What are the best arguments in favor of theism and against atheism?

[ChristineM]

Challenge accepted , ....for you obviously from the get go do not understand what you are talking about. And it is you who outs yourself as the one who fits the description of your own ignorant and rude comment. By their fruits ye shall know them...
"
What is the Universe Made Of?

Matter known as ordinary, which makes up everything we know, corresponds to only 5% of the Universe.

Approximately half of this percentage still eluded detection."

What is the Universe Made Of? - SpaceRef

Yes and where I'd the evidence to back your 2.5% claim in relation to our discussion of "the observable universe" (your wording)?

Or were you simply moving the goalposts in the typical losing fundy way?


And fyi, calculation shows that 96% of the mass of the universe is unaccounted for.
What's 96 Percent of the Universe Made Of? Astronomers Don't Know

 

[Ben Dhyan]

Yes and where I'd the evidence to back your 2.5% claim in relation to our discussion of "the observable universe" (your wording)?

Or were you simply moving the goalposts in the typical losing fundy way?


And fyi, calculation shows that 96% of the mass of the universe is unaccounted for.
What's 96 Percent of the Universe Made Of? Astronomers Don't Know

And of the 5% (4% in your linked article) of the mass accounted for and undetectable, wrt the article I posted, half of that still eluded detection...

 

[rusra02]

I find evidence all around me for a superhuman Designer of unfathomable knowledge and abilities. As more and more is discovered about life, the living cell, DNA, etc. the belief that these things occurred simply by natural forces becomes harder and harder to defend.
Molecular machines of incredible complexity are exquisitely designed and structured. The code of life in DNA is stored information; instructions for constructing a living creature or plant.
When has even simple information occurred by random, undirected events? Romans 1:19,20 reasons; "what may be known about God is clearly evident...for God made it clear...For his invisible qualities are clearly seen from the world’s creation onward, because they are perceived by the things made, even his eternal power and Godship." I believe our worship and praise belongs to "the One who made the heaven and the earth and the sea and the springs of water." (Revelation 14:6)

 

[ChristineM]

And of the 5% (4% in your linked article) of the mass accounted for and undetectable, wrt the article I posted, half of that still eluded detection...

And what has that to do with our discussion of the big bang/inflation?

 

[Ben Avraham]

What are the Best Arguments In Favor of Theism and Against Atheism?

It is the proof that the Primal Cause caused the Universe to exist and Generic Causality.

 

[ChristineM]

It is the proof that the Primal Cause caused the Universe to exist and Generic Causality.

Please provide evidence of this proof or stop perjuring yourself and your faith

 

[Ben Avraham]

Please provide evidence of this proof or stop perjuring yourself and your faith

The evidence is according to Logic. The Universe is claimed by all scientists to have an age. If something has an age, it had a beginning. Since it could not have caused itself to exist, it is only obvious that something or someone that preceded it caused the Universe to begin. What in this Logic prevents you from denying the existence of the Primal Cause? If you can prove your denial of my assertion, I am ready to change my views.

Now, about Generic Causality, your parents caused you to exist and they by their parents all the way back till the first couple of parents. What or who caused them to exist if not the Primal Cause?

 

[Ben Dhyan]

And what has that to do with our discussion of the big bang/inflation?

Christine, you do not fool anyone with your attempts to misdirect, my response was in response to your post #224 .

 

[ChristineM]

The evidence is according to Logic. The Universe is claimed by all scientists to have an age. If something has an age, it had a beginning. Since it could not have caused itself to exist, it is only obvious that something or someone that preceded it caused the Universe to begin. What in this Logic prevents you from denying the existence of the Primal Cause? If you can prove your denial of my assertion, I am ready to change my views.

Now, about Generic Causality, your parents caused you to exist and they by their parents all the way back till the first couple of parents. What or who caused them to exist if not the Primal Cause?

And your evidence that the universe could not haver caused itself is where? As we have discussed before you are using the laws of thermodynamics to back up your claim, unfortunately those laws did not exist at that time.

Also you should note that there is nothing in science or logic to say the universe did not arise from nothing.

 

[ChristineM]

Christine, you do not fool anyone with your attempts to misdirect, my response was in response to your post #224 .

You responses is irrelevant and shows a dismal or deliberate misunderstanding of cosmology and quantum physics.

Actually it's you who has been doing the misdirection and moving goalposts, my stance has remained firm. It is based on scientific understanding, mathematical calculations and physical observations and measurements. There is no guesswork or faith involved, just hard facts.

 

[Ben Avraham]

If I may, @Lorgar-Aurelian , how important is the matter of belief to you? Is there any chance that I might convince you of the merits of apatheism and/or ignosticism?

To me, the matter of belief is irrelevant. One does not need to believe when he knows. I know with the understanding of Logic that HaShem exists. Hence, to believe is irrelevant.

 

[Ben Avraham]

And your evidence that the universe could not haver caused itself is where? As we have discussed before you are using the laws of thermodynamics to back up your claim, unfortunately those laws did not exist at that time. Also you should note that there is nothing in science or logic to say the universe did not arise from nothing.

That evidence is in Logic. For the Universe to have caused itself to exist, it had to exist to do so. Now, if it existed, it had no need to further cause itself to exist as it already existed. The ball is in your court to deny what I am talking about. Now, be honest because, honesty is obviously required of all posters, theists or atheists.

 

[ChristineM]

To me, the matter of belief is irrelevant. One does not need to believe when he knows. I know with the understanding of Logic that HaShem exists. Hence, to believe is irrelevant.

What? Contradictory to the point on delusion. But hey, ho, you are entitled to believe in whatever makes you happy.

 

[ChristineM]

That evidence is in Logic. For the Universe to have caused itself to exist, it had to exist to do so. Now, if it existed, it had no need to further cause itself to exist as it already existed. The ball is in your court to deny what I am talking about. Be honest because, honesty is obviously required of all posters, theist or atheist.

That is nonsense, there is no logic in guesswork. It is semply guesswork.

Once again you are relying on (at the time) the none existent, a point that you seem incapable of comprehending.

If you continue to ignore facts in order to justify your delusion then there is no point in continuing, i am averse to banging my head on a wall.

 

[Ben Avraham]

That is nonsense, there is no logic in guesswork. It is semply guesswork. Once again you are relying on (at the time) the none existent, a point that you seem incapable of comprehending. If you continue to ignore facts in order to justify your delusion then there is no point in continuing, i am averse to banging my head on a wall.

I see, you prefer to deny what I said. Simply words of accusation are balderdash to me. If you find hard to believe what I am saying, prove to me what or who caused the Universe to exist. If you don't know, just confess you don't. Your denial of what I have said is proof of nothing. You are not the first atheist to apply words of subterfuge.

 

[Ben Avraham]

What? Contradictory to the point on delusion. But hey, ho, you are entitled to believe in whatever makes you happy.

You have given enough evidences that you do not even understand what you are talking about.

 

[Ben Avraham]

Please provide evidence of this proof or stop perjuring yourself and your faith

And you ought to give up living under the delusion of your atheistic preconceived notions.

 

[ChristineM]

I see, you prefer to deny what I said. Simply words of accusation are balderdash to me. If you find hard to believe what I am saying, prove to me what or who caused the Universe to exist. If you don't know, just confess you don't. Your denial of what I have said is proof of nothing. You are not the first atheist to apply words of subterfuge.

I do not deny what you said, i deny that what you said is sane.

Honey you are making this claim contrary to present knowledge and understanding, i have provided enough of that knowledge to show you are talking nonsense about a subject you know nothing about.

There is no subterfuge in my posts, just honesty and facts, just because that is destroys your god magic simply highlights your ignorance.

 

[ChristineM]

You have given enough evidences that you do not even understand what you are talking about.

Why must you lie to justify your delusion?

 

[ChristineM]

And you ought to give up living under the delusion of your atheistic preconceived notions.

Proof of your claim that cosmology, measurement, observation, and knowledge are atheistic preconceived notions please