantiate my belief but also multiple eyewitnesses (the majority of whom were strangers that I never met and have never seen again) who confirmed what I told them about their deceased loved one(s), such as the first and last names of their living or deceased relatives, exact dates of key events in their lives, specific childhood memories that they have, memories of their family vacations, and specific places that they visited in the US or traveled to outside of the country. I usually don't even know their first or last name when I approach them unless it is revealed to me. I never ask for or searched the internet (such as social media) for any personal information about the people I do know that I've given a reading to. For example, my first reading I ever gave as a medium was with my first therapist (read it here), and she never revealed any personal information about herself or her family to me or to anyone else who knows me, and I did not have access to the internet at that time. It never crossed my mind to look for any kind of information about her, considering we were at a restaurant at the time. I've also given readings to two other therapists and two psychologists.
In addition to what I've written in one of my previous post here, I've shared how I knew when a friend of mine tragically died (read about it here), when my relatives died (read about it here), and when I've had extraordinary experiences that I couldn't confirm with other present witnesses or document with my ghost-hunting equipment, as I explained in a previous post here. I've spent two years posting on this forum about my personal experiences as a medium (such as this post here) and an experienced paranormal investigator (such as this post here) and commenting in several other threads as well. I've provided a great deal of specific detail about my personal experiences. I'm including the following posts in two additional threads to further demonstrate my point:
Where are the Dead?
I think this sounds like it makes sense.But I have read other passages that confuse me.:confused: I've been thinking about what you stated in your post, and it reinforces my conviction that what the Bible teaches about what happens to people after they die is clearly inaccurate and misleading...
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Where are the Dead?
... sometimes that spirit can come back to this world and cause paranormal things to happen. ... Correction: some invisible beings claim to be the spirits of those dead. That is contrary to what the Bible teaches /Ecl.9:5,10; Psal. 146:4), so these invisible beings are something else...
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Where are the Dead?
The better hypothesis is the one that better fits all the data including unusual things called paranormal. I've been researching and investigating the paranormal for nearly 16 years (16 next month). During these years, I've traveled across the country to research and investigate both suspected...
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Life From Dirt?
You are not quite right. Lacking a belief that a god did it is rational since there is no evidence for a god. I do not believe that a god did it or a pixie did it or even a leprechaun. But you don't know so it is a belief that no gods or pixies did it. It's a belief that it just happened...
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Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
People have various standards of believability as some really don't need any copious amounts of evidence making their standards low bar, while others need far more evidence over phenomena that occurs because of all the factors involved that could create such phenomena, and it's not always going to be earnestly concluded as something supernatural or spiritual in origin just because it comes across as appearing strange and unexplainable.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
No, and I would not conclude something was supernatural or spiritual in origin just because it appeared strange and unexplainable.
I would only conclude that after I have ruled out any other possible explanations.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
The thing is all it is so far is explainable, although like any investigation, it can take time through experimentation and cumulating information to solve it.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Everything is not explainable to have come about by natural means.
If it cannot be explained to have come about by natural means then it is called supernatural.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Everything is natural. There is no such thing as supernatural.
At least it is with people who have a higher standard of believability and are aware of the psychology involving the human brain and perception. Particularly with illusions and how it works.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Can you prove that? Otherwise it is only a bald assertion.
What is "bald assertion?" Well the name says it all, doesn't it? It's stating something without backing it up.
Logical Fallacy Lesson 4: Bald Assertion | Rational Response Squad
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
No. It's factual.
There is not a single proof of anything actually supernatural , ever, and you can take that to the bank.
The hard proof is the sheer, ultimate, and complete lack of anyone anywhere , now or in the past, producing anything factual on the matter that will convince those possessing higher standards of believability, and no one is going to produce it either because the supernatural has been and is clearly established as nothing more than an unsubstantiated notion with no real substance to show for it anywhere and anytime.
Try as hard as one wants but one will never produce any of it either without employing the use of trickery , tricks of perception, or props as all of it so far has been.
I'd say the bold assertions are on the ones with low to abysmal standards of believability.
Me, I'm just stating the plain facts as it stands about it.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
As I often tell atheists, proof is not what makes anything exist. Something either exists or not.
Proof is only what people want in order to know that something exists.
You will have your proof of the spiritual world when you die and find yourself there.
You can take that to the bank, although there won't be any banks there.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Claims are not proof without any substance to back it up with. ;0)As I often tell atheists, proof is not what makes anything exist. Something either exists or not.
Proof is only what people want in order to know that something exists.
You will have your proof of the spiritual world when you die and find yourself there.
You can take that to the bank, although there won't be any banks there.
We were dead before, and this life was the result. That's how it actually worked out.
Not the spiritual world, the natural world
I'd say it's going to happen again to both of us , we will remain forever in the natural realm, and neither of us will ever remember this debate between ourselves.
You'll certainly have your proof of the natural world as it's going to occur at some point, same as this point was. That's checkmate.
Of course , whats next is for the next two individuals to experience as egos , our next identity, is the only thing that really dies forever upon death as already been determined by science involving the brain and people who lose their personality and self identity even when alive as much as dead.
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Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
It is important to rule out any natural explanation in order to document genuine spirit activity. It isn't always easy to do, but it can be done with patience and diligence, as well as with the right combination of ghost-hunting devices, of which I have an arsenal at my disposal (listed here, second paragraph).
The journey beyond reasons light . . . maybe something or maybe nothing,
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I am not making any claims, I only have beliefs. I do not make claims about what I cannot prove.
I do not believe we were dead before we entered this world, we simply did not exist
I'd say that nobody is going to exist forever in the natural realm, since our physical bodies are not immortal.
The soul is immortal so it exists from the moment of conception, through our lives in the natural world, and continuing to exist forever in the spiritual realm of existence.
I already have my proof of the natural world since I am now living in it. I'll get my proof of the spiritual world when I enter it.
The brain dies upon physical death, but the brain is not the personality, the soul is the personality, so nobody loses their personality or self-identity when the brain dies.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I've always told skeptics that they can decide for themselves whether to believe me or not. If there are skeptics investigating a haunted location with me and they try to argue with me about any potential evidence, then I simply inform them that they witnessed the same evidence as everyone else who is participating in the investigation, and they can decide for themselves whether to accept the evidence and believe it is real or not. I let the chips fall where they may. I don't give them the chance to start arguing with me or draw me into a heated debate about whether the paranormal is real or not. I let them use my equipment and analyze the data for themselves. I invite them to analyze any documented data they want to scrutinize to their heart's content. If they ask me, "What is this?" such as in a digital picture or in an SLS or thermal image, then I'll say, "You tell me what you think it is." If they ask what I heard on an EVP, I'll say to them, "Tell me what you heard first, and then I'll tell you what I heard." It is important to me that I don't influence them in any way. I make it a point not to influence any skeptics into believing in the paranormal. If they're going to believe, then I want their belief to be genuine and based on a conclusion that they came to on their own without any interference from me. In all of my years of experience investigating the paranormal, I've come to strongly believe that seeing is believing. I've seen it happen time and time again with skeptics who were once adamant that the paranormal wasn't real.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
It won't matter, the truth will come out but unfortunately, neither of us would care one ioata once we're deceased.
Then the same thing happens all over again, life erupts, and maybe this time I'll be the raging supernaturalist and you're the adamant atheist, provided of course sapience is developed enough, and not some animals, or insects, or cells , or plants , when the lights come on for the next round of life.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
but we will care if we don't ever become deceased.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
Speaking as a paranormal investigator, I'm aware that some unusual phenomena can have natural causes, but I don't think this is the case for all of them. In fact, I believe that some supernatural phenomena occur in the physical world that neither modern science nor sacred religious texts (such as the Bible) or any religious dogma can rationally explain or logically refute. As I stated in another thread (read my post), I believe that there must be a fair balance between belief and skepticism when investigating a suspected haunted location, and I strive to achieve this balance whenever I conduct an investigation.
However, in spite of all the advanced, cutting-edge ghost-hunting equipment that I use, there are still some paranormal encounters that I was unable to properly document because they happened so quickly and ended just as quickly as they began. I've explained in another thread how I normally conduct my paranormal investigations, and if anyone is interested in knowing my usual methods, they may read my post here. It's not something that I take lightly.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I don't expect you to believe in spirits or believe that anyone has seen them because you're an atheist, Christine. That goes without saying. Despite the lingering skepticism, it is becoming more widely accepted and common in today's society to acknowledge the reality of ghosts and other paranormal phenomena. As denoted in the articles, the negative stigma associated with belief in the paranormal has declined significantly in the past 23 years.
According to a survey from October 2021, 63 percent of its participants (2,000 people aged 21 and over) believe in the paranormal in some form. The people surveyed said the most common unexplained beings they believe exist include ghosts (57%), aliens (39%), and Bigfoot (27%). A third (35%) of the people surveyed said they have felt an unexplained presence in their home, prompting them to believe that they are being haunted. Here is a link to the survey: "Paranormal Nation: Nearly two-thirds of Americans believe in ghosts or aliens." FYI, every year on May 3rd, there is a day set aside for those who believe in paranormal phenomena. It's known as National Paranormal Day. I've participated in it by conducting a paranormal investigation on that day.
Gallup Poll: One Third of Americans Believe in Ghosts (2000)
Americans' Belief in Psychic and Paranormal Phenomena Is up Over Last Decade (2001)
Three in Four Americans Believe in Paranormal (2005)
Brilliant Scientists Are Open-Minded about Paranormal Stuff, So Why Not You? (2012)
Spooky Number Of Americans Believe In Ghosts (2013; updated 2017)
Pew Research Center: 18% of Americans say they’ve seen a ghost (2015)
Paranormal America 2017 Chapman University Survey of American Fears (2017)
Paranormal America 2018 Chapman University Survey of American Fears (2018)
You Gov America: Many Americans believe ghosts and demons exist (2019)
Reports Of Paranormal Activity On The Rise During Coronavirus Stay-At-Home Orders (2020)
57 Percent of Americans Believe in Ghosts — and Many Think There's Paranormal Activity in Their Home (2021)
You Gov America: Two-thirds of Americans say they've had a paranormal encounter (2022)
Many Americans report interacting with dead relatives in dreams or other ways (2023)