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What convinced you that Evolution is the truth?

F1fan

Veteran Member
I am a child of God, thru Faith in Jesus Christ,
This isn't fact-based. Who told you these ideas are true? Why did you believe them?

He created us,
No Gods are known to exist.

But if you are right, why did God create so many children with genes that cause cancer? Surely you blame God for these children suffering and dying, yes? How else could cancer have come about if God hadn't allowed it?
He is! before anything created came into being,
Like Satan and the Fall. All as God created.
And God desires relationship with us.
A real God would alreay relate to us by just existing.

What you seem to be saying is that the God you imagine relates to you in your imagination, and that is treated as a relationship. Notice only Christians who imagine God a certain way claim to relate to God. Can you prove it isn't imagined?
He promises for all who believe in him, that he will never leave us nor forsake us, and I have experienced his presence thousands of times, His peace, his Love, and forgiveness, and his comforting promises give me hope and empower me to live a life free of fear, anger, lust, hatred, hopelessness, Pride, greed, etc., which all mankind is in one way or another bound to before being Born again!.
I'm not convinced. You made a lot of extraordinary claims but offered no facts. So we reject it.
These are truths I live by, and they are real truths to everyone who truly believes.
So a fantasy that's treated as if real. Let's noty that all belief is uncertain. We have beliefs because we aren't sure of the ide being factual, and we must concede the possibility of being wrong. Do you not live in such a way that you can show humility and that you could be mistaken?
You assume I am wrong because you never have believed.
So arrogance and pride drives your confidence? Remember, Muslims believe too, so they are correct just because they are confident?
I can only tell you what I have come to know, by experiencing God. i would be lying to say anything else!
Yet you don't show that any of your beliefs are rational conclusions using reason and following evidence. Your testimony is like any other person who was indoctrinated and have no ideas why they believe what they do.
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
LET'S TALK ABOUT REAL SCIENCE;
One of the basic reasons why the theory of evolution cannot explain how the cell came into existence is the "irreducible complexity" in it.
Irreducible complexity is a fraud. Behe admitted it in the Dover case a few decades ago. And not only that scientists have debunked this idea already. Who is still claiming this is true, and why did you believe them? It's fraud.

The Protein
WHICH IS ONLY ONE of the building-blocks of a ....

Please tell me the errors ABOVE!, BUT NOT with vague comments, Please state real facts that refute them!
You should cite the source you plagiarized from. It's not for us you correct your copied homework. Make your claims, cite your source, and we will explain how you got science wrong, which you have so far.
 

TLK Valentine

Read the books that others would burn.
LET'S TALK ABOUT REAL SCIENCE;

This should be fun...

One of the basic reasons why the theory of evolution cannot explain how the cell came into existence is the "irreducible complexity" in it. A living cell maintains itself with the harmonious co-operation of many organelles. If only one of these organelles fails to function, the cell cannot remain alive. The cell does not have the chance to wait for unconscious mechanisms like natural selection or mutation to permit it to develop. Thus, the first cell on earth was necessarily a complete cell possessing all the required organelles and functions, and this definitely means that this cell had to have been created.

So moving to the actual functioning components of the cell that make it work. These crucial accidents, as you believe, are absolutely necessary to function in unison with one another within a very short period of time, lest although they may somehow form separately (by your assumed accidental miracles) all other vital parts of the cell need to simultaneously come into existence at the same time, or they will become useless and die!
So much for billions of years happening while each individual part comes to life for no apparent reason, and just waitng around to connect and function together, to then POOF (but remember, no intelligent design involved) a cell has evolved!! Because that is what evolution is correct "Change".


The Protein
WHICH IS ONLY ONE of the building-blocks of a cell. The formation, under natural conditions, of just one single protein out of the thousands of complex protein molecules making up the cell is impossible. Proteins are giant molecules consisting of smaller units called "amino acids" that are arranged in a particular sequence in certain quantities and structures. These units
constitute the building blocks of a living protein. The simplest protein is composed of 50 amino acids, but there are some that contain thousands.

The fact that it is quite impossible for the functional structure of proteins to come about by chance can easily be observed even by simple probability calculations that anybody can understand. For instance, an average-sized protein molecule composed of 288 amino acids, and contains twelve different types of amino acids can be arranged in 10300 different ways. (This is an astronomically huge number, consisting of 1 followed by 300 zeros.) Of all these possible sequences, only one forms the desired protein molecule. The rest of them are amino-acid chains that are either totally useless or else potentially harmful to living things. In other words, the probability of the formation of only one protein molecule is "1 in 10300". The probability of this "1" to occur is practically nil. (In practice, probabilities smaller than 1 over 1050 are thought of as "zero probability").

When we proceed one step further in the evolutionary scheme of life, we observe that one single protein means nothing by itself. One of the smallest bacteria ever discovered, Mycoplasma hominis H39, contains 600 "types" of proteins. In this case, we would have to repeat the probability calculations we have made above for one protein for each of these 600 different types of proteins. The result beggars even the concept of impossibility.

Please tell me the errors ABOVE!, BUT NOT with vague comments, Please state real facts that refute them!

One of the fundamental premises of irreducble complexity is that the necessary parts of a system have always been necessary, and therefore could not have been added sequentially. This is utter hogwash- something which is at first merely advantageous can later become necessary.

Once you realize that, the "irreducible complexity" argument falls apart - even without the "big odds might as well be zero" hysterics.

Thank you for playing; let's meet our next contestant...
 
You should cite the source you plagiarized from. It's not for us you correct your copied homework. Make your claims, cite your source, and we will explain how you got science wrong, which you have so far
I don't claim to have come up with the information I provided, if you followed the thread from previous discussions you see I provided the link, but nobody addressed the article but only came up with vague comments that never spoke to the validity of it. But after asking for criticisms to the article (if actually read) nobody ever spoke to anything within the article but only criticized me.

The link is http://www.esalq.usp.br/lepse/imgs/conteudo_thumb/The-Complexity-of-the-Cell.pdf
Irreducible complexity is a fraud. Behe admitted it in the Dover case a few decades ago. And not only that scientists have debunked this idea already. Who is still claiming this is true, and why did you believe them? It's fraud.


You should cite the source you plagiarized from. It's not for us you correct your copied homework. Make your claims, cite your source, and we will explain how you got science wrong, which you have so far.
It seems you are correct, on the irreducible complexity Theory, I put up the white flag, that it is not proven to be absolute.

This still does not change the reasonable understanding that the cell and it's components could not have come together randomly. How long have the experts, tried to replicate a cell, within the lab with every element and having the perfect resources and environment to their advantage and still have not done so with all their techknowledgy and expertise.
 
This isn't fact-based. Who told you these ideas are true? Why did you believe them?
God did, I put my faith in Jesus Christ believing him to be my savior, and accepted his salvation. I then experienced his presence and have been believing in him ever since. The experience was then confirmed later when I read the Bible and in Romans 8:16 it Says, And the Spirit of God witnesses with our Spirit that we are Children of God...........It is absolutely fact based to me. Your unbelief does not nullify that for me.....Only for you!
 
But if you are right, why did God create so many children with genes that cause cancer? Surely you blame God for these children suffering and dying, yes? How else could cancer have come about if God hadn't allowed it?
That's a very good question, And yes God has allowed it. Death, sickness disease, hatred, fear, even the world we live in NOW is a result of man's sin, i.e. hurricanes, tornadoes etc. and they have come to us all thru the first man created on this earth.

Roman 5:12 Therefore, just as sin entered the world through one man, and death through sin, and in this way death came to all people, because all sinned.

But this will not last. God is going to make all things new one day!

Revelation 21:1-5
Then I saw “a new heaven and a new earth,”[a] for the first heaven and the first earth had passed away, and there was no longer any sea. 2 I saw the Holy City, the new Jerusalem, coming down out of heaven from God, prepared as a bride beautifully dressed for her husband. 3 And I heard a loud voice from the throne saying, “Look! God’s dwelling place is now among the people, and he will dwell with them. They will be his people, and God himself will be with them and be their God. 4 ‘He will wipe every tear from their eyes. There will be no more death’[b] or mourning or crying or pain, for the old order of things has passed away.”

5 He who was seated on the throne said, “I am making everything new!” Then he said, “Write this down, for these words are trustworthy and true.”
 

Pogo

Well-Known Member
I don't claim to have come up with the information I provided, if you followed the thread from previous discussions you see I provided the link, but nobody addressed the article but only came up with vague comments that never spoke to the validity of it. But after asking for criticisms to the article (if actually read) nobody ever spoke to anything within the article but only criticized me.

The link is http://www.esalq.usp.br/lepse/imgs/conteudo_thumb/The-Complexity-of-the-Cell.pdf

It seems you are correct, on the irreducible complexity Theory, I put up the white flag, that it is not proven to be absolute.

This still does not change the reasonable understanding that the cell and it's components could not have come together randomly. How long have the experts, tried to replicate a cell, within the lab with every element and having the perfect resources and environment to their advantage and still have not done so with all their techknowledgy and expertise.
this is just an argument from incredulity, and no-one is saying that modern cells like pictures in your link came together randomly.
however we have a great deal of evidence for possible precursors such as lipid bilayers that are actually simple cell walls and self replicating molecules that can form the basis for heritability. These are parts of the study of abiogenisis and have nothing actually to do with evolution itself.
 
Like Satan and the Fall. All as God created.
God created Angels and (Satan and mankind). with free will! The evils in this world a VERY DIRECT result of our disobedience to God's way, his will for us and his commandments! To make us obey him would remove free will. If someone is told not to jump off a cliff lest they die!, and they do it anyway, is the person who warned the jumper the one who is to blame for his death?
I get it in some ways that we want to blame God for the terrible things We do to one another and yes for the diseases and sicknesses in this world, but at the same time he also freely offers a way out of this mess! Salvation, redemption, NEW LIFE to where we are promised this NEW Heaven and NEW earth by recognizing and admitting we have sinned, repenting and turning to GOD.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
I don't claim to have come up with the information I provided, if you followed the thread from previous discussions you see I provided the link, but nobody addressed the article but only came up with vague comments that never spoke to the validity of it. But after asking for criticisms to the article (if actually read) nobody ever spoke to anything within the article but only criticized me.

The link is http://www.esalq.usp.br/lepse/imgs/conteudo_thumb/The-Complexity-of-the-Cell.pdf

It seems you are correct, on the irreducible complexity Theory, I put up the white flag, that it is not proven to be absolute.

This still does not change the reasonable understanding that the cell and it's components could not have come together randomly. How long have the experts, tried to replicate a cell, within the lab with every element and having the perfect resources and environment to their advantage and still have not done so with all their techknowledgy and expertise.
They did not come together randomly. Natural selection. a huge part of evolution, is the opposite of random.
 
A real God would alreay relate to us by just existing.

What you seem to be saying is that the God you imagine relates to you in your imagination, and that is treated as a relationship. Notice only Christians who imagine God a certain way claim to relate to God. Can you prove it isn't imagined?
My life is proof to those who know me. My life was filled with lust, anger, fear, worry, Pride, ( all the attributes that are in direct opposition to God). ALthough I am still not perfect nor ever will be on this side of eternity, My life is dramatically changed, And God really does many things, spiritually in my heart, but also materially, I am always asking (praying) for his provision, protection, comfort, and peace and I truly have received all these things.
II Corinthians 5:17 If any man is in Christ he is a new creation, Behold old things have passed away and all things become NEW.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
God created Angels and (Satan and mankind). with free will! The evils in this world a VERY DIRECT result of our disobedience to God's way, his will for us and his commandments! To make us obey him would remove free will. If someone is told not to jump off a cliff lest they die!, and they do it anyway, is the person who warned the jumper the one who is to blame for his death?
I get it in some ways that we want to blame God for the terrible things We do to one another and yes for the diseases and sicknesses in this world, but at the same time he also freely offers a way out of this mess! Salvation, redemption, NEW LIFE to where we are promised this NEW Heaven and NEW earth by recognizing and admitting we have sinned, repenting and turning to GOD.
That is a bit of a strawman argument on your part. Didn't you read the Genesis myths? God set Adam and Eve up for failure in that story. Also if you understood all of the endless evidence for evolution and only evidence against the creation myths you would realize that the only way that the events could have happened is if God lied by planting endless false evidence telling us that the myths of Genesis never happened. If God cannot lie then you cannot read Genesis literally.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
My life is proof to those who know me. My life was filled with lust, anger, fear, worry, Pride, ( all the attributes that are in direct opposition to God). ALthough I am still not perfect nor ever will be on this side of eternity, My life is dramatically changed, And God really does many things, spiritually in my heart, but also materially, I am always asking (praying) for his provision, protection, comfort, and peace and I truly have received all these things.
II Corinthians 5:17 If any man is in Christ he is a new creation, Behold old things have passed away and all things become NEW.
That would only be evidence that you changed. People of other religions have almost the same story. Is that proof that their Gods exist too? If it is not proof of their Gods your experience is not proof of yours.
 
I'm not convinced. You made a lot of extraordinary claims but offered no facts. So we reject it.
I will never be able to convince you! I can Only speak the truth and by the Holy Spirit living in me, live the truth.

ONLY God can truly convict you! And reveal himself to you!

John 16:8 And when the Holy Spirit comes, he will convict the world of its sin, and of God’s righteousness, and of the coming judgment.

Jeremiah 29:13-14 Then you will call upon Me and come and pray to Me, and I will listen to you. 13You will seek Me and find Me when you search for Me with ALL YOUR HEART. 14 I will then be found by you, declares the LORD, and I will restore you from captivity.........

John 1:12-13. But as many as received Him, to them HE gave the right to become children of God, to those who believe in His name: who were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.
 
So a fantasy that's treated as if real. Let's noty that all belief is uncertain. We have beliefs because we aren't sure of the ide being factual, and we must concede the possibility of being wrong. Do you not live in such a way that you can show humility and that you could be mistaken?
True Faith is believing without physically seeing God, but it is not Blind Faith. Once we put our trust in God by believing in him.........He will reveal himself to us, Not to anyone else, except that they too believe!. This is the Hallmark of the Christian belief. It is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things Not seen!
 
So arrogance and pride drives your confidence? Remember, Muslims believe too, so they are correct just because they are confident?
TO be certain of one's Belief in Jesus Christ to be who HE said he is, and that is it necessary to Trust and believe in him for Salvation is confirmed by the Living God who saves us.

He reveals himself to us, and convicts us in our Being that we now have true relationship with God! A intimate oneness that exceeds all Earthly relationships,.i.e marriage, Father to son, brothers and sisters, best friends, he is all of these and so much more.

And I am very certain that he is True and real, and my hope rests in what HE HAS DONE FOR ME, not anything I have done for him.......... but to simply Believe!

So, I in no way am attempting or wanting to be arrogant or proud, But I truly am Certain!
 
So arrogance and pride drives your confidence? Remember, Muslims believe too, so they are correct just because they are confident?
Certainty! THRU Faith in God! drives me.

As for Muslims or any other belief (Atheism). We obviously ALL can't be right! We could all be wrong ....granted, and I say this because I can't prove God to anyone else.
But Jesus said something and all have to make a Decision! whether you believe or not!

John 14:6 "I am THE Way THE Truth, and THE Life! And noone comes to the Father, (enters into heaven) without me!" And there is a profound reason why he said that, that stands Christianity far apart from all other religions,...but for another discussion!

That, to alot of people is about an arrogant a statement as one could speak..................That is, Unless he is Right!

I believe with all my heart that Jesus Christ is right!
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
That's a very good question, And yes God has allowed it. Death, sickness disease, hatred, fear, even the world we live in NOW is a result of man's sin, i.e. hurricanes, tornadoes etc. and they have come to us all thru the first man created on this earth.
And it's the same as if no God existed and this is all just nature doing its thing. No Gods are known to exist, so there is no reason to assume any exists. Interpreting ancient books and following obsolete religious traditions is not a rational alternative in 2024.

God created Angels and (Satan and mankind). with free will! ....
None of this is true. No Gods are known to exist. You seem to think we all assume your idea of God exists. We don't care what you believe. And you offer no reason for any of us to assume it does. So whatever you believe is irrelevant unless you can provide evidence. Where is it?

My life is proof to those who know me.
We don't care about your life and beliefs. Where is your evidence that what you believe is rational and true? This is a debate forum, you need to explain how your claims are reasonable and true. What you believe is irrelevant otherwise.

I will never be able to convince you!
Then you haven't come to a rational conclusion for the beliefs you have. Those with credible beliefs can show why they are rational and factual.
I can Only speak the truth and by the Holy Spirit living in me, live the truth.
This isn't factual.
ONLY God can truly convict you! And reveal himself to you!
No Gods are known to exist, and you haven't demonnstrated any exist. Do you not have any evidence? If not what is your purpose on a debate forum?

True Faith is ...
... a song by New Order.
believing without physically seeing God, but it is not Blind Faith.
There's no such thing as true faith given what believers claim, but can't verify.
Once we put our trust in God by believing in him.........He will reveal himself to us, Not to anyone else, except that they too believe!. This is the Hallmark of the Christian belief. It is the assurance of things hoped for, the evidence of things Not seen!
Which humans in your life told you all this is true? Why did you believe them?
 

F1fan

Veteran Member
TO be certain of one's Belief in Jesus Christ to be who HE said he is, and that is it necessary to Trust and believe in him for Salvation is confirmed by the Living God who saves us.

He reveals himself to us, and convicts us in our Being that we now have true relationship with God! A intimate oneness that exceeds all Earthly relationships,.i.e marriage, Father to son, brothers and sisters, best friends, he is all of these and so much more.

And I am very certain that he is True and real, and my hope rests in what HE HAS DONE FOR ME, not anything I have done for him.......... but to simply Believe!
None of this is factual or an argument. This just proseyltizing. I'm not sure why you are writing all this, it appears to be a rule violation. We don't care what you believe.
So, I in no way am attempting or wanting to be arrogant or proud, But I truly am Certain!
Oh the irony. This is arrogance. And denial.

Certainty! THRU Faith in God! drives me.

As for Muslims or any other belief (Atheism).
Atheism is non-theism. It's not a belief. Atheism is not believing any God exists. Atheists ask questions and theists can't offer any answer that is reasoned or factual. Atheists seek truth, and theists don't have it.
We obviously ALL can't be right! We could all be wrong ....granted, and I say this because I can't prove God to anyone else.
If you admit we can be wrong then how do you justify your prior claim of being certain? You can't have it both ways.
But Jesus said something and all have to make a Decision! whether you believe or not!
There's no writings or audio from Jesus. All we have are quotes attributed to the character Jesus in Bible stories. These stories have fantastic elements that are not consistent, verified, or plausible, so can't be treated as true.
John 14:6 "I am THE Way THE Truth, and THE Life! And noone comes to the Father, (enters into heaven) without me!" And there is a profound reason why he said that, that stands Christianity far apart from all other religions,...but for another discussion!

That, to alot of people is about an arrogant a statement as one could speak..................That is, Unless he is Right!

I believe with all my heart that Jesus Christ is right!
Many humans have written inspiring dialog for fictional characters. Why assume Jesus was real as depicted in Bible stories?
 

Hockeycowboy

Witness for Jehovah
Premium Member

“What convinced you that Evolution is the truth?”​


(This may be a different take on this subject that many haven’t thought of, even among my brothers & sisters; please bear with me, I don’t want to offend….)

Because of the adaptations we have observed in life forms. But its effects have limitations. And I believe there’s a Divine purpose behind this ability to adapt / mutate….

Now I’m a staunch supporter of the Bible, and that while there are unlimited ways to misunderstand it, there is really only one specific way to understand it accurately.

Just as 2 + 2 will always equal 4, and nothing else. Any other answer, is simply wrong. That is the nature of truth…. you could say it’s narrow. So, too, there’s a specific way to understand those Scriptures.

That being said… the Bible indicates there’d be changes in some living things.

The Bible states that God told Adam, “every seed-bearing plant / every green plant” was given to Adam & the animals, to eat.



Now the question: can we eat every green plant today? I’m sure even back in the author’s day - the person who wrote this was Moses I believe - even back then, there were some green plants which were dangerous to eat!

So what should that tell us? That the Bible indicates that adaptations within living things - evolution, if you will - would occur!

But adapting in manners that are harmful to humans, wasn’t initially Jehovah’s purpose… just as A&E rebelling against His sovereignty, was not part of His purpose, either.

When mutations did happen, they were originally to be for our benefit.

In Genesis 3, the question / issue of whether man is able to govern himself or not, was raised…. Jehovah, for the most part, has stayed out of human affairs, till the issue of sovereignty is settled. Even removing His protection from all earthly life.
All life - plants and animals - have developed on their own, without His guidance. Especially after the Edenic Fall / Rebellion.

The issue of sovereignty is close to being resolved. It’s almost been shown beyond doubt that man is incapable of / unwilling to fix the problems he’s mostly created, so Jehovah will soon step in — “God…will bring to ruin those ruining the Earth.” — Revelation 11:17,18

Earlier in this post, I wrote:
“When mutations did happen, they were originally to be for our benefit.”

Why? Because when God created Adam&Eve, they were perfect. (Hence their long lifespans, even after their rebellion.) He wanted humans to enjoy their lives, forever…we were made to live forever.

And seeing new species of animals & plants naturally arise over time under Jehovah’s guidance, within their families, would be one way He would use to enrich our endless lives…we would never get bored.

To put it simply… IMO, adaptations within family taxa — ?”kinds”? — were for our benefit, so we could always enjoy some new variety throughout our unending life, as Earth’s caretakers.

I’ll be glad to answer any sincere, respectful questions.


Have a good day.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
LET'S TALK ABOUT REAL SCIENCE;

When a creationist says that, I already know only bs is going to follow.

One of the basic reasons why the theory of evolution cannot explain how the cell came into existence is the "irreducible complexity" in it.

There we go.... Only a sentence in and there we have it already. A concept invented by creationist apologists which has only one goal: making their age-old argument from ignorance sound "sciency" in an attempt to impress the scientific illiterate and the gullible.

It's not working. IC in a nutshell: "I don't know how to reduce it, therefor it can't be". Textbook argument from ignorance.


A living cell maintains itself with the harmonious co-operation of many organelles. If only one of these organelles fails to function, the cell cannot remain alive. The cell does not have the chance to wait for unconscious mechanisms like natural selection or mutation to permit it to develop. Thus, the first cell on earth was necessarily a complete cell possessing all the required organelles and functions, and this definitely means that this cell had to have been created.

So moving to the actual functioning components of the cell that make it work. These crucial accidents, as you believe, are absolutely necessary to function in unison with one another within a very short period of time, lest although they may somehow form separately (by your assumed accidental miracles) all other vital parts of the cell need to simultaneously come into existence at the same time, or they will become useless and die!
So much for billions of years happening while each individual part comes to life for no apparent reason, and just waitng around to connect and function together, to then POOF (but remember, no intelligent design involved) a cell has evolved!! Because that is what evolution is correct "Change".


The Protein
WHICH IS ONLY ONE of the building-blocks of a cell. The formation, under natural conditions, of just one single protein out of the thousands of complex protein molecules making up the cell is impossible. Proteins are giant molecules consisting of smaller units called "amino acids" that are arranged in a particular sequence in certain quantities and structures. These units
constitute the building blocks of a living protein. The simplest protein is composed of 50 amino acids, but there are some that contain thousands.

The fact that it is quite impossible for the functional structure of proteins to come about by chance can easily be observed even by simple probability calculations that anybody can understand. For instance, an average-sized protein molecule composed of 288 amino acids, and contains twelve different types of amino acids can be arranged in 10300 different ways. (This is an astronomically huge number, consisting of 1 followed by 300 zeros.) Of all these possible sequences, only one forms the desired protein molecule. The rest of them are amino-acid chains that are either totally useless or else potentially harmful to living things. In other words, the probability of the formation of only one protein molecule is "1 in 10300". The probability of this "1" to occur is practically nil. (In practice, probabilities smaller than 1 over 1050 are thought of as "zero probability").

When we proceed one step further in the evolutionary scheme of life, we observe that one single protein means nothing by itself. One of the smallest bacteria ever discovered, Mycoplasma hominis H39, contains 600 "types" of proteins. In this case, we would have to repeat the probability calculations we have made above for one protein for each of these 600 different types of proteins. The result beggars even the concept of impossibility.

Please tell me the errors ABOVE!, BUT NOT with vague comments, Please state real facts that refute them!
Yes yes, we get it. The cell is complex and your mind is overwhelmed by it. Yes, science is hard work and can get complicated.
I get it, it's much easier to simply not trying to understand it and instead just say "god dun it" and pretend that settles it.


I'm sorry that you are so intellectually lazy that such an non-answer with literally zero evidence or explanatory power is enough for you.
 
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