What are you trying to do when you denounce some beliefs?

[Jim]

(edited)
NOTE
My question here is not about other people denouncing your beliefs. That”s in a different thread: What are you trying to do when you debate against people denouncing your beliefs? This thread is about you denouncing other people’s beliefs.

NOTE: In this thread I’m not asking why you object to some beliefs, or what you do about it. I’m asking if you have some aim or purpose in mind, something you hope to accomplish, some good that you think it might do, to denounce those beliefs in Internet discussions.
(end edit)

If you often denounce some beliefs in Internet discussions, do you have any aim or purpose in mind? Is there some good that you think it might do for you or for other people?

For example sometimes people might think that some beliefs are harmful or dangerous, and they want to help stop them from spreading. Sometimes when I do it, I’m hoping to help reduce the popularity of some beliefs that I think are harmful and dangerous.

 

[Twilight Hue]

If fully proved harmful or dangerous, I wouldn't denounce it, I would absolutely condemn it.

 

[Mock Turtle]

One merely has to ask - does this belief harm others - and all too often they do. We know they do and hardly need to keep reminding people - attitudes to sexuality and gender, attitudes to equality, attitudes to children (as being their property), attitudes to others not having the same religious belief, etc. Why wouldn't we want to put our views across if we felt by doing so we might effect change for the better?

 

[Nimos]

If you often denounce some beliefs in Internet discussions, do you have any aim or purpose in mind? Is there some good that you think it might do for you or for other people?

For example sometimes people might think that some beliefs are harmful or dangerous, and they want to help stop them from spreading. Sometimes when I do it, I’m hoping to help reduce the popularity of some beliefs that I think are harmful and dangerous.

I think that is a decent goal.

To me I would think there are several reasons for denouncing beliefs.

1. One is what you have already mentioned.
2. To strengthen ones own beliefs.
3. Trying to test the validity of a belief.

For instance the other day I saw a video with a Pastor talking about the temptation of Jesus in the bible, as I have a chat going about that in another thread. So was interested in hearing his view on it. Anyway, during this lecture or what to call it, he told a story of another pastor which son had diabetes, so he was taking insulin. Now an evangelist (I think it was) came to his town and was preaching about how he could cure people through prayers and the power of Jesus. Which this pastor due to his own belief, bought into and went to see him with his son and all the magic happened. So the next day as his son were about to take his insulin, his father, convince that, if the son just put his trust into Jesus and God, he could get rid of Satan, which apparently were the reason for his condition and that this could solve the issue. As time went on the boy got worse and worse and eventually died, due to lack of medication. However his father were so convince that this were all part of the plan, that he was praying and praying that Jesus or God would raise his son from the dead, even at his funeral. Because he obvious were so convinced about his belief, that it costed the life of his son.

Now I have no clue whether the story is true or not. But see no reason, why the guy would tell such story if it weren't. And also because, its not really all that unique, have heard similar stories like this before. So to me personally I find that, well first of all, sad for the pastor and his family, having put so much faith into this and loosing so much. For no reason at all, when we have a solution to the issue, that at least seem more reliable that prayers. But also, I find it harmful, if beliefs can cause people to think so irrational as this person did.

So I would definitely agree, that any beliefs that are harmful, doesn't have to be religious, ought to be fought and questioned, if they cause harm.

 

[oldbadger]

I can acknowledge many beliefs.
But when they interfere with other folks or freedom, or cause oppression, then I'll do more than denounce them. I'll do my best to trash 'em.

 

[SalixIncendium]

If you often denounce some beliefs in Internet discussions, do you have any aim or purpose in mind? Is there some good that you think it might do for you or for other people?

For example sometimes people might think that some beliefs are harmful or dangerous, and they want to help stop them from spreading. Sometimes when I do it, I’m hoping to help reduce the popularity of some beliefs that I think are harmful and dangerous.

I don't denounce another's beliefs in general, so long as their beliefs don't have an adverse impact on another.

But I will ask questions designed to make one question why they believe as they do. I think questioning one's own beliefs is a healthy exercise. It was for me.

 

[PureX]

I can't denounce a belief. I can only reject a proposal. And if I do, I pretty much always explain why, because I'm here to share my reasoning with others, and to learn of theirs. I am not here to approve or condemn anyone else's beliefs. I'm only here to discuss/debate what people's various 'beliefs' appear to be proposing, in terms of truthfulness and practical effect, to me.

 

[dianaiad]

Any belief which does not harm another....and by 'harm' I mean physical harm to someone who doesn't knowingly volunteer for it, needs relegating/denouncing.

So....the guy whose beliefs cause him to physically block access to the events of another, such as intentionally playing loud music for the purpose of drowning out the event, or blocking the entrance of churches/temples/venues to force people to accept pamphlets or listen to rants about how horrible the people inside are, or who pass laws aimed specifically at the beliefs of whatever group is targeted (like, oh, polygamy or marriage ceremonies that don't involve the state?) ...these objections and actions should be stopped. The speakers moved to somewhere that doesn't mess with the enjoyment of said religion/group.

When the group does something to people who do NOT volunteer, such as children, that WILL cost them their lives, denouncing that belief isn't enough. the (possible) apocryphal story of the pastor who let his son die of diabetes because a faith healer told him to withhold insulin? That sort of thing is already covered in the law. It's called child abuse and said pastor would have been jailed. At 18 the kid can decide for himself whether he wants to continue insulin..

But do you know how rare that is?


I have seen beliefs DENOUNCED in here simply because a parent teaches his children that there is a God and He wants them to behave. Such teaching is denounced in the sort of language that the law would use against this pastor who killed his kid.

Do any of you know the DIFFERENCE between these things? Does it occur to you that the harm done by the denouncers is far nastier than the harm done by the folks they are denouncing?

Sure, we don't agree with one another religiously. That's world wide. But here's the thing. NOBODY changed his religion because his own was sufficiently insulted. Nothing cements an opinion quite as well as opposition to it.

If you want to change minds, consider the difference between candle and the morning sun. You can spend the night lighting candles to chase away the darkness, and put fires in the fire place, and claim that each separate light is the 'One, true light".

But then morning comes and you open the window, and all the lights inside become nothing against the one, bright, lights everything up, sun. You don't have to put out all the candles in order to realize which light is the brightest, do you? You just....look up.

 

[icehorse]

First off, I enter into these debates or discussions in good faith. When I'm a critic, I try to make that clear up front. I also try to act as though the folks I'm debating are also coming to the debate in good faith. If we assume good faith, then what we see a LOT are (unintentional?), fallacy arguments. If a belief can be defended only by using fallacy arguments, then it's hard for me to imagine that it's a healthy belief.

 

[Katzpur]

Some people have to denounce other people's beliefs in order to feel better about their own. It's pathetic, but it says more about them than it says about the religion they're bad-mouthing.

 

[Jainarayan]

As I said in another post, it’s about mutual respect. I won’t throw the first punch. But believe me when I say that when my beliefs or life, or someone else’s, is denounced, condemned, criticized, prohibited, railed against, by another’s religion, I will come out swinging as hard as I can. My purpose is to try to put the person in their place.

 

[Katzpur]

As I said in another post, it’s about mutual respect. I won’t throw the first punch. But believe me when I say that when my beliefs or life, or someone else’s, is denounced, condemned, criticized, prohibited, railed against, by another’s religion, I will come out swinging as hard as I can. My purpose is to try to put the person in their place.

That sounds a lot like me. I definitely never throw the first punch, and I really do try not to overreact. My first response when someone criticizes my beliefs is to try to figure out whether the remarks were made out of meanness or just plain ignorance. Most of the time, I'll correct the misinformation and try to keep things from escalating. When it just keeps up, though, I'm not just going to ignore it. My avatar may look sweet and harmless, but believe me... this cat has claws.

 

[Katzpur]

NOBODY changed his religion because his own was sufficiently insulted. Nothing cements an opinion quite as well as opposition to it.

Truer words were never spoken!

If you want to change minds, consider the difference between candle and the morning sun. You can spend the night lighting candles to chase away the darkness, and put fires in the fire place, and claim that each separate light is the 'One, true light".

But then morning comes and you open the window, and all the lights inside become nothing against the one, bright, lights everything up, sun. You don't have to put out all the candles in order to realize which light is the brightest, do you? You just....look up.

I love that! That's beautiful!

 

[firedragon]

(edited) There might be some misunderstanding about what I’m asking here. I’m not asking why you object to some beliefs, or what you do about it. I’m asking if you have some aim or purpose in mind, something you hope to accomplish, some good that you think it might do, to denounce those beliefs in Internet discussions. (end edit)

If you often denounce some beliefs in Internet discussions, do you have any aim or purpose in mind? Is there some good that you think it might do for you or for other people?

For example sometimes people might think that some beliefs are harmful or dangerous, and they want to help stop them from spreading. Sometimes when I do it, I’m hoping to help reduce the popularity of some beliefs that I think are harmful and dangerous.

It could be that you may think a theology is dangerous or harmful, but your thought may encourage debate that shows you a different angle altogether.

 

[Aupmanyav]

I am strong atheist, skeptic and a 'truth' guy. When I confront falsehood, I react. If it persists, then even more strongly.

 

[Katzpur]

...I will ask questions designed to make one question why they believe as they do. I think questioning one's own beliefs is a healthy exercise. It was for me.

I think it is, too. I also think it's a healthy exercise to get other people to question theirs without insulting them in the process. Starting out a conversation by asking someone how they could possibly believe the "nonsense" they do is only going to backfire.

What I hate most of all is when people try to tell me what my religion teaches, as if they know and I don't. There is nothing that irritates me quite like the statement: "Well, Mormons believe [such and such]" when 90% of the time, the "such and such" turns out to be a grossly embellished version of what we actually believe, and is more of a caricature than an reality.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

(edited) There might be some misunderstanding about what I’m asking here. I’m not asking why you object to some beliefs, or what you do about it. I’m asking if you have some aim or purpose in mind, something you hope to accomplish, some good that you think it might do, to denounce those beliefs in Internet discussions. (end edit)

If you often denounce some beliefs in Internet discussions, do you have any aim or purpose in mind? Is there some good that you think it might do for you or for other people?

For example sometimes people might think that some beliefs are harmful or dangerous, and they want to help stop them from spreading. Sometimes when I do it, I’m hoping to help reduce the popularity of some beliefs that I think are harmful and dangerous.

It's a bit frustrating knowing believers follow beliefs that harm others. It's assuming that because the believer himself doesn't harm, then it's not "that person's" problem. If we are interconnected, everyone is affected.

If I had the patience, time, and interest, that would be a good reason to denounce people's beliefs insofar that they are open to understand the harm their perspective is doing regardless if 10% of the people they talk to smile while the rest of the 90% is harmed because of it. Understanding and advocating is a huge plus but I can't save the world.

Outside of that, I really don't have interests in abrahamic religions. Eastern religions, yes; but, it will take me extra effort look for a personal means to connect with these faiths. Unless I close my eyes and tap my red heels, gurus just don't knock on your door if you "wait for them to find you."

But, that's the only reason I'd denounce it is because of the effect I see it on others. Even people here on RF are very hardcore in their beliefs. It's interesting that they say they have god's love but then on the other hand say people who disobey god deserve to die eternally.

So, it could be a forgone conclusion. Who knows.

 

[Skwim]

I can acknowledge many beliefs.
But when they interfere with other folks or freedom, or cause oppression, then I'll do more than denounce them. I'll do my best to trash 'em.

If that we could here on RF.

What I sometimes find disturbing is how a believer will laud their religion while ignoring its faults, even running from them.



.

 

[Terry Sampson]

I can't denounce a belief.

If you're physically or mentally unable to, I'll pray for your healing.
If you can't because you just don't know how to, give RFers a shout-out for help; there's plenty of folks here that would be glad to teach you how to.

 

[PureX]

If you're physically or mentally unable to, I'll pray for your healing.
If you can't because you just don't know how to, give RFers a shout-out for help; there's plenty of folks here that would be glad to teach you how to.

I don't see it as a logical course of action.