• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What Brought About the End of the Islamic Golden Age?

Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
Neil DeGrasse Tyson - The Islamic Golden Age: Naming Rights - YouTube

The Video Description said:
Neil deGrasse Tyson, an American astrophysicist and Director of the Hayden Planetarium, discusses how Islamic scholars contributed to the Islamic Golden Age and how over time independent reasoning (ijthad) lost out to modern institutionalised imitation (taqleed) present in the wider islamic society today.
Click to expand...

One of Tyson's key point seems to be that the Islamic Golden Age came to an end largely due to the influence of one man, Iman Hamid al-Ghazali. According to Tyson, al-Ghazali saw some kinds of learning, such as mathematics, as being from Satan. As his ideas caught on, the Golden Age came to an end.

Do you think Tyson is onto something? Why or why not?

What, in your opinion, brought about the end of the Islamic Golden Age?
 
Last edited:
Viker

Viker

Your beloved eccentric Auntie Cristal
Hordes of Mongols and heavier interaction with outside forces. Maybe it was time for Islam to put it's foot down and say something like, "This is no longer a democracy!".
 
I

InformedIgnorance

Do you 'know' or believe?
It was certainly the case that the central, Islamic world was far beyond the western, Christian world - in many respects comparable to the eastern, Buddhist world in terms of the level of technological development of their societies at large; the major reason that the western Christian societies continued to progress was their willingness to absorb new ideas after the renaissance, on the other hand, both Islamic and Buddhist societies saw the emergence of new ideas as a threat - in Islamic societies new meant departure from tradition (and yes perhaps even evil) while in Buddhist societies (particularly China) it meant destabilisation of the established order, where the established order was seen as integral to prosperity and well being - Islamic and Buddhist societies had their dark ages, but their renaissance has been stifled far more successfully than occured in the west.
 
sandandfoam

sandandfoam

Veteran Member
When I think of the Islamic Golden Age I think of Al-Andalus.
It was brought to it's end by war-hungry Christian zealots.
 
beenie

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
The inability to progress and adapt to a modernizing society played a huge role. The fact that people would buy into the argument that studying math and science is the work of the "devil" speaks volumes.

These were highly intelligent people who knew how to balance religious indoctrination with secular education (and could keep them separate from each other). Over time, many forgot how to progress and leave the superstitious garbage behind. By the time they could regroup, the message of progression and advances in modern society was lost. Their priorities shifted away from societal progress to building religious schools...hundreds of them...instead of staying on track.

Let's not forget outside forces too, though. They definitely saw a vulnerability and took advantage; however, if the Muslims of the Golden Age had stayed on track and united, they would have been more successful even in battle.

IMO.
 
England my lionheart

England my lionheart

Rockerjahili Rebel
Premium Member
Sunstone said:
[youtube]fDAT98eEN5Q[/youtube]
Neil DeGrasse Tyson - The Islamic Golden Age: Naming Rights - YouTube



One of Tyson's key point seems to be that the Islamic Golden Age came to an end largely due to the influence of one man, Iman Hamid al-Ghazali. According to Tyson, al-Ghazali saw some kinds of learning, such as mathematics, as being from Satan. As his ideas caught on, the Golden Age came to an end.

Do you think Tyson is onto something? Why or why not?

What, in your opinion, brought about the end of the Islamic Golden Age?
Click to expand...

I think al-Ghazali was responsible for starting the rot,prior to him Al Farabi a scientist,philosopher,logician,cosmologist and Musician,if Islam carried on in his way i think the Islamic world would be reaping the rewards for years to come.

Unfortunately for much of the Islamic world it reverted to medaevalism and conservative dogma,along with Al-Ghazali there was also ibn Tamiyya and the the inspiration of the Salafi movement and Muhammed ibn Abd al Wahhab,this going backwards idea seems to be shared by the Muslim Brotherhood of today,their slogan of "Islam is the answer" would have some truth in it if their path was the same as Al-Farabi,just my two pence worth.
 
beenie

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
England my lionheart said:
I think al-Ghazali was responsible for starting the rot,prior to him Al Farabi a scientist,philosopher,logician,cosmologist and Musician,if Islam carried on in his way i think the Islamic world would be reaping the rewards for years to come.

Unfortunately for much of the Islamic world it reverted to medaevalism and conservative dogma,along with Al-Ghazali there was also ibn Tamiyya and the the inspiration of the Salafi movement and Muhammed ibn Abd al Wahhab,this going backwards idea seems to be shared by the Muslim Brotherhood of today,their slogan of "Islam is the answer" would have some truth in it if their path was the same as Al-Farabi,just my two pence worth.
Click to expand...

Agreed
 
Marble

Marble

Rolling Marble
I read a little about the Ottoman Empire.
When I remember correctly what I've read, in the begining they were way ahead of any Western country.
In a time were in Europe famers were nothing more than slaves of the landowner, farmers in the Ottoman Empire were free people.
They had no other obligation towards the landowner than payment of a fixed sum of money - they could plant what they wanted and go were they wanted, something European farmers could only dream of.
But as times changed, the administration of the empire would have needed reforming which were not undertaken due to several reasons and therefore they declined.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
ssainhu said:
The inability to progress and adapt to a modernizing society played a huge role. The fact that people would buy into the argument that studying math and science is the work of the "devil" speaks volumes.

These were highly intelligent people who knew how to balance religious indoctrination with secular education (and could keep them separate from each other). Over time, many forgot how to progress and leave the superstitious garbage behind. By the time they could regroup, the message of progression and advances in modern society was lost. Their priorities shifted away from societal progress to building religious schools...hundreds of them...instead of staying on track.

Let's not forget outside forces too, though. They definitely saw a vulnerability and took advantage; however, if the Muslims of the Golden Age had stayed on track and united, they would have been more successful even in battle.

IMO.
Click to expand...
Near spot on, I'd say. This and the inborn sense of revulsion towards innovation, in almost any form.
 
K.Venugopal

K.Venugopal

Immobile Wanderer
I wish to ask - when Islamic Golden Age is spoken of is it not the golden age of the adherents of Islam that is spoken of? Muslim philosophers, scientists and engineers contributed to technology and culture of that period by preserving earlier Greek and Latin traditions and by adding their own inventions. It was not as if they got ideas from the Quran and applied them to create something new. I am not deprecating the right of anyone to categorize such achievements under the title "Islamic" but I think that is akin to categorizing a large number of Muslim sports-persons' achievements as Islamic achievements considering that there is nothing Islamic going into modern sports or its training regimes.
 
Marble

Marble

Rolling Marble
K.Venugopal said:
I wish to ask - when Islamic Golden Age is spoken of is it not the golden age of the adherents of Islam that is spoken of? Muslim philosophers, scientists and engineers contributed to technology and culture of that period by preserving earlier Greek and Latin traditions and by adding their own inventions. It was not as if they got ideas from the Quran and applied them to create something new. I am not deprecating the right of anyone to categorize such achievements under the title "Islamic" but I think that is akin to categorizing a large number of Muslim sports-persons' achievements as Islamic achievements considering that there is nothing Islamic going into modern sports or its training regimes.
Click to expand...
Didn't the ancient Romans stand on the shoulders of the Greeks and Etruscians who were before them?
They even took their gods from the Greeks!
 
Sunstone

Sunstone

De Diablo Del Fora
Premium Member
The Islamic Golden Age, as identified in the video, is the period from 800 to 1100 AD.
 
YmirGF

YmirGF

Bodhisattva in Recovery
Sunstone said:
The Islamic Golden Age, as identified in the video, is the period from 800 to 1100 AD.
Click to expand...
More accurately, it is from the mid-8th century to the middle of the 13th century. It's a small quibble tho. Sadly, either case leaves the vaunted Ottoman's out in the cold.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top