How would it not be the real issue?
On what grounds would the Kaaba not be a human monument? It seems clear enough that there are a great many people earning money and attention due to it, too.
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What’s wrong with those clubs who erect human monuments in-order for people to decorate them?
- Thread starter sovietchild
- Start date
How would it not be the real issue?
On what grounds would the Kaaba not be a human monument? It seems clear enough that there are a great many people earning money and attention due to it, too.
sovietchild
Well-Known Member
The Kaaba was never built for the purpose to make money out of.
And yet it is one reason for people to visit Makkah - or to encourage them that much further to complete or repeat the Hajj, if you prefer to see it that way.
It stands to reason that so many pilgrims ought to create some earnings for many people. Maybe you doubt it?
My question still stands. How is the Kaaba any less of a moneytrap?
May i respectfully ask then for what purpose was it built ??
sovietchild
Well-Known Member
A house for Allah - The Creator.
Wasn't quite the First Temple, was it?
sovietchild
Well-Known Member
Wasn't quite the First Temple, was it?
You seem to know the history very well, tell me more about it.
McBell
Unbound
Now you are requesting off topic?
Oh I see. I have no idea what this is supposed to represent. I thought you meant something like these "human monuments":
Most statues I see are like this, very stately - but with little to no "decorations" of any kind, which would be discouraged in any case.
That last photo is a statue of Pancho Villa in downtown Tucson, which was a gift to the city from the mayor of Mexico City.
None. All religions do ask for charity though. Depends on the specific "club" what form that takes.
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
Still obsessed with idols, I see. Just build one, soviet.
sovietchild
Well-Known Member
Well, not quite because they decorate the tree, not the human statue.
Oh I get it, they think if one were to decorate it, one will get some kind of a profit/benefit. Don't they know what Quran says about this kind of practice?
[39:65] It has been revealed to you, and to those before you that if you ever commit idol worship, all your works will be nullified, and you will be with the losers.
@sovietchild , many or most people think of statues as objects of art and accept them fairly well as such.
People pay money for all kinds of things, up to and including less likely subjects such as for instance "ownership of land". I fail to see why access to statues and to the environments that they are place in would have to be an exception.
As for "idol worship", well, that just isn't something that happens very often at all.
I am well aware that many Muslims feel troubled by statues (more so when they have a religious function, I assume), but frankly, I still find that odd. Very few people indeed have any tendency to confuse a statue with some form of deity. I think you may be mistaken about the actual meaning and consequences of the use of religious statues.
Do you feel troubled by other works of art as well? Paintings, for instance? Music? Is it somehow wrong if a painter or musician earns money with his work? Or if an arts gallery manager does? If those works become touristic attractions, perhaps?
Edited to add: To be clear, while I sincerely feel that idol worship is actually very rare, I don't think the boundaries are necessarily very clear, nor that there it is truly wrong to worship idols as such. People relate to the sacred in a myriad ways, and there is no inherent harm in idol worship.
People pay money for all kinds of things, up to and including less likely subjects such as for instance "ownership of land". I fail to see why access to statues and to the environments that they are place in would have to be an exception.
As for "idol worship", well, that just isn't something that happens very often at all.
I am well aware that many Muslims feel troubled by statues (more so when they have a religious function, I assume), but frankly, I still find that odd. Very few people indeed have any tendency to confuse a statue with some form of deity. I think you may be mistaken about the actual meaning and consequences of the use of religious statues.
Do you feel troubled by other works of art as well? Paintings, for instance? Music? Is it somehow wrong if a painter or musician earns money with his work? Or if an arts gallery manager does? If those works become touristic attractions, perhaps?
Edited to add: To be clear, while I sincerely feel that idol worship is actually very rare, I don't think the boundaries are necessarily very clear, nor that there it is truly wrong to worship idols as such. People relate to the sacred in a myriad ways, and there is no inherent harm in idol worship.
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I don't really worship anything - except maybe beer.
But is it considered "worship" just to build a statue? Or is it just the decorating part that constitutes "worship"?
The Kilted Heathen
Crow FreyjasmaðR
"Idol worship" is a gross misunderstanding and misrepresentation of what is actually going on.
Father Heathen
Veteran Member
Ah, another engaging and insightful episode of "let's grossly misrepresent aspects of other religions while pretending that my own doesn't have an equivalent."
I've read a number of your threads, several of which accuse Christians of defaming Jesus and Mary for various depictions of them -- by using their own symbols of respect and veneration as evidence of some malfeasance toward Jesus and Mary.
I would like to apply your thinking toward other religions to your own in this case, and to the very topic of this thread -- the building of structures -- and ask that you tell me if, or why not, the same should apply for your religion.
I think the same level of dialogue is appropriate as that which you've used toward Christians since you got here.
How is it that human beings building a house for The Creator is not defaming The Creator?
How is it not arrogant defamation to build a structure in which to contain The Creator of all that is?
How is it not defaming The Creator to consider The Creator so small as to be able to be housed within such a small structure?
How arrogant and self exalting is it for humans to dare to think that The Creator of all that is, that created the elements, would need or benefit, from some portion of that Creation creating a creation to protect The Creator from the elements of The Creator's own creation?
Why do all those people walk around the structure? Are they trying to hold The Creator prisoner?
Who owns the hotels and the restaurants, and the travel mechanisms, and promotes people coming to this event?
How is this different from any other type of festival where people get together to feel good about doing something? Is this just a "feel good about how holy I am" event?
Why do you expect respect for your religious perspective when you won't offer the same to others who see things differently than you?