What controls the mind and thoughts?

[Renji]

Will that not mean that one has no control at all? Whatever the brain does it does?

I did not say that. Rather, it is "part of us" that is responsible for "helping" us control, perceive and express our actions. Why do I say so? The brain, being part of the nervous system is responsible why we are capable of "performing" voluntary (things that we can control, like our emotions) and involuntary actions (heart beat, breathing, digestion, etc). If I say that yeah,I do mean "that one has no control at all" and "whatever the brain does it does", then that would mean that thinking and expression is actually an involuntary action, hence, voluntary actions does not "exist" at all. That would also mean that you can't make decisions by your own since it is the brain that does it all.

 

[atanu]

I did not say that. Rather, it is "part of us" that is responsible for "helping" us control, perceive and express our actions. Why do I say so? The brain, being part of the nervous system is responsible why we are capable of "performing" voluntary (things that we can control, like our emotions) and involuntary actions (heart beat, breathing, digestion, etc). If I say that yeah,I do mean "that one has no control at all" and "whatever the brain does it does", then that would mean that thinking and expression is actually an involuntary action, hence, voluntary actions does not exist at all. That would also mean that you can't make decisions by your own since it is the brain that does it all.

Ya. Now I get it.

What i do not get is how products of chemical reactions assert their viewpoint saying "I am correct"; "I am rational"; "My thoughts are rational" etc. etc.

 

[PolyHedral]

Obviously. The brain is different from your limbs, which the person can see as it sees the brain. LImbs do not say that they see the person, just as brain does not say. Man sees the brain.

You can lose a limb withotu your personality being affected at all. You cannot lose a segment of your brain without personality change.

 

[sniper762]

if you believe that god and satin influence a person and you are knowledgeable about anatomy then going through the brain is the only way that they could make a person act a particular way.

 

[atanu]

if you believe that god and satin influence a person and you are knowledgeable about anatomy then going through the brain is the only way that they could make a person act a particular way.

Will you kindly explain? I think that I understand you but will be sure if you explained a bit.

 

[Renji]

Ya. Now I get it.

What i do not get is how products of chemical reactions assert their viewpoint saying "I am correct"; "I am rational"; "My thoughts are rational" etc. etc.

Good then! In my opinion, the thinking that "I am correct", "I am rational" and the like is or can be influenced by "external" factors (or stimuli if it's appropriate). For example, in the case that a child is raised as a Christian, then that child, as he grow up can perceive that whatever that is taught as "good" by his denomination is actually "correct", "moral" or "worth believing". Hence if you ask him: "Is believing in God, as the maker of heaven and earth worth believing?" then, the answer could be yes, because that's what is instilled in his mind. Or it could be that those thinking that you mentioned can be based on what the person "sees" or sensed with his senses, like for example, "how do I know that there's a computer?" -because I am using it. It's tangible, I can see it and so on.

 

[atanu]

You can lose a limb withotu your personality being affected at all. You cannot lose a segment of your brain without personality change.

So? Your confusion is that you equate the person with the attributes. Even if core of a machine is desroyed, the owner of the machine is not.

 

[atanu]

Good then! In my opinion, the thinking that "I am correct", "I am rational" and the like is or can be influenced by "external" factors (or stimuli if it's appropriate). For example, in the case that a child is raised as a Christian, then that child, as he grow up can perceive that whatever that is taught as "good" by his denomination is actually "correct", "moral" or "worth believing". Hence if you ask him: "Is believing in God, as the maker of heaven and earth worth believing?" then, the answer could be yes, because that's what is instilled in his mind. Or it could be that those thinking that you mentioned can be based on what the person "sees" or sensed with his senses, like for example, "how do I know that there's a computer?" -because I am using it. It's tangible, I can see it and so on.

I agree. But when I say "I see it", do I see the "I"? Or can we say that "I see brain but there is no I?" Or can we say "I and the brain that I see are same"?

The Seer sees. Then who or what can see the Seer?

 

[sniper762]

what lawrence refers to is "learned" knowledge, much different than instinctive or spiritual knowledge. one is born with the latter. where does it come from? depends on your belief.

both have control over ones actions, but the latter CAN over rule the former.

 

[Gjallarhorn]

what lawrence refers to is "learned" knowledge, much different than instinctive or spiritual knowledge. one is born with the latter. where does it come from? depends on your belief.

both have control over ones actions, but the latter CAN over rule the former.

Our instinctive knowledge favors kin selection. Meaning, if you had to save a brother or a group of strangers, you would choose the brother if you followed your instincts.

 

[Renji]

I agree. But when I say "I see it", do I see the "I"? Or can we say that "I see brain but there is no I?" Or can we say "I and the brain that I see are same"?

The Seer sees. Then who or what can see the Seer?

I'm not sure if I can follow that. Hmm, let's see... You cannot say that You and the brain "that you see" is "the same". Why? because if that is so, then you're the brain itself! You cannot say that "I see the brain, but there's no I" because if there's no "I", then who saw it??? I think it's rather correct to say that the "brain" is part of the "I", but both does not necessarily equate the other. Get it?

Who sees the seer? Perhaps himself, that's why it is "I".

 

[sniper762]

and much much more, survival being one

 

[Renji]

Our instinctive knowledge favors kin selection. Meaning, if you had to save a brother or a group of strangers, you would choose the brother if you followed your instincts.

I was about to state that. Good thing you mentioned it

 

[Renji]

if you believe that god and satin influence a person and you are knowledgeable about anatomy then going through the brain is the only way that they could make a person act a particular way.

I can remember the saying that the mind (or "brain") is the temple of the Holy Spirit, however there is also this "other thing" that suggests the opposite that the Spirit states. They say that it is in the mind that "God and Satan wrestles", however, it is not always those "thoughts" that can or will make you do what's good or bad, but the "will" or the "urge" of "wanting" or "opting" the person to do the act. That's why the saying "the devil made me do it" is absolutely incorrect. Besides, can you see/hear the devil on the first place?

 

[sniper762]

i didnt say that either "make you do it" i said that one or the other provides the "influence".
the person then acts upon that influence by choice

 

[Renji]

i didnt say that either "make you do it" i said that one or the other provides the "influence".
the person then acts upon that influence by choice

I just expounded my opinion.:angel2:

 

[atanu]

I can remember the saying that the mind (or "brain") is the temple of the Holy Spirit, however there is also this "other thing" that suggests the opposite that the Spirit states. They say that it is in the mind that "God and Satan wrestles",

Yes. Mind and Being (Spirit) are not same. Mind is a mirror and its modification appears as the universe. How else the Being would see itself?

 

[Yeshe Dawa]

You can lose a limb withotu your personality being affected at all. You cannot lose a segment of your brain without personality change.

Hi PolyHedral!

This may be true, but in eastern religions the personality is not the mindstream or the Atman.

Peace and blessings,
Yeshe
:flower2: