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What are Hamas' leaders thinking?

Copernicus

Industrial Strength Linguist
Evidence exists and is being studied. See, for example:
Independent reviews of the evidence appears to suggest and errant Islamic Jihad missile. Muddying the waters with ad hoc conspiracy theories serves neither the victims nor the Israelis. It's simply propagating "alternative facts" consistent with one's biases and, as such, differs little methodologically from the claims being propagated by Hamas.

I made what was clearly a passing remark that I "wouldn't put it past" Hamas (or now Islamic Jihad) to have deliberately blown up the building themselves precisely because of the effect it would have on the now-delayed ground invasion, not to mention stoking up outrage. You keep spinning it as a "conspiracy theory" and "alternative facts", but false flag operations are not unprecedented. For fanatics, the end justifies the means sometimes. This is just an internet discussion board, and it is perfectly permissible here to air opinions about what might account for an event where all of the facts are not known.

I have said nothing to contradict the facts as reported, but Israel has been spinning video evidence from an Al Jazeera feed that Al Jazeera itself says has been misused by them:


Al Jazeera is trying to make it look like the tragedy was caused by a misfired rocket from the terrorists, but their analysis does not really explain what caused the explosion. It looks possible to me that debris from the Iron Dome defensive strike may have rained down on the ground and set off that explosion. Maybe it hit an ammo dump near the hospital. Maybe the cause was really just a misfired rocket that wasn't caught on video. We may never know.


What concerns me is what I consider an incontrovertible fact:
which concludes:

In sum, I am not suggesting that anyone should uncritically accept whatever Israel says. But that same skepticism should certainly extend to Hamas, a terrorist organization that is not noted for its devotion to either honesty or human decency. The “battle of the narrative” is more important than ever. That makes it all the more imperative that the world — journalists especially — not echo the claims of either side without first checking them out.​

That makes a lot of sense, and I agree with it up to a point. The problem is that it isn't clear what the facts are, and what people accept as facts tends to be reporting that confirms their biases. I think that Bloomberg's Marc Champion has a great take on how the truth gets buried in competing claims by both sides.

Gaza hospital tragedy escalates war risk, no matter who’s to blame


Truth, infamously, is the first casualty of war and that’s never more important to remember than after a major tragedy such as the reported strike on a Gaza hospital, with the death-toll estimate at about 500.

It isn’t just the scale and pain of the human loss that has shocked. The event also upended U.S. President Joe Biden’s visit to the region, where he had been due to meet separately with Israeli and Arab leaders on containing the conflict and getting aid to civilians in Gaza.

That latter summit has now been canceled, and inevitably so. Such is the outrage on the Arab Street that no regional leader can afford to be seen negotiating today with Israel’s most important ally. And whereas European lawmakers have avoided attributing blame while condemning the attack, Egypt and Saudi Arabia immediately pointed to Israel.

In a very small pool, Israel is a top suspect: It has been conducting an intense aerial bombing campaign with just the kind of heavy munitions that could collapse a hospital and cause mass casualties. Yet at this point, there are very few things that can be said with certainty and none concern the details of the attack or its perpetrators.

Obviously, we need to suspend judgment until all the facts are known, but we can never be sure that we've arrived at a time when all the facts are known.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
I hope not but this could get nasty real quick.

British warships, aircraft, and a force of Royal Marines are joining a US Navy carrier strike group in waters near Israel


Its starting to get a little nasty....

US Navy destroyer in Red Sea shoots down cruise missiles potentially headed toward Israel: Pentagon​




Drone strikes target US military bases in Syria, Iraq as regional tensions from Israel-Hamas War escalate​


 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Mass murder?,hardly,Hamas have had enough chances at peace but they’ve never been interested,eradicating Israel is the only aim,here’s their favourite chant “From the River to the Sea, Palestine Will Be Free”,you see they’re just like Isis,they want a caliphate.

America and their allies have killed almost half a million civilians in Iraq afghanistan Syria and nobody gives a crap but if Israel kills a 100 its mass murder.

I would recommend reading the Hamas charter and history of the region and the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood on the region for a better understanding of why Hamas and peace is oil to water.
I’ve nothing to add.
 

We Never Know

No Slack
To focus on the sins of Hamas alone is to
ignore Israel's oppression & mass murder
of Palestinians....which is why Hamas exists
& fights. Israel could seek peace & justice
for Palestinians....but it prefers to do what
it does, ie, unleash vengeance.
Well.....

From...

The Hamas Covenant

On the destruction of Israel:

"Israel will exist and will continue to exist until Islam will obliterate it, just as it obliterated others before it." (Preamble)"



"The charter states that "our struggle against the Jews is very great and very serious" and calls for the eventual creation of an Islamic state in Palestine, in place of Israel and the Palestinian Territories,[3] and the obliteration or dissolution of Israel"

 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Mass murder?,hardly,Hamas have had enough chances at peace but they’ve never been interested,eradicating Israel is the only aim,here’s their favourite chant “From the River to the Sea, Palestine Will Be Free”,you see they’re just like Isis,they want a caliphate.

America and their allies have killed almost half a million civilians in Iraq afghanistan Syria and nobody gives a crap but if Israel kills a 100 its mass murder.

I would recommend reading the Hamas charter and history of the region and the influence of the Muslim Brotherhood on the region for a better understanding of why Hamas and peace is oil to water.

What is this "Hardly" what part of Mass Murder .. over many decades . did you not understand ? Their main interest eradication of the palestinian vermin .. these animals. and what do you expect when you treat a caged animal poorly .. and it escapes from the cage to bite.

Hamas Shamas -- kill em all for I care .. just don't commit Genocide - war crimes - crimea against humanity on the Palestinian people while you go about it .. slaughtering civilians like animals in extremist Zionist frenzy. Israel been called out for war crimes so many times over the decades .. an illegal occupier .. .oppressing the occupied.. systemic oppression .. Nazi style in some cases .. in blissful irony.

got the right idea on Syria - Afghanistan the hypocrisy and inequality of life -- one worth more than the next .. brown black and white.

Who cares about the Hamas Charter .. how about the UN Charter .. might we follow that ? The occupied have the right to self defense against the external occupier .. just like our latest JV-Team in Ukraine .. should we not be helping the Palestinins similarly .. defend against a much larger and stronger aggressor.

Maybe we gonna see Turkey - Syria - Iran - Iraq - Saudi Arabia .. and apparently even the Houthi's want a piece and Lebanon- Hezbolla .. try to help the Palestinian people defend against the Occupier .. Then see how many Palestinian houses they be bulldozing the next year - like they been doing for decades ..
 

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
What is this "Hardly" what part of Mass Murder .. over many decades . did you not understand ? Their main interest eradication of the palestinian vermin .. these animals. and what do you expect when you treat a caged animal poorly .. and it escapes from the cage to bite.

Hamas Shamas -- kill em all for I care .. just don't commit Genocide - war crimes - crimea against humanity on the Palestinian people while you go about it .. slaughtering civilians like animals in extremist Zionist frenzy. Israel been called out for war crimes so many times over the decades .. an illegal occupier .. .oppressing the occupied.. systemic oppression .. Nazi style in some cases .. in blissful irony.

got the right idea on Syria - Afghanistan the hypocrisy and inequality of life -- one worth more than the next .. brown black and white.

Who cares about the Hamas Charter .. how about the UN Charter .. might we follow that ? The occupied have the right to self defense against the external occupier .. just like our latest JV-Team in Ukraine .. should we not be helping the Palestinins similarly .. defend against a much larger and stronger aggressor.

Maybe we gonna see Turkey - Syria - Iran - Iraq - Saudi Arabia .. and apparently even the Houthi's want a piece and Lebanon- Hezbolla .. try to help the Palestinian people defend against the Occupier .. Then see how many Palestinian houses they be bulldozing the next year - like they been doing for decades ..

Unfortunately for Palestinians you reap what you sow and they sow the same year by year and the harvest is always the same.
 

Sargonski

Well-Known Member
Unfortunately for Palestinians you reap what you sow and they sow the same year by year and the harvest is always the same.

What is this blathering nonsense "reap what you sow" .. what is it that these Palestinian babies getting murdered have sown ? .. What did they do to the genocidal, war crime committing, crime against humanity commiting Occupiers ?

Do the Palestinians not have the right do defend themselves against the foreign Occupier ? .. one who commits regular war crimes and atrocity over multiple generations over 70 years. Does the world not have an obligation to have war crimes trials .. like those in Neuremburg ? .. or at least pin Bibi with the same label as Putin .. Bibi responsible for 100 x more crime than anything Putin did. Sanction the Israeli Oligarchs ..

Then we might see some resolution to the two state solution.

And for the reaping of what one sows. Yes .. when you treat people like animals - similar to how Nazi's caged the Jews - demonizing and dehumanizing them .. and that animal escapes cage .. not exactly a surprise the animal goes out and randomly bites someone.

And when you drop a 1000 lb bomb on a crowded apartment block .. leveling the building .. you are going to decapitate a few children .. a whole lot actually .. and when you drop a 1000lb fuel air bomb on a hospital ... you are going to kill and decapitate a even more children ..

Nothing like shooting meda at protests .. along with other random protesters .. one guy in a wheel chair. I liked the latest ploy of shooting at the ankles of Protesters .. Ohh ... and this one really good. The bomb some random house/building .. in crowded civilian area .. then, when the medics com .. they blow them up .. Ha ha ha .. big funny aye my Lionheart friend !!
 
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