What caused the Christian and Muslim invasions of India?

[firedragon]

No, I’m speaking about people in general.

Many Muslims like to think of Muslims as “good imperialists” and Europeans as “bad imperialists”.

Ad hominem. Red herring.

Okay so you are not speaking about the United States.

How about Germany and England?

 

[Augustus]

Ad hominem. Red herring.

I’m actually very interested in if you can logically explain how my direct answer to your question in response to a reply to another poster could possibly be perceived as either of these things.

Just set out your reasoning if you are able.

If you can rationally justify your claims, I’ll answer your question and any follow ups, if you are incapable and are just being silly and dishonest we’ll say ciao and cheers.

 

[firedragon]

I’m actually very interested in if you can logically explain how my direct answer to your question in response to a reply to another poster could possibly be perceived as either of these things.

Your statement starting with "Many Muslims" is a red herrings and ad hominem.

Anyway, "How about Germany and England?"

 

[Augustus]

Your statement starting with "Many Muslims" is a red herrings and ad hominem.

Thank you. Now you have been more specific we can see what you have misunderstood so it can be corrected.

Giving some specific, factual examples to illustrate a general point is neither a “red herring” nor an “ad hominem”.

First of all, the examples are quite obviously correct (many Europeans and many Muslims do indeed have rose tinted views of their respective empires, wouldn’t you agree?)

A red herring is an attempt to mislead with irrelevant points, and a specific example of a general point is indeed relevant.

An ad hominem is a personal attack in lieu of an argument, and again a specific example illustrating a general point is not a personal attack and even if it were, it would not constitute an ad hominem as it was not in lieu of an argument but an example to illustrate a general argument.

Hopefully you can now see how your attempts to cry fallacy were in fact fallacious (as is so common in RF, folk who love to cry fallacy without justification and in lieu of actually addressing points with substance generally don’t understand fallacies and/or are inventing them by their own misunderstandings which is why you should always explain why you think something is a fallacy so any errors can be corrected)

Had you previously understood the statement “many Europeans” to also be a red herring and ad hominem?

Anyway, "How about Germany and England?"

Germany and England are widely considered to be “European” nations.

As such, in the context of my point, they fall under the banner “many Europeans…”

I thought that would be pretty easy to understand.

Once again, my point was that people in general tend to apply different standards to either older imperialists/colonisers (Romans, Vikings, Late Antique Muslims, etc.) or the ones that more closely match (or oppose) their modern identity.

Empires were generally far more complex and contradictory than can be forced into such a simplistic framework.

 

[River Sea]

Some of this is repeated. I need to edit this.

@GoodAttention
Is this a thread to discuss this so as not to continue to derail the Ehav4Ever thread about shepherds and farmers during BCE?

Yes, let's do this and discuss this in detail if I can do this. I hope I won't get too emotional, but if I do get emotional, maybe it's a time for me to process it then.

Here's your @GoodAttention post quote

Yes the Puranas, which the author states is "less reliable" of a source than the Greeks, Chinese, Italians, and Arabs who want to make a comment.

Perhaps it was harsh for me to make such a comparison, and you are correct it is opinion only. Mr Das is no longer with us to defend himself.

But as you have also pointed out, the words of liars must be pulled out root, stem, branch, and leaf and tossed onto a burning pyre before they can corrupt the masses.

Christian "white-washing" is cultural rape, and should be treated like Operation Hydra against Nazi Germany.

I'm not a Christian; however, I could claim I have similarities in Christianity. I think I have similarities in all religions.

So when you @GoodAttention wrote, "Christian "whitewashing" is cultural rape and should be treated like Operation Hydra against Nazi Germany."

First of all, I've had mistreatment by a few Christians; I've been called a dog who returns to vomit by a few Christians. "As a dog returns to his vomit, so a fool repeats his folly." Proverbs 26:11

That hurt. And I'm still processing that hurt. That happened elsewhere (not here).

However, these languages are using strong words that have their own meaning.

What was going on during Proverbs 26:11?
and your @GoodAttention words Operation Hydra, cultural rape?

Why do people use language to hurt people for?

So I'll put your post here in this thread and let me know if this is the area we can discuss this.

To recap: @Bharat Jhunjhunwala was showing that the word Bharat was used in the country of India, @Bharat Jhunjhunwala found this from a book.

I still don't understand how that caused strong words such as operation hydra, cultural rape?

The question was not about the credibility of this book. The question was whether Bharat was name of the area south of Pushkar and that map is sufficient and I see no reason to discredit it.

A book that @Bharat Jhunjhunwala showed in order to show saying "Bharat" on a map of India causes language from @GoodAttention using words such as, Operation Hydra, cultural rape in reference to Christianity, confuses me, as I wonder who is this author that triggered this? Who is Das, Amarnath, never heard of this author.

It causes me to wonder who is this author that causes such strong language from @GoodAttention in a thread about BCE farmers or shepherds?

Later @GoodAttention in another thread, and if you want me to reference, I will., sharing the new testament as if nothing had happened.

Here's an example.

I included salt for those who are interested in the Greek and New Testament, specifically this is to relate to Matthew 5:13-16 which is written as direct words of Jesus.

@GoodAttention this is from you explaining Matthew 5:13-16 which is written as direct words of Jesus

Yet earlier you @GoodAttention share

Christian "white-washing" is cultural rape, and should be treated like Operation Hydra against Nazi Germany.

Your @GoodAttention quote about to use operation hydra at was to @Bharat Jhunjhunwala who lives in India, who shared a map from a book by author Das, Amarnath, who showed India as named Bharat. Bharat means India.

Do you see how confusing this is for me?

To claim operation hydra to what Christians did when discussing BCE farming or shepherds is extremely confusing me. While @Bharat Jhunjhunwala joins the topic and shows ancient India.

I'm struggling keeping track when things happened.

while you @GoodAttention uses different eras to make your point. Yet you'll @GoodAttention later write about going towards Jesus? This makes no sense?

Who is Jesus actually, and what all happened? While at the same time you @GoodAttention think Christian culture raped and need to get rid of them by using Operation Hydra at them which includes getting rid of @Bharat Jhunjhunwala by using operation hydra as you claim @GoodAttention to do so, because showing map using name Bharat instead of name India, yet this was in a thread about BCE shepherds or farming? Reasoning why I'm moving this here in this thread. Topic about: what caused Christian Muslims invasions of India (it's a question), not means of putting down Christians and Muslims.

A while back, I had a question that was never looked at.

For the longest time I was learning from @Bharat Jhunjhunwala about borrowed loanwords from ancient Egypt.

Suddenly I saw the phrase, 'stealing words.' I wanted to ask during BCE what this was about stealing words and not borrowing words. That was my question. I did not know the author or who was in that article. I never did get to discuss my question. What is 'stealing words' vs. borrowing words that are then called borrowed loanwords? How did that happen during BCE? Reason why I couldn't ask my question is because you @GoodAttention took it away due to your dislike of the people in the article. I don't know these people in the article; these people are strangers. I was learning about these people through you @GoodAttention as you kept focusing on them, while I couldn't ask my question.

And due to this thread, it is called: What caused the Christian and Muslim invasions of India? I could ask a question: did Christians and Muslims ever steal words or only borrow words? See, it's a question to learn.

It's not meant to put down Christians or Muslims; it's taking a look at what happened, if it did happen at all.

To go into a country and to do what to that country is what

Perhaps this is the place for you @GoodAttention to explain cultural rape.

 

[River Sea]

Shorter version from @GoodAttention that I move here so could discuss in more detail and not derail the other thread

Christian "white-washing" is cultural rape, and should be treated like Operation Hydra against Nazi Germany.

To this

I included salt for those who are interested in the Greek and New Testament, specifically this is to relate to Matthew 5:13-16 which is written as direct words of Jesus.

Christianity language is extremely confusing

 

[GoodAttention]

Shorter version from @GoodAttention that I move here so could discuss in more detail and not derail the other thread

Christian "white-washing" is cultural rape, and should be treated like Operation Hydra against Nazi Germany.

To this

If you read my comment at the time I wrote it, you can see it was in reference to the author A Das. It was my belief that this person was a Christian. The author was using historical references to make conclusions about the history of India that I did not agree with. Hence, I believed this person was not being faithful to either history or the people of India. The book that my comment was specific for was writting in the 1930s.

I included salt for those who are interested in the Greek and New Testament, specifically this is to relate to Matthew 5:13-16 which is written as direct wsords of Jesus.
Christianity language is extremely confusing

This is specific Christian scripture, written at least 1700 years before the author A Das.

 

[servant1]

What caused the Christian and Muslim invasions of India?

Throwing Jesus away causes things like that.

 

[FredVB]

As surely noted it was the British Empire taking over India, that previously had self rule, though it was an empire with rule over others. Christianity came to India before, in earlier centuries, as did Islam, but such was testimony in India without any takeover.

 

[River Sea]

As surely noted it was the British Empire taking over India, that previously had self rule, though it was an empire with rule over others. Christianity came to India before, in earlier centuries, as did Islam, but such was testimony in India without any takeover.

@FredVB @Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention

Who do people in India pay their taxes to of what religion, compared to people in Germany who have to pay some of their taxes to Christianity?

If paying some of the taxes to religion in a country, did that religion take over that country?

 

[firedragon]

@FredVB @Bharat Jhunjhunwala @GoodAttention

Who do people in India pay their taxes to of what religion, compared to people in Germany who have to pay some of their taxes to Christianity?

If paying some of the taxes to religion in a country, did that religion take over that country?

I didn't know in Germany people pay taxes to "Christianity". Could you please be kind enough to give an idea how that's done? Do they pay the church?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I didn't know in Germany people pay taxes to "Christianity". Could you please be kind enough to give an idea how that's done? Do they pay the church?

When I took German in High School, we learned that in Germany people who are part of religious communities are taxed to support their religion. So for example, if you are a Catholic, x% of your paycheck goes to the Catholic church. If you are Jewish, your tax money supports the synagogues. People can and do opt out by officially leaving their faith communities. The money is collected by the government straight out of your paycheck, right alongside the income tax, and then distributes it.

 

[firedragon]

When I took German in High School, we learned that in Germany people who are part of religious communities are taxed to support their religion. So for example, if you are a Catholic, x% of your paycheck goes to the Catholic church. If you are Jewish, your tax money supports the synagogues. People can and do opt out by officially leaving their faith communities. The money is collected by the government straight out of your paycheck, right alongside the income tax, and then distributes it.

OMG. I never ever knew this. Thanks so much for the information Sir. Cheers.

 

[River Sea]

When I took German in High School, we learned that in Germany people who are part of religious communities are taxed to support their religion. So for example, if you are a Catholic, x% of your paycheck goes to the Catholic church. If you are Jewish, your tax money supports the synagogues. People can and do opt out by officially leaving their faith communities. The money is collected by the government straight out of your paycheck, right alongside the income tax, and then distributes it.

@IndigoChild5559
What about Hinduism? Could some of the people living in Germany who's into Hinduism have some of their taxes go towards Hinduism?

 

[IndigoChild5559]

@IndigoChild5559
What about Hinduism? Could some of the people living in Germany who's into Hinduism have some of their taxes go towards Hinduism?

I honestly don't know. I've never personally lived in Germany, and only know the general idea from what I learned in German class. It would make logical sense for the German government to do the same for Hindus, but governments aren't always rational.

*****

Okay, just ran an AI search on this, and it appears that Hindus are not included in the church tax system. So... not rational. Give them some time, they'll catch up.

 

[stvdv]

What caused the Christian and Muslim invasions of India?

Proselytizing belief: violent brainwashing others