What Are Your Thoughts on Dave Chappelle?

[Debater Slayer]

What are the thoughts of people here on Dave Chappelle? More specifically, I'm mainly thinking of his work in the last few years, since that's where a lot of his jokes about LGBT people, Me Too, and sexual assault allegations are.

I personally think he's a good comedian who has significantly polluted his comedy with thoughtless and irresponsible material. Sometimes there's a fine line between funny, insightful bluntness and dismissive, harmful tastelessness, and I think some of Chappelle's material falls within the latter category.

 

[Yerda]

He's really funny. That's all I need in a comedian.

 

[SalixIncendium]

As I see it, if one is offended by a comic or their joke, one is taking humor too seriously.

 

[Debater Slayer]

As I see it, if one is offended by a comic or their joke, they are taking humor too seriously.

I don't think that's necessarily the case. What if an influential comic jokes in a dismissive way about a subject like rape or sexual assault allegations, as Chappelle has done? Is this something that, as a net effect, affects society positively or negatively?

I think humor can be a powerful tool of conveying social, cultural, and political commentary. The idea that it should never be taken seriously seems to me oversimplified and too generalized, especially when a lot of comedians explicitly intend to convey such commentary through their work.

Not to mention that different people respond differently to trauma. I don't think it's my place to tell a sexual assault survivor that they shouldn't be offended by jokes that minimize or downplay the impact of their experiences.

 

[Debater Slayer]

He's really funny. That's all I need in a comedian.

What are your thoughts on his jokes about trans people (e.g., Caitlyn Jenner) and his comments on the people who came forward with sexual assault allegations against Michael Jackson and Louis C.K.?

(Warning per Rule 5: The links contain some language.)

 

[SalixIncendium]

I don't think that's necessarily the case. What if an influential comic jokes in a dismissive way about a subject like rape or sexual assault allegations, as Chappelle has done? Is this something that, as a net effect, affects society positively or negatively?

I think shedding light on things people take too seriously has a positive effect.

Daniel Tosh has a bit about childhood cancer. I lost a daughter to childhood cancer. I don't find his bit to be thoughtless and irresponsible, and I don't take exception to it. I'm sure he put a good bit of thought into it. And I understand he's a comic whose job is to make people laugh. If I take exception to the bit, that's on me, not him, and I'm responsible for my suffering that results from my taking exception to it.

What I think affects society in a negative way is when people see the negative in something that was intended to be positive as a result of taking things personally and brings that negativity to the forefront.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I think shedding light on things people take too seriously has a positive effect.

Daniel Tosh has a bit about childhood cancer. I lost a daughter to childhood cancer. I don't find his bit to be thoughtless and irresponsible, and I don't take exception to it. I'm sure he put a good bit of thought into it. And I understand he's a comic whose job is to make people laugh. If I take exception to the bit, that's on me, not him, and I'm responsible for the suffering that results from taking exception to it.

What I think affects society in a negative way is when people see the negative is something that was intended to be positive and brings that negativity to the forefront.

I have edited my post to add a couple of points I find relevant.

In a lot of cases, I disagree that it's only on the receiver of the message if they get offended by it, although I agree that this is sometimes the case. If I say something incendiary on purpose, I should know what kind of effect it will have on different types of people. I can't just publish unflattering cartoons of Muhammad or make fun of someone's loss of a loved one to a horrible disease and then say it's only on them if they get offended; I know exactly what I'm doing if I choose to do such things.

I haven't seen Daniel Tosh's segment, so I can't comment on his intentions or message. However, what I can say is that context matters as well: making jokes involving a potentially traumatic subject doesn't have to include minimizing its seriousness. Chappelle, however, does this multiple times, and he even makes it a point to downplay certain allegations of sexual assault.

Additionally, as I said in my previous post, trauma responses significantly vary among different people. What may be harmful to someone may be perfectly fine to another, and vice versa. I think people with public platforms and large audiences should keep this in mind instead of entirely dismissing a portion of disapproving reactions as "too sensitive" or "easily offended" without taking into account the complexity of responses to trauma and certain subjects.

 

[Guitar's Cry]

I tend to use Terry Pratchett's satire guideline: "Satire is meant to ridicule power. If you are laughing at people who are hurting, it's not satire, it's bullying."

 

[Debater Slayer]

I think shedding light on things people take too seriously has a positive effect.

By the way, I don't think people take sexual assault allegations "too seriously." If anything, the opposite is what tends to happen, at least where I live. I think someone with a wide audience and reach like Chappelle should be aware of this when putting out his material.

Some things need to be taken seriously, and for good reason.

 

[SalixIncendium]

I have edited my post to add a couple of points I find relevant.

I disagree that it's only on the receiver of the message if they get offended by it. If I say something incendiary on purpose, I should know what kind of effect it will have on different types of people. I can't just publish unflattering cartoons of Muhammad or make fun of someone's loss of a loved one to a horrible disease and then say it's only on them if they get offended; I know exactly what I'm doing if I choose to do such things.

I haven't seen Daniel Tosh's segment, so I can't comment on his intentions or message. However, what I can say is that context matters as well: making jokes involving a potentially traumatic subject doesn't have to include minimizing its seriousness. Chappelle, however, does this multiple times, and he even makes it a point to downplay certain allegations of sexual assault.

Additionally, as I said in my previous post, trauma responses significantly vary among different people. What may be harmful to someone may be perfectly fine to another, and vice versa. I think people with public platforms and large audiences should keep this in mind instead of entirely dismissing a portion of disapproving reactions as "too sensitive" or "easily offended" without taking into account the complexity of responses to trauma and certain subjects.

You and I haven't seen eye to eye on speaker/listener responsibility since we met on this forum a few years back, and I'm not sure any debate on this topic would sway either one's position.

That said, I'm not looking for a debate. You asked for my thoughts, and I shared them.

Anyway, in case you're interested in viewing the Tosh bit for reference, just Google "Daniel Tosh Eggplant."

 

[Mock Turtle]

What are your thoughts on his jokes about trans people (e.g., Caitlyn Jenner) and his comments on the people who came forward with sexual assault allegations against Michael Jackson and Louis C.K.?

(Warning per Rule 5: The links contain some language.)

I usually am not interested so much when comedians or whatever target individuals (not bothering to even watch them), but I despise those with influence (having such perhaps) who might target or defend those who are cited as being behind criminal offences - often when the individual is dead - when they should just keep their mouths shut. Because they usually just haven't got the knowledge to be able to do so - just a belief as to such.

 

[Debater Slayer]

You and I haven't seen eye to eye on speaker/listener responsibility since we met on this forum a few years back, and I'm not sure any debate on this topic would sway either one's position.

That said, I'm not looking for a debate. You asked for my thoughts, and I shared them.

Anyway, in case you're interested in viewing the Tosh bit for reference, just Google "Daniel Tosh Eggplant."

Thanks for your input and for giving the name of the segment. I'll look it up.

 

[Debater Slayer]

I usually am not interested so much when comedians or whatever target individuals (not bothering to even watch them), but I despise those with influence (having such perhaps) who might target or defend those who are cited as being behind criminal offences - often when the individual is dead - when they should just keep their mouths shut. Because they usually just haven't got the knowledge to be able to do so - just a belief as to such.

The only comedian I've ever had any kind of interest in watching is Jon Stewart, and I didn't follow him regularly either.

Daniel Tosh, Ricky Gervais, Seth MacFarlane, and Dave Chappelle have all made problematic comments and tried to pass them off as harmless comedy. I suspect the pressure to come up with something shocking and make people laugh to generate money drives some comedians to put out that kind of content, which is another reason I far prefer more spontaneous comedy to forced and sometimes harmfully vitriolic stand-up routines.

 

[Brickjectivity]

Comedians have a problem in which they often are told what they should or shouldn't say, and some of them have developed a reaction against that. They've linked arms to oppose censorship. For example there is pressure not to cuss, pressure not to talk about sex, religion, pressure not to talk about many different things. It isn't just Dave Chappelle but several very famous comedians who press against the critics and talk about a need to press against censorship. They purposely talk about sensitive issues for this reason. I've heard several famous comedians talk about it. They go out of their way to be offensive.

My opinion is that some comedians are just stupid and can't come up with anything except slapstick, but some comedians are very clever and are genuinely risking their careers to push back against censorship.

I haven't seen Dave Chappelle, but I heard about Dave Chappelle from the Tim Black show. Contrary to critics in the Wikipedia article Tim Black openly thinks Chappelle is terrific for speaking his mind -- for pushing the envelope of censorship.
DAVE CHAPPELLE’S NEW NETFLIX SPECIAL IS RIGHTEOUSLY COURAGEOUS | TIM BLACK – AltBlackNews | We don't all think alike

The following is the wikipedia article about the Dave Chappelle show and the criticism against it, offensive things it says:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticks_&_Stones_(2019_film)

Here is part of the opening section on controversy about the show:

"Sticks & Stones garnered controversy, receiving backlash for Chappelle's jokes about abuse allegations against Michael Jackson and R. Kelly, and for his commentary on the LGBT community, including a stereotypical impression of a Chinese person which he performed during a joke about transgender people.[87][88] Of the Michael Jackson allegations, Chappelle reiterated his stance to avoid watching HBO's Leaving Neverland (2019), which detailed Michael Jackson's alleged child abuse, as he remarked he doesn't believe the accusers due to Macaulay Culkin's stance in stating he wasn't molested by Jackson nor witnessed the singer assaulting anyone.[89][90] Jackson accuser Wade Robson responded to the special by stating: "Whether [Chappelle] believes I was sexually abused as a child, or not, is of no concern to me. Yet [...] to shame victims and trivialize and condone child sexual abuse in general, especially if the abuser is a celebrity or someone in a place of power, is disgusting, irresponsible and inexcusable on the part of [Chappelle], and on the part of Netflix [...]"[91][92]"

--https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sticks_%26_Stones_(2019_film)#Critical_reception​

So some people feel the Dave Chappelle has shamed victims and trivialized child sexual abuse + other things. Some other people think he's not actually doing this but is trying to get people to recognize the problem of child sexual abuse + other things.

 

[Vee]

Like most comedians, Dave Chapelle ruffles people's feathers. Making fun of serious issues is part of the job.
I don't take comedians that seriously. If I find them funny, I laugh. That's about it.

 

[Debater Slayer]

My opinion is that some comedians are just stupid and can't come up with anything except slapstick, but some comedians are very clever and are genuinely risking their careers to push back against censorship.

I'm not buying that Chappelle risked anything. He actually won an Emmy and a Grammy for those sketches, which emphasizes that any claim of "censorship" or "cancel culture" in his case is either a fabricated controversy or a PR stunt. He's doing fine and not being censored at all; the only thing that's happening is that many people are criticizing his content, which they have a right to do.

 

[Brickjectivity]

I'm not buying that Chappelle risked anything. He actually won an Emmy and a Grammy for those sketches, which emphasizes that any claim of "censorship" or "cancel culture" in his case is either a fabricated controversy or a PR stunt. He's doing fine and not being censored at all; the only thing that's happening is that many people are criticizing his content, which they have a right to do.

Maybe I will see it some time. I don't currently have Netflix. I had it just a month or two ago. I generally don't go around watching random comedians. There are a lot that aren't very funny to me. I'm a tough crowd.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Like most comedians, Dave Chapelle ruffles people's feathers. Making fun of serious issues is part of the job.
I don't take comedians that seriously. If I find them funny, I laugh. That's about it.

I don't see any reason to believe that a comedian necessarily has to downplay or dismiss something like sexual assault allegations as part of their job. There are many ways to joke about serious topics without making the jokes at the expense of others' trauma.

 

[Vee]

There are many ways to joke about serious topics without making the jokes at the expense of others' trauma.

Agree, but like so many other things in this world, the more something sells, the more people do it.
The only way to stop comedians from joking about serious topics is not buying tickets for their shows. In the end the consumer decides what sells. Same goes for food, video games, music, etc. There is a lot of rubbish our there, but as long as people want to buy it, the market will keep selling because someone is making a lot of money and in this world that has become more valuable than physical and emotional health. It pains me, really, but the only way I found to deal will all of that is to distance myself.

 

[PureX]

Comedians push at our boundaries. It's how we know where those boundaries are.