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What are the differences between God and Jesus Christ?

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
The title 'Christ' when not attached to a name must refer to the Spirit of God..

What???

The concept of the Christ in Christianity originated from the concept of the messiah in Judaism. Christians believe that Jesus is the messiah foretold in the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament.
...
Although the original followers of Jesus believed Jesus to be the Jewish messiah, e.g. in the Confession of Peter, Jesus was usually referred to as "Jesus of Nazareth" or "Jesus, son of Joseph". Jesus came to be called "Jesus Christ" (meaning "Jesus the Khristós", i.e. "Jesus the Messiah" or "Jesus the Anointed") by Christians, who believe that his crucifixion and resurrection fulfill the messianic prophecies of the Old Testament.

-wiki Christ-

..so Christ means Messiah [ or Saviour ]
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Tell me, what is the Hebrew word used for ‘Soul’.

Is it not, ‘Nepesh’?

And what is the meaning of ‘Nepesh’?

Is it not (by String’s Concordance - 5315):
  • Nepesh: a soul, living being, life, self, person, desire, passion, appetite, emotion
And the Greek, ‘Psuché’ (Strong’s Concordance - 5590):
  • Psuché: The vital breath, breath of life, (b) the human soul, (c) the soul as the seat of affections and will, (d) the self, (e) a human person, an individual.
Please justify your claim - as I have justified mine.

Understanding that the spirit and soul are completely one yet different - they even use different words:

Hebrew

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Breath of life - N@shamah

Definition
  1. breath, spirit
    1. breath (of God)
    2. breath (of man)
    3. every breathing thing
    4. spirit (of man)
Soul - Nephesh

Definition
  1. soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
    1. that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
    2. living being
    3. living being (with life in the blood)
    4. the man himself, self, person or individual
    5. seat of the appetites
    6. seat of emotions and passions
    7. activity of mind
      1. dubious
    8. activity of the will
      1. dubious
    9. activity of the character
      1. dubious
Greek:

1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

spirit: - Pneuma:

Definition
  1. a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
    1. a life giving spirit

    and yet it is completely one with the soul - much like The Word and The Father
Soul - Psuche

  1. the soul
    1. the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
    2. the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
    3. the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
What???

The concept of the Christ in Christianity originated from the concept of the messiah in Judaism. Christians believe that Jesus is the messiah foretold in the Hebrew Bible and the Christian Old Testament.
...
Although the original followers of Jesus believed Jesus to be the Jewish messiah, e.g. in the Confession of Peter, Jesus was usually referred to as "Jesus of Nazareth" or "Jesus, son of Joseph". Jesus came to be called "Jesus Christ" (meaning "Jesus the Khristós", i.e. "Jesus the Messiah" or "Jesus the Anointed") by Christians, who believe that his crucifixion and resurrection fulfill the messianic prophecies of the Old Testament.

-wiki Christ-

..so Christ means Messiah [ or Saviour ]
I don't have an issue with what you have written. Both 'Christ' and 'Messiah' mean 'anointed'.

I'm asking you to take it back a step. What is the 'anointing'? Is it not the Spirit of God 'resting upon' a man? So, what if there is no man to 'rest upon'? Does the 'anointing' not exist?
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
I don't have an issue with what you have written. Both 'Christ' and 'Messiah' mean 'anointed'.

I'm asking you to take it back a step. What is the 'anointing'? Is it not the Spirit of God 'resting upon' a man?

Yes. Almighty God caused virgin Mary to have a fatherless son.
Jesus didn't become the Christ through a ritual, I would agree.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
The title 'Christ' when not attached to a name must refer to the Spirit of God. Jesus was anointed by the Spirit of God and became 'the anointed one', the Christ. Jesus was not 'Christ' before his anointing.

If, as 1 Corinthians 10:4 tells us, Christ existed before Jesus was born, then one is led to the conclusion that Christ must be the Spirit of God, the 'Rock'.

What other options are there?
What options? The truth!
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Because the sole pont was, at the time, that there is an intrinsic hierarchy within a father & son relationship. The answer is an unequivocal yes. If you think that the Prologue to John, or any other Biblical text defies this intrinsic principle, you are mistaken and have misunderstood the verses.
Uh huh. The term was “precede,” meaning “come before.” John makes clear: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…”. One did not “precede” the other. Has nothing to do with “hierarchy.” You’re confused. I suspect about many things concerning what the Bible says.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
3 equal persons in one essence..
3 persons in One Lord..

I think you are splitting hairs.
If the doctrine of the trinity is so important, then we would
surely have found it in the ten commandments.

Nay, it is but an invention of men.
1) Nothing mentioned about “parts” here. “Parts” imply that without all of them, the thing comprised of them is incomplete. That’s patently not what the doctrine says. “Persons” =/= “Parts.” Each Person is wholly God, according to the Doctrine. You’re misrepresenting what the Doctrine says and creating a straw man.
2) Why would the Doctrine need to appear in the Decalogue in order to be theologically valid? The Decalogue states, “…the Lord our God is One.” The Doctrine of the Trinity makes the same claim. They are in agreement. I think it’s you who are splitting hairs with regard to how the Persons of the Trinity operate in being fully God.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Understanding that the spirit and soul are completely one yet different - they even use different words:

Hebrew

7 And the LORD God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

Breath of life - N@shamah

Definition
  1. breath, spirit
    1. breath (of God)
    2. breath (of man)
    3. every breathing thing
    4. spirit (of man)
Soul - Nephesh

Definition
  1. soul, self, life, creature, person, appetite, mind, living being, desire, emotion, passion
    1. that which breathes, the breathing substance or being, soul, the inner being of man
    2. living being
    3. living being (with life in the blood)
    4. the man himself, self, person or individual
    5. seat of the appetites
    6. seat of emotions and passions
    7. activity of mind
      1. dubious
    8. activity of the will
      1. dubious
    9. activity of the character
      1. dubious
Greek:

1 Thes 5:23 And the very God of peace sanctify you wholly; and I pray God your whole spirit and soul and body be preserved blameless unto the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

spirit: - Pneuma:

Definition
  1. a spirit, i.e. a simple essence, devoid of all or at least all grosser matter, and possessed of the power of knowing, desiring, deciding, and acting
    1. a life giving spirit

    and yet it is completely one with the soul - much like The Word and The Father
Soul - Psuche

  1. the soul
    1. the seat of the feelings, desires, affections, aversions (our heart, soul etc.)
    2. the (human) soul in so far as it is constituted that by the right use of the aids offered it by God it can attain its highest end and secure eternal blessedness, the soul regarded as a moral being designed for everlasting life
    3. the soul as an essence which differs from the body and is not dissolved by death (distinguished from other parts of the body)
Err… what exactly are you saying?

A soul is the spirit and the body (of an entity).

It us like saying that a computer hardware (body) and the software (program) make a computer SYSTEM (Soul).

The ‘System’ is not ANOTHER (third) part of a computer (system!) -just as a Soul is not another (third) part of a person.

Why are you saying crazy things that make no sense just because you are trying to prove a baseless trinity?

I suppose next you are going to define Jesus as some part of the body, God, as another part, and the holy Spirit (OF GOD) as ANOTHER (three parts) PART OF GOD!!!

What is it? Fear at realising that teaming is false … or hardcore ignorance?
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Do you not accept the scriptures as the truth?

My original post contained only passages from scripture.
Contained passages taken out of context…!!

Some Trinitarians say that Jesus is God because he walked on water….

What do they say when it’s pointed out to them that Peter also walked on water??? Isn’t peter therefore, God, also!!

Some Trinitarians say Jesus is God because he forgave sins….

What do they say when it’s pointed out that Man can forgive sins also…?

Some Trinitarians say that Jesus is God because he raised the dead…!

What do they say when it’s pointed out that Elisha and Elijah both raised the dead centuries before Jesus was born..,, But do they say Elisha and Elijah are both God, too?

Some Trinitarians sag Jesus is God because he had the power of God…!

What do they say when it is pointed out to them that it was because GOD GRANTED HIM THOSE POWERS! And what do they say when I ask:
  • “If Jesus is God because God granted him those powers, WHAT WAS JESUS BEFORE GOD GRANTED HIM THOSE POWERS?”
Some Trinitarians say Jesus is God because God raised him from the dead and raised him up to Heaven to sit at GOD’s right hand… that is to say that Jesus is God because he sat next to God…trinity says!!

What do they say when it is pointed out that God said:
  • ‘Beside(s) me there is no (other) God’!
Hmmm…. Usually NO ANSWER or NONSENSE!!
 

Redemptionsong

Well-Known Member
Contained passages taken out of context…!!

Some Trinitarians say that Jesus is God because he walked on water….

What do they say when it’s pointed out to them that Peter also walked on water??? Isn’t peter therefore, God, also!!

Some Trinitarians say Jesus is God because he forgave sins….

What do they say when it’s pointed out that Man can forgive sins also…?

Some Trinitarians say that Jesus is God because he raised the dead…!

What do they say when it’s pointed out that Elisha and Elijah both raised the dead centuries before Jesus was born..,, But do they say Elisha and Elijah are both God, too?

Some Trinitarians sag Jesus is God because he had the power of God…!

What do they say when it is pointed out to them that it was because GOD GRANTED HIM THOSE POWERS! And what do they say when I ask:
  • “If Jesus is God because God granted him those powers, WHAT WAS JESUS BEFORE GOD GRANTED HIM THOSE POWERS?”
Some Trinitarians say Jesus is God because God raised him from the dead and raised him up to Heaven to sit at GOD’s right hand… that is to say that Jesus is God because he sat next to God…trinity says!!

What do they say when it is pointed out that God said:
  • ‘Beside(s) me there is no (other) God’!
Hmmm…. Usually NO ANSWER or NONSENSE!!
Let's stick to the words of my post, and the scriptures l quoted.

Which bits do you think are 'taken out of context'?

In fact, l don't think it would make any difference if they were read in isolation from the wider context, because it would not change the meaning.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
John makes clear: “In the beginning was the Word, and the Word was with God, and the Word was God…”

Who's John?
..and why was his Gospel chosen to be in the canon, instead of
say the Gospel of Thomas?

It is not like the other 3 Gospels. The author makes many claims
that are unreliable, and mystical / gnostic.

..John says, [ whoever he is] :-

35 The one who saw it has testified to this, and his testimony is true. He knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe
-John 9-

Well I don't [ believe it ] :D
I don't like "bullying"

The Nicene emperors certainly did. They persecuted people and destroyed their texts.
 

Soapy

Son of his Father: The Heir and Prince
Let's stick to the words of my post, and the scriptures l quoted.

Which bits do you think are 'taken out of context'?

In fact, l don't think it would make any difference if they were read in isolation from the wider context, because it would not change the meaning.
You may have read the word, ‘Christ’, in 1 Corinthians. But ‘Christ’ is a TITLE… A title can be attained by many things.

And even you admit that Jesus BECAME ‘Christ’ at his anointing….

Yet you then claim that CHRIST already existed before he was made CHRIST!!

And, in any case, the TRANSLATION is purely TRINITARIAN… I would completely claim that the writer of the verse did not in any way try to claim that JESUS was a ROCK!!

In fact, isn’t Peter, ‘ROCK’… so you would have to read the verse and say that:
  • PETER(1) WAS CHRIST(2)
  • THE ROCK(1) WAS CHRIST(2)
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
Why would the Doctrine need to appear in the Decalogue in order to be theologically valid? The Decalogue states, “…the Lord our God is One.” The Doctrine of the Trinity makes the same claim.

I would agree that it doesn't have to be in the ten commandments if it is not important..
..but for Orthodox Christians it is very important.

If you examine the creeds, they mention "the only son of God" .. and:

And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal.
...
...

-wiki Athanasian Creed -

It seems that the above is the most important tenets of "the faith".
The trinity should have been the 2nd. commandment, in that case.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Who's John?
..and why was his Gospel chosen to be in the canon, instead of
say the Gospel of Thomas?

It is not like the other 3 Gospels. The author makes many claims
that are unreliable, and mystical / gnostic.

..John says, [ whoever he is] :-

35 The one who saw it has testified to this, and his testimony is true. He knows that he is telling the truth, so that you also may believe
-John 9-

Well I don't [ believe it ] :D
I don't like "bullying"

The Nicene emperors certainly did. They persecuted people and destroyed their texts.
John is in the canon while Thomas is not for the reason that Thomas was lost during the time the canon was established.

You’re presenting a “no true Scotsman” fallacy. John is in the canon and established as a scriptural authority. It matters not whether you accept it. It’s there, it says what it says. You’re not a Christian; you don’t get to decide what’s valid for us or not. It’s our sacred text, our faith, our theology, our church.
 

sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
I would agree that it doesn't have to be in the ten commandments if it is not important..
..but for Orthodox Christians it is very important.

If you examine the creeds, they mention "the only son of God" .. and:

And the catholic faith is this: that we worship one God in Trinity, and Trinity in Unity; neither confounding the Persons, nor dividing the Essence. For there is one Person of the Father; another of the Son; and another of the Holy Ghost. But the Godhead of the Father, of the Son, and of the Holy Ghost, is all one; the Glory equal, the Majesty coeternal. Such as the Father is; such is the Son; and such is the Holy Ghost. The Father uncreated; the Son uncreated; and the Holy Ghost uncreated. The Father unlimited; the Son unlimited; and the Holy Ghost unlimited. The Father eternal; the Son eternal; and the Holy Ghost eternal. And yet they are not three eternals; but one eternal.
...
...

-wiki Athanasian Creed -

It seems that the above is the most important tenets of "the faith".
The trinity should have been the 2nd. commandment, in that case.
Why? The Trinity is a Christian — not Hebraic doctrine.

You misquoted me. I said that the doctrine need not appear in the Decalogue in order to be valid. The Decalogue is not the litmus test for what’s valid.
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
No. It wasn’t recovered until the 20th century. It is, in fact, revered by scholars as an important and authentic document.

It was indeed discovered in Egypt in the Nag Hammadi library
It was hidden due to the persecution of so-called heretics.

The Gospel of Thomas is held by most to be the earliest of the "gnostic" gospels composed. Scholars generally date the text to the early-mid 2nd century.
-wiki-

303–312 Diocletian's Massacre of Christians, includes burning of scriptures
325 The Nicene creed is named after the city of Nicaea (present day İznik, Turkey) where it was originally adopted by the First Ecumenical Council.
 
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sojourner

Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
It was indeed discovered in Egypt in the Nag Hammadi library
It was hidden due to the persecution of so-called heretics.

The Gospel of Thomas is held by most to be the earliest of the "gnostic" gospels composed. Scholars generally date the text to the early-mid 2nd century.
-wiki-

303–312 Diocletian's Massacre of Christians, includes burning of scriptures
325 The Nicene creed is named after the city of Nicaea (present day İznik, Turkey) where it was originally adopted by the First Ecumenical Council.
Many date it older than that.

Why are you gaslighting when you know it was lost?
We’re done, since you can’t seem to be aboveboard in your postings.
 
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