Maybe he is just a really bad Christian? Can you say with certainty that he is not?
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What are your thoughts on Christianity?
- Thread starter MatthewA
- Start date
You can go to jail for having illegitimate children where you live? How do you know they are illegitimate?
I didn't see the other link, but I read the one that you posted above. I understand the doctrinal basis of your views. I may not share them completely or only in part, but I understand. It is the claims that arise from the adherence to these doctrines that are made publicly that I and others are at liberty to question and challenge. There is no particle basis of sin known in the genome. It seems like another attempt to twist scientific fact with religious doctrine on order to give it greater credibility. In this particular case, it does not hold up. That sin exists, I do not challenge. That the story of Adam and Even represent a way for it to have entered mankind I do not challenge even if the story is only an allegory. What I can and have successfully challenged is the claim that it is 100% genetic.
That you believe the way you do is fine by me. In fact, my feelings on it have no bearing on your choice of worship.
I have no idea what you are asking here or how it relates to the theory of evolution, Biblical teaching or philosophy in general.
I suppose God would have given him another woman that was less prone to listen to snakes. Who knows?
I almost rated this ‘funny’, it is. But I thought ‘useful’ would be better. Because Jehovah could have done that very thing, if Adam hadn’t listened to his wife & stayed obedient. Or, even excuse Eve’s action... if Adam had stayed obedient. (I mean, Eve was deceived. Adam, though, wasn’t ...so his disobedience was willful.)
The reason I say that Jehovah could’ve overlooked her decision, is because of what’s stated in the Mosaic Law: an Israelite husband, as head of his wife, could nullify any vow / decision his wife made, if he wasn’t in agreement with it. (Numbers 30:10-13)
But Adam didn’t. Instead he followed her. Willfully.
And that made all the difference!
it was shrewd of Satan to first speak to the woman that way: who better to influence the man, right? I’ve often heard it said, “the man may be the head of his wife, but she is the neck”, lol!
No doubt that Adam loved Eve, apparently more than he loved the One who gave her to him.
But just like you said, it could’ve been just that simple.
Did you ever wonder why Eve felt so comfortable approaching that snake? (That would rarely happen today! Especially, hearing one talk! I know I’d get away from it!)
The simple answer is, because there was nothing in the Garden they had to fear! Everything was “very good” (Genesis 1:31), nothing harmful to man, the divinely-appointed caretaker for the Earth.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
I had some pretty bad church experiences. When I was pretty young, during a vacation Bible school, we were told to raise our hands if we had sinned, and if we didn't, that would put us on the path to Hell. I raised my hand along with a handful of others, and we were kept after to pray while the others went off for ice cream.
The most recent was back in my college days, and it was the last time I visited my family's church. I overheard one of the Church leaders discussing why they would never watch Hancock because he didn't believe black people should be superheroes.
I still enjoy Christian mythology from a mystical and symbolic aspect. Looking outside the Bible and mainstream Christian thinking shows a depth that I really enjoy, and I add some of that into my pagan rituals. ;-)
That is so sad. That is a terribly sad story. Good thing God doesn't get embarrassed, because wow. I want to crawl into a tiny hole and shrink to a microdot, so nobody can see me. Then I want to set the dot on fire like a little dab of gunpowder.
MatthewA
Active Member
Okay, thank you for sharing.
Guitar's Cry
Disciple of Pan
It would not have been inappropriate or unwelcome for you to have rated it funny. It was a little tongue in cheek. Though, I was also serious about it too.
Generally, I agree with you on your assessment.
There are many people from different backgrounds from around the world. Let me welcome you by thanking you for stopping by. Considering the historical backgrounds of human beings ~ Along with their culture, their surroundings they grew up in, the people they knew in and through their childhood, unto adulthood, and understanding the person and the very own individually unique experience of life by and through each and every choice that is made by us as human beings. Who are living souls in human bodies ~ Unless you believe that we are something else of course.
Was not sure where to really put this because just curious about other people from other religions and their thoughts about Christianity, their thoughts about the Christian God, and the Lord Jesus Christ who was the Son of God, who died and paid for the entirety of the human race the price of sin by death on the cross as an innocent man (who loved ~ the entirety of the human race) ~ Was buried and was risen again by God - the Father, and that if anyone believes they may inherit the ability to become children of God (John 1:12).
(This just biblical fact when it comes down to reading the Gospels of Christ in the bible which talks about Jesus Christ ~ His life, death, burial and resurrection)
If you do not believe or understand that it is okay, that is my only presentation of my only understanding of the Gospel of Christ - in the general sense of why Jesus Christ had come ~ Which was also to fulfill the old testament prophecies, and to defeat Satan overcome - death, sin, satan, grave, hell/she'ol and all of these things, which are talked about in the Revelation as well.
(My view may be wrong ~ am expressing my view of what scripture does say ~ in above text ~)
If you do not believe or understand this either that is okay.
My only questions simply with no judgement : What has your experiences been with other Christians, bad? Horrible experience at a church one time? Something you found in the bible you did not agree with, or do not understand? What are some of your thoughts on Christianity?
Hopefully anyone who reads all of this, you understand! Thank you for your time and God bless all of you here and your families - of course if you do not believe ~ Still may everything be okay with you at home, and your family, and your friends, take care!
As for me, uhhhh...as with @Rival, it’s a bit of a mixed feeling, but I feel mostly positive!
On the one hand, speaking historically, Christians in particular have quite a checkered background.
On the other hand – from a teachings perspective – I think Jesus of Nazareth was onto something concerning the simple worship of God through sincere devotion to His Will and righteous living. As a enthusiastic Stoic prokopton, I understand that the bolded portion here is what our teachers and the forerunners of our school were after, too, but not necessarily as communicated through divinely revealed commandments, but through the individual use of God-given Reason. Also, as a Pagan, examined from within the cultural medley that is Palestinian Judaism and the broader Greco-Roman religious sphere, the fundamentals of Christianity do make some sort of sense. I mean, a single, transcendent God was odd, yes. The focus on God having brought forth truth from only culture raised some eyebrows. Though, a miracle-working prophet believed to be the incarnation of a god through whom an individual could be granted immortality in Heaven (come on, this is part of Mystery Religion 101!) wouldn’t have been an issue as this was what some people were seeking after. On top of this, from early on, Christians have had the importance instilled in them of helping anyone in need. Huge plus!
In addition to the Stoic Literature I have bookmarked online via smartphone, I have a physical copy of The Bible that I carry with me. I very much delight in the stories of Moses and the Exodus, King David, his Psalms, the Proverbs of King Solomon, Ecclesiastes, Jonah, the Gospel stories, the adventures of the Apostles in Acts, and the book of Revelation.
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"Free will" explains nothing.
I really wish theists would put more thought into their responses to the problem of evil.
Is there free will in Heaven?
Do you think either of these outcomes describes reality?
Whichever God we consider, when I look around, I see most people not accepting that God at all. Do you see things differently?
MatthewA
Active Member
There is free will in heaven...
Satan decided to come down from heaven; and at first he was good; until he chose to be evil and deceive Eve.
Also if you go read the final chapter of Revelation : Unbelievers are apparently outside the Gates of the Heavenly Jerusalem - Indulging in their former past things they enjoyed to do. Though I do not know how all this works out it is interesting either way.
Way better than the man-made idea of people going into the fires of hell forever and forever... Thank God Jesus Christ over came Hell/She'ol. Hell is empty as far as I am concerned at this point in life, and believers and unbeliever go to be judged that the end of life; and you either are placed into the kingdom of God (Heavenly Jerusalem) or outside of it.
Satan decided to come down from heaven; and at first he was good; until he chose to be evil and deceive Eve.
Also if you go read the final chapter of Revelation : Unbelievers are apparently outside the Gates of the Heavenly Jerusalem - Indulging in their former past things they enjoyed to do. Though I do not know how all this works out it is interesting either way.
Way better than the man-made idea of people going into the fires of hell forever and forever... Thank God Jesus Christ over came Hell/She'ol. Hell is empty as far as I am concerned at this point in life, and believers and unbeliever go to be judged that the end of life; and you either are placed into the kingdom of God (Heavenly Jerusalem) or outside of it.
And (ever since the expulsion of Satan) is there sin in Heaven?
Yes, it answered his specific question as to how a perfect person could sin.
Free Will allows for us to make choices.
Of course! 2 Peter 2:4 mentions “...the angels that sinned...”.
Nope. I see it exactly the same way. People making (most) choices that displease Jehovah.
But I see a few that are trying make choices that please Jehovah, too. Not perfectly of course (myself included), but doing their best.
It does nothing of the sort.
Free will allows for us to act on our desires. It doesn't have any bearing on what those desires are.
If you let someone who has no inclination to, say, murder do whatever they want, you still won't get any murder.
People with freedom only do evil things if something innate in them or some external influence exerted upon them pushes them to do evil things.
I'm talking about now. Anyone who goes to Heaven or the JW equivalent - I have a vague memory of JWs using different terminology, but can't be bothered to look it up - what about them?
- Do they keep their free will when they're in Heaven?
- Do they continue to sin in Heaven?
So you agree that it's a bit of a misleading question, then.
Sirona
Hindu Wannabe
I was raised by atheist parents with the clear expectation to become an atheist. I had a Catholic grandmother who didn’t push me but who was happy when I read the Catholic books she gave me. That’s why I associate Christianity primarily with Catholicism, although I know there are many other denominations. I got formally baptized as a Catholic only as an adult, but I’d say I was a very devout kid, I prayed in the morning and in the evening, before and after meals and I said the rosary.
I had a troubled childhood, that’s why I struggle with the general idea of “God the Father” and “Mother Mary”and the feelings it evokes. I know this is not the fault of Christianity but a peculiarity of my biography, but nevertheless. Moreover, (Catholic) Christianity had a masochistic and depressing effect on me while I was already struggling with depression. So I don’t know whether my mood affected my perception of Christianity or the other way around, but every time I try to reapproach Christianity it gets me depressed. Christianity just doesn’t “work” for me.
Although Catholic, during my studies I attended a Lutheran church because I was a member of their “ecumenical” town gospel choir and because there were far more younger people attending than in Catholic church. I enjoyed being with them. Many were from the middle class or even better off. I liked their cohesiveness, motivation, and excellent social skills. The downside is that it is difficult for someone who was not born into their community to grow into it, even more so if you are rather reserved. This, too, is not the fault of Christianity, but can make it a lot harder to belong there.
The only horrible experience with a Christian community was with New Covenant Ministries International. They were like those evangelical (?) groups you see on TV, with cheesy pop songs instead of hymns and a very strict interpretation of the Bible. I only went there because I was really miserable at the time and a follower of this group, who was in my self-help group, was there massively promoting them. (This is not supposed to happen, but it did happen all the time, but out of politeness you don't say anything against it). The group must have been so out of line that even my doctor bothered to warn me about them. I thought they were weird, "programmed" and inauthentic, like bots or Stepford Wives. They forbade me to go to a harmless carnival on the occasion of Halloween, and it was rumored that they tried to collect information about you behind your back in order to serve you a version of Christianity tailor-made for your personal needs and aversions. I can't really "prove" that, of course. They only call themselves Jesus Center or Jesus Community, and “Jesus can’t be bad”. Additionally, this made it difficult to find critical information about them on the internet if you didn't know the exact name of the denomination, which I find deceptive.
I was born with a physical impairment. I had been subject to bleeding for a year like the woman in Mark 5, and God didn’t help me. So my main point of critic is the claim that “God has a plan for you” when sometimes you have to accept that you’re far below your potential and have to be content just getting by. I know some Christians use Satan as a lame excuse but I believe if God exists then he must have known that some people may have so many stumbling blocks in their life that they won’t be able to fulfill this plan. If you send people out to fulfill a plan you should give them what they need to fulfill that plan in the first place. That’s why I believe God either is impotent or there is no plan. I am aware that this all may sound like a big heap of self-pity but you asked why I don’t believe in Christianity or the Bible, and this is my answer.
MatthewA
Active Member
Hellos Sirona:
That sounds like you were under the pressures of a religious experience of having to do certain things to be part of the religion itself which seemed to be a huge boulder that you were carrying around with you. You are quite fond of your early childhood memories, it seems.
Sounds like you had fun for a little while being part of the community and interacting with others; but seemed that difficult times arose from all of these things, probably inwardly?
Yikes! From my understanding Jesus Christ is our mediator between Man and God so there is no middle (man) persay to get to God; except by and through Jesus Christ.
It is amazing what people will do; and how far they can take their beliefs while all predicating it all on the bible for justification for the things that they are doing that is totally backwards from Christianity; not only because of your experience, but also because of the consideration of cults that come up here in America, and most likely is present today in this time somewhere out there in this huge world.
When it comes to this; I am sorry. Reading about the Disciples and Jesus Christ and how they healed others, yet we ourselves are not healed is a really down play on the expectation of the person. You know I really do wish those healings were physical, now today because my leg would be cured and no longer breaking down. I believe those healings pictures and types of ; how we are all sick and need of healing; especially in the heart of our person. I believe that those disciples were equipped to the job they needed to and were living in a completely different time than we do not, but anyway if you do not believe in Christianity or the bible; that is fine thank you for sharing and taking your time to respond; Sirona.
PearlSeeker
Well-Known Member
Mostly good experiences with people.
I think the Bible is often taken too seriously and too literally.
Teachings. The primacy of love, charity, forgiveness, purity in heart, righteousness ... is the biggest plus for me.
In Catholic Christianity I like how you can connect in prayer to a community that transcends earthly communities - it includes saints and angels. I like prayer in general...
Christian rituals enrich and nourish my life.
Just a few things to mention...