What about those

[Polymath257]

Yes. I kinda wish there's a disable comments for OP. It was meant for looking at positives. We know what's wrong but why aren't we talking about bringing the numbers down than yelling at why nbers go up.

because the way to bring the numbers down is the same as the way to keep them from going up?

 

[exchemist]

Yes. I kinda wish there's a disable comments for OP. It was meant for looking at positives. We know what's wrong but why aren't we talking about bringing the numbers down than yelling at why nbers go up.

Because most of the running on the subject seems to be from idiots arguing that wearing masks and following social distancing and other countermeasures, i.e. all the things that bring the numbers down, are an infringement of their personal liberty. There is no mystery about how to get the numbers down. People just need to stop whining and F-ing do it.

 

[Polymath257]

As for the OP:

There is a concept called triage. You don't spend your time on the cases that will get better on their own, nor on those that won't get better no matter what.

You spend your time on those that can be saved, but only by intervention.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

because the way to bring the numbers down is the same as the way to keep them from going up?

Huh?

The way to see people healing is the same to see people dying?

I know seeing deaths can be information purposes but they shouldn't be the cornerstone to drive action.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Because most of the running on the subject seems to be from idiots arguing that wearing masks and following social distancing and other countermeasures, i.e. all the things that bring the numbers down, are an infringement of their personal liberty. There is no mystery about how to get the numbers down. People just need to stop whining and F-ing do it.

But people need to look at their own demons. Why do both sides argue about this? It's besides the point regardless what side you guys are on.

 

[Polymath257]

Huh?

The way to see people healing is the same to see people dying?

I know seeing deaths can be information purposes but they shouldn't be the cornerstone to drive action.

I disagree. Saving those lives that can be saved should be the cornerstone of action, especially when we are in the thick of things. After the wave is past, we can focus on healing those who still show effects.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I disagree. Saving those lives that can be saved should be the cornerstone of action, especially when we are in the thick of things. After the wave is past, we can focus on healing those who still show effects.

If it's saving lives, why focus deaths (statistics) and focus on those recovering and ways we can do to help those recover not just those who die?

Seeing assumingly 200,000 people die in a short time period solves nothing. Seeing "but 100,000 are recovering" I would hope gives some hope that even though there are thousands of cases, people do get better.

 

[Polymath257]

If it's saving lives, why focus deaths (statistics) and focus on those recovering and ways we can do to help those recover not just those who die?

The people who are recovering aren't dying. The focus should be on saving those who are in the midst of the infection and need help to recover.

Seeing assumingly 200,000 people die in a short time period solves nothing. Seeing "but 100,000 are recovering" I would hope gives some hope that even though there are thousands of cases, people do get better.

That seems very backwards to me. Simple actions, like wearing a mask, will prevent the spread of this disease. That will prevent the horrid levels of deaths we are seeing right now.

THAT should be the focus: getting people to do the simple actions that mean not as many people will die.

There *is* hope: we have vaccines. We can get to the point they are commonly available *if* we take very simple measures.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The people who are recovering aren't dying. The focus should be on saving those who are in the midst of the infection and need help to recover.

Cancer organizations, for example, have testimonies of people getting better, or people getting healthy treatment, and things of that nature. I mean, if I were in the hospital dying the last thing I want to hear is thousands of people dying elsewhere and if I ask them what about people who are recovering, they say "what about them?"

I'm not saying on or the other. I just notice on RF in particular, we're focused on those who are positive (which isn't a death sentence) than those (even on RF) who are recovering or even have videos or whatever that people do care about others (don't throw them in a grave). Psychological health is just as important as physical health. Many people recover from COVID but psychologically, if all they see is death, then they'd go more into panic and anxiety than anything else.

Maybe it's just layman people but I've been patient in hospitals hundreds of times and I have yet to hear from a doctor "we don't care about you anymore since you're not severely hurt anymore."

 

[exchemist]

But people need to look at their own demons. Why do both sides argue about this? It's besides the point regardless what side you guys are on.

What are you talking about? This is nothing to do with "sides" - unless you mean idiots on one side and people that pay attention to medical advice on the other.

You ask how to get the numbers down. We know how to get the numbers down. It's by social distancing, wearing masks and carrying out the other countermeasures as directed. That's it. Simple. OK?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What are you talking about? You ask how to get the numbers down. We know how to get the numbers down. It's by social distancing, wearing masks and carrying out the other countermeasures as directed. That's it. Simple. OK?

No. I said "We know what's wrong but why aren't we talking about bringing the numbers down than yelling at why numbers go up"

Everything else is irrelevant to my comment.

 

[exchemist]

No. I said "We know what's wrong but why aren't we talking about bringing the numbers down than yelling at why numbers go up"

See post 22.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

See post 22.

It doesn't need to be a debate. I GET what you're saying and I read it; so no need for all of this-it's highly unnecessary. My overall OP point still stands (and evidenced on this thread, unfortunately), why not talk about the numbers going down and not just going up.

Whether you answered it somewhere in your comment or not, I couldn't tell since it went on a different topic that I didn't bring up at all.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I should have put this in the debate section.

 

[Polymath257]

No. I said "We know what's wrong but why aren't we talking about bringing the numbers down than yelling at why numbers go up"

Everything else is irrelevant to my comment.

Well, the point is that *right now* the numbers are going up. The first step to getting the numbers to go down is to get them not to go up.

And it is *exactly* what everyone has been saying: wear masks. Keep a distance.

That is HOW you get the numbers to go down. But nobody seems to want to do those basic things. So the numbers go up.

Do you remember 'leveling the curve'? That was all about keeping the numbers down.

Do you remember about learning that turning people on their front saves lives? That was all about making sure people recover.

Do you remember talking about treatments to help people recover? Like steroids?

Do you see the repeated statements to go for walks and exercise? That is all about mental health while keeping social distance.

Do you see the current stuff about vaccines? That is all about hope that we can get through this.

 

[Polymath257]

I should have put this in the debate section.

I can move it if you wish.

 

[Polymath257]

It doesn't need to be a debate. I GET what you're saying and I read it; so no need for all of this-it's highly unnecessary. My overall OP point still stands (and evidenced on this thread, unfortunately), why not talk about the numbers going down and not just going up.

Because the reality is that the numbers are going up?

What are you wanting? A happy piece talking about how some, even many people, recover from this?

Doesn't that just minimize the impact of this terrible disease?

If we had a new type of cancer that was spreading and killing as many people as this virus is, do you really think we should focus on those that recovered?

 

[exchemist]

It doesn't need to be a debate. I GET what you're saying and I read it; so no need for all of this-it's highly unnecessary. My overall OP point still stands (and evidenced on this thread, unfortunately), why not talk about the numbers going down and not just going up.

Whether you answered it somewhere in your comment or not, I couldn't tell since it went on a different topic that I didn't bring up at all.

But the numbers are NOT going down, in the USA at least. They are skyrocketing, as are the hospital admissions. So why would we talk about something dangerously imaginary?

Now, I can talk about the numbers going down in the UK if you prefer. Because they are, thanks to the semi-lockdown we have just had. Would you like to discuss that?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Well, the point is that *right now* the numbers are going up. The first step to getting the numbers to go down is to get them not to go up.

And it is *exactly* what everyone has been saying: wear masks. Keep a distance.

That is HOW you get the numbers to go down. But nobody seems to want to do those basic things. So the numbers go up.

Do you remember 'leveling the curve'? That was all about keeping the numbers down.

Do you remember about learning that turning people on their front saves lives? That was all about making sure people recover.

Do you remember talking about treatments to help people recover? Like steroids?

Do you see the repeated statements to go for walks and exercise? That is all about mental health while keeping social distance.

Do you see the current stuff about vaccines? That is all about hope that we can get through this.

Yes. But the whole point of the thread wasn't to get into a political debate over numbers. Maybe it's the way I smell, or something, but the whole thing was to focus on the positives and the video had nothing to do with politics. I can get upset over anything in the media, but not to where its going to make me fuss at others for it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I can move it if you wish.

Yeah. I'm not a political debater. But I'm sure many would like to talk about it nonetheless. Thanks.