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What constitutes a Prophet of the God of Abraham?

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
Thanks, you are right, that is indeed what it is, a system of practices, not a belief or faith.
I was making the parallel but I have never seen anyone in my path make claims through the aforementioned predictions (done in private to disciples) or use them in any public discussion as arguments for anything as that would perhaps be more the Abrahamic way.

I wonder if Bahai is better known in the Islamic world as my path is known in India eventhough the latter is of course more recent.

But my point is that teachers and paths need not be seen for whom they are in order for things to change the way they intended.
Even while he lived Ba'ba' said that he was working through many different organisations (that does sound a bit obscure but Ba'ba' was quite a mysterious man).

Perhaps the whole idea of prophets is a product of faith or belief.
 
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CG Didymus

Veteran Member
The issue I struggle with most is the slow growth of the Faith in the West and the perilous state of humanity. I believe Baha'u'llah is the Divine physician for this day, but humanity appears unwilling or unable to accept the medicine that God has prescribed. So I'm frustrated with humanity and even more frustrated with myself.
Yes, slow growth is a huge problem. I first learned of the Baha'i Faith when some Baha'is were quoting Pilgrim Notes about the "lessor peace" being established before the year 2000. And even though Baha'is say that Pilgrim Notes are not authoritative, it looks bad when a "prophesy" we can all see and verify doesn't come true.

I also struggle with the slow growth of the Faith in the West but who is really to blame for it when the UHJ considers community building more important than teaching the Faith? Most Baha'is just follow along and do what they are told to do, and that can even be used as an excuse not to teach.
Yes, there was a request for a certain amount of people to give $50 each, and by doing that, the next building could get built. I knew a Baha'i who gave the $50 and not long after more money was asked for.

1. Many people have never heard of the Baha’i Faith, so they do not know there is something to look for. It is the responsibility of the Baha’is to get the message out, so if that is not happening, the Baha’is are to blame. However, there are so few Baha’is and they are busy building the New World Order, and there is only so much time, so they can only do so much.
In the 70's, as I've mentioned before, my Baha'i friends were constantly going on teaching trips. All Baha'is, I was in Southern California at the time, knew about the need and importance of teaching. I even went with them several times.

The problem... it was too much like what other proselytizing religions do. They went to a minority community, sometimes Black, sometimes Hispanic, sometimes it was an Indian Reservation. An evening meeting was set up with food, a short film about the Baha'i Faith, some music and a speaker. The Baha'is, mostly young people went out and knocked on doors and invited people to the meeting... a meeting about the Baha'i Faith. Most of the people then asked, "What is the Baha'i Faith?" That was the opening that allowed them to start "teaching". So the people heard the basics, but very few came to the meetings. And even fewer joined. And even fewer remained members. This was called "Mass Teaching" and if they got several people to "sign" a declaration card, it was thought to be a great success. The ones I went to usually got less than four people.

2. But even after people know about the Baha’i Faith, most people are not even willing to look the evidence in order to determine if it is true or not.
The "evidence"? You know the problem... Has Baha'u'llah fulfilled the "prophecies"? Yes, for you, but no for others. Is he the return of Jesus? No, he's the return of the Christ spirit. The one I always ask, Jesus said there will be wars and rumors of wars but that is not yet the end. Baha'is give their interpretation of that, but it is still not fulfilling exactly what Jesus said. So, it leaves questions and reasons to doubt. Like... the "lessor Peace" question. When will it be established? What can Baha'is say? Someday? That the Pilgrim Notes were wrong? But that was Baha'is quoting things that Shoghi Effendi had said?

3. Even if they are willing to look at the evidence, there is a lot of prejudice before even getting out the door to look at the evidence.
I'd call them "pre-conceived" beliefs based on the interpretations of the religious teachers they follow. I'm not even a Christian and I don't believe in the Baha'i interpretations of the Book of Revelation. The three "Woes" are manifestations? And then there's the "comforter" being Baha'u'llah? Sure, easy for you to see that, but for a Christian, the comforter is the Holy Spirit. And who is this "Holy Spirit" to them? Well, he's, or it, is something that Baha'is tell them is not true, he is God... along with Jesus and the Father. And, I'd imagine, every religion has little things they believe to be true that Baha'is believe to be false. So, in the end, a person has to reject part of what their old religion has taught them.

4. 84% of people in the world already have a religion and they are happy with their religion so they have no interest in a “new religion.”
Statistics? I'll give you my "statistics" based on seeing and talking to a few people. Most all of them go to a church and sit there and then go home. Most of their kids are bored silly sitting their. Most all of them do very little to live or promote the life that their religion teaches. A life of loving, giving, helping others... and a live of not "sinning". Most all young people, it was actually all of them that I knew, broke the "chastity" laws. So if they "preached" about God, they were being hypocritical. Unfortunately, it was the same for the Baha'i young people I knew also. So is the religion livable and practical?

5. The rest of the world’s population is agnostics or atheists or believers who are prejudiced against all religion.
Baha'is say not have "superstitious" beliefs. That beliefs must go hand and hand with science. Yet, Baha'is say God is an unknowable essence. How you going to prove that? By his manifestations? We aren't even sure if some of the old ones were real or just made up. Then, even with Jesus, we don't even know what he really said or did. And, if we go by what the Baha'i Faith tells us, most of the stuff was probably embellishments.

6. Agnostics or atheists and atheists and believers who have no religion either do not believe that God communicates via Messengers or they find fault with the Messenger, Baha’u’llah.
It's not that hard to find "fault" with any of the manifestations. Were they "perfectly" polished mirrors? Yet, some of them killed people, told lies, had multiple wives etc.

7. Baha’u’llah brought new teachings and laws that are very different from the older religions so many people are suspicious of those teachings and/or don’t like the laws because some laws require them to give things up that they like doing.
The laws are too similar to Islamic laws. How are Baha'is going to enforce laws about sex and drinking? Even where the death penalty was used by God, people still disobeyed "God's" laws. Without people following all the laws, how is there ever going to be a just, peaceful world?

Then their is the average life of an average Baha'i. In the U.S. what do Baha'is do? How many "live" the life? How many go to feast? How many teach the "Cause"? I saw the Baha'i community back in the 70's and 80's, there was not perfect harmony. There were problems. And who "fixed" the problems? Going to the local Spiritual Assembly". Having a Counselor step in? I was there when the "Dialogue" magazine thing happened. I met one of the editors. An article on how to "fix" the problems got them all in trouble with the National Spiritual Assembly. So if things aren't "perfect" some people are going to join and get disillusioned... same as with most all other religions. So why change from one religion that doesn't quite work to another one that promises to have all the answers, and that is the "remedy" for all the ills of society, but, in actuality, it still has the problem of people not being perfect. People that say one thing but do another. People that say a "new" day has dawned, but are still living like all the people that are living in the darkness? But, I think you know all that. So how do you fix it?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
So why change from one religion that doesn't quite work to another one that promises to have all the answers, and that is the "remedy" for all the ills of society, but, in actuality, it still has the problem of people not being perfect. People that say one thing but do another. People that say a "new" day has dawned, but are still living like all the people that are living in the darkness? But, I think you know all that. So how do you fix it?
Whether a religion is true or false has absolutely NOTHING to do with the people who belong to it because all humans are fallible and imperfect. That is one reason so many people cannot see prophecies that were fulfilled, because they cannot accept the fact that they could be wrong and they do not even try to understand why they are wrong. They just cling to what they already believe or disbelieve. It's no use discussing the prophecies over and over and over again with people who think they already have all the answers, and you winder why more Baha'is do not teach. My brother gave up talking to Christians during the first few years after he became a Baha'i, back in 1968. I did not know why he gave up back then but I do know now. It is completely hopeless talking to people who believe that Jesus us the only way. Where can you go from there? Nowhere.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
I have a friend who believes in a certain (to me obscure) New Age theory that different guru's and teachers from the past are in a succession of spiritual masters. I'm not sure about details but my friend likes to include Ba'ba' in that theory (which is in no way supported by anything Ba'ba spoke about himself).

It sounds somewhat similar to the Bahai theory of successive prophets.

Here's a website with such ideas:
Ascended Master List of all Ascended Masters

In a way Bahai could be seen as a very early form of New Age as it also stresses the unity between spiritual paths. Only New Age people are more reluctant to accept any singular authority in spiritual matters.
 

pearl

Well-Known Member
What constitutes a Prophet of the God of Abraham?

For me the answer is stated beautifully by Abraham Heschel as he writes about the prophet and a 'divine pathos' with the mind of God.
To the prophets, the divine pathos is not an absolute force which exists regardless of man, something ultimate or eternal. It is rather a reaction to human history, an attitude called forth by man's conduct; an effect, not a cause. Man is in a sense an agent, not only the recipient. It is within his power to deserve either the pathos of love or the pathos of anger.

God's concern for justice grows out of His compassion for man. The prophets do not speak of a divine relationship to an absolute principle or idea, called justice. They are intoxicated with the awareness of God's relationship to His people and to all men.
An analysis of prophetic utterances shows that the fundamental experience of the prophet is a fellowship with the feelings of God, a sympathy with the divine pathos, a communion with the divine consciousness which comes about through the prophet's reflection of, or participation in, the divine pathos. The typical prophetic state of mind is one of being taken up into the heart of the divine pathos. Sympathy is the prophet's answer to inspiration, the correlative to revelation.
Pathos and Prophecy -- Abraham Heschel - Clarion: Journal of Spirituality and Justice (clarion-journal.com)
I would encourage anyone to read 'The Prophets' volume I, II
 

CG Didymus

Veteran Member
Whether a religion is true or false has absolutely NOTHING to do with the people who belong to it because all humans are fallible and imperfect.
If a religion can't make people infallible and perfect, then people will continue to be fallible and imperfect. So what good are all the things religions say? People will continue to fall short on how God wants people to live and behave. And, eventually, will mess up the religion. Or, will it be different in the Baha'i Faith?
 

Trailblazer

Veteran Member
If a religion can't make people infallible and perfect, then people will continue to be fallible and imperfect. So what good are all the things religions say? People will continue to fall short on how God wants people to live and behave. And, eventually, will mess up the religion. Or, will it be different in the Baha'i Faith?
No religion can make people infallible and perfect because humans were not created to be that way. All we can do is strive for perfection, little by little, day by day.

It is not a given that the Baha'is will mess up the religion. The Baha'i Faith is different because we have a written Covenant which protects us from disunity and from changing what was revealed by Baha'u'llah. No other religion ever had that.
 
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