• Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.

    Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:
    • Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
    • Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
    • Access to private conversations with other members.

    We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!

What convinced you that Evolution is the truth?

It Aint Necessarily So

Veteran Member
Premium Member
What a great privilege to be a Jehovah's Witness!!!
I'm glad you feel that way. That's how I feel about my atheism and humanism.
evolutionists would have us believe that the information within the DNA of a single-celled organism was transformed over time into the information in the DNA in a human.
The scientific community of experts in this area don't really care what the rest of us believe. It's not just the creationists they don't hear. They also don't care that those of us who agree with them do.
Theoretically speaking, any information change of that type would require energy capable of generating that process.
Yes. The energy for evolution comes mostly from the sun, which powers cell growth and replication via a series of reactions beginning with photosynthesis, which ultimately leads to the production of ATP, but some is from other radiation such as cosmic particles impacting DNA.
Taking into account how much information is actually lost
Information isn't lost in a gene pool unless something like a bottleneck or an extinction event reduces the size of a gene pool. Otherwise, whenever an allele is lost to the population, it is because it has been supplanted by an allele that confers a greater competitive advantage
Is it really credible that this process has occurred, or that it did happen automatically?
You've got two possibilities: naturalistically and supernaturalistically. Is it really credible that life arose supernaturally?
How long would something like this take?
That wouldn't be predictable, but science tells us it took between 3 and 4.5 billion years -much longer than six days.
Things cannot be taken for granted by mere speculation. Its real probability must be calculated taking into account the facts.
We have more than mere speculation for the science, but you don't. What's the probability that gods are possible? If possible, what are the odds one or more exist? You can't answer either of those questions. Neither can I nor anybody else.
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
You evolutionists are not as "sophisticated" as you think you are. :)

Observation is a "scientific" research method, and it is very simple to carry out. You are so blinded by your arrogance that you have not had time to observe reality to derive rational conclusions from what you see.

Tell me: what do you see when you look at the flowers in your garden or eat a delicipus fruit? What do you feel when you take a breath of scented air on a mountain, or are calmed by the breeze of the sea waves on a day at the beach?

That you enjoy such a display of beauty and goodness is not coincidental, as you believe. A little realistic observation will take you out of your fantasy... but you are too caught up in that illusion of certain sofisticated idea of "evolutionary science", that you have lost sight of the reality in front of you.
 

Mock Turtle

Oh my, did I say that!
Premium Member
You evolutionists are not as "sophisticated" as you think you are. :)

Observation is a "scientific" research method, and it is very simple to carry out. You are so blinded by your arrogance that you have not had time to observe reality to derive rational conclusions from what you see.

Tell me: what do you see when you look at the flowers in your garden or eat a delicipus fruit? What do you feel when you take a breath of scented air on a mountain, or are calmed by the breeze of the sea waves on a day at the beach?

That you enjoy such a display of beauty and goodness is not coincidental, as you believe. A little realistic observation will take you out of your fantasy... but you are too caught up in that illusion of certain sofisticated idea of "evolutionary science", that you have lost sight of the reality in front of you.
Hardly - religion = arrogance so often, unless you believe every one of them. :rolleyes:
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
Tell me: what do you see when you look at the flowers in your garden

That they make me sneeze due to allergies.

or eat a delicipus fruit?

That it's tasty. Tastier then poisneous fruit.

What do you feel when you take a breath of scented air on a mountain, or are calmed by the breeze of the sea waves on a day at the beach?

It's nice.
Much nicer then the fumes of a volcano.

That you enjoy such a display of beauty and goodness is not coincidental, as you believe.

It certainly isn't coincidental. It's a survival advantage. If I would equally enjoy the fumes of a volcano as I do a breath of scented air, I wouldn't be living very long.
If poisenous fruit would taste as nice as healthy fruit, I wouldn't be living very long either.

That which we consider beautiful and delicious, tends to go hand in hand with that which is good for us.

A little realistic observation will take you out of your fantasy...

Irony.

but you are too caught up in that illusion of certain sofisticated idea of "evolutionary science", that you have lost sight of the reality in front of you.
What reality?
That from a survival perspective it is more advantagous to like healthy fruit over poisonous fruit? That is better to prefer fresh air over volcanic fumes?
 

SkepticThinker

Veteran Member
I don't have any satisfactory answer to my questions, as I said.

Someone replied: "Your questions (...) can't be answered."
Another one said: "We've all responded to your questions".

They don't even agree on that. :facepalm:

The funny thing about it is that "they" use the personal pronoun "WE" every time "they" say something, as if "they" were a cult. If "they" are, "they" seem to be very divided "among themselves". "They" remind me of what Jesus Christ said:

Mark 3:24 Why, if a kingdom becomes divided against itself, that kingdom cannot stand; 25 and if a house becomes divided against itself, that house will not be able to stand. 26 Also, if Satan has risen up against himself and become divided, he cannot stand, but is coming to an end.

What a great privilege to be a Jehovah's Witness!!! We can use the pronoun WE; it is a real identity, not a fake one.
Do you come here just to talk to yourself?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
You evolutionists are not as "sophisticated" as you think you are. :)

Observation is a "scientific" research method, and it is very simple to carry out. You are so blinded by your arrogance that you have not had time to observe reality to derive rational conclusions from what you see.

Tell me: what do you see when you look at the flowers in your garden or eat a delicipus fruit? What do you feel when you take a breath of scented air on a mountain, or are calmed by the breeze of the sea waves on a day at the beach?

That you enjoy such a display of beauty and goodness is not coincidental, as you believe. A little realistic observation will take you out of your fantasy... but you are too caught up in that illusion of certain sofisticated idea of "evolutionary science", that you have lost sight of the reality in front of you.
Observation on its own is not evidence. There has to be point to the observation for it to be evidence.

Let me help you on the very simple idea of scientific evidence. This is the rule that scientist follow whether it is physics, biology, chemistry or geology.

"In the sciences, evidence is understood as what confirms or disconfirms scientific hypotheses."

Scientists do often do just observe quite often and then form a hypothesis after trying to reason out what they saw, But until they form a hypothesis they do not have any evidence, by definition.

A scientific hypothesis is when one tries to explain some part of the real world. It also has to be, and this is an absolute, testable. The scientist must think of at least one way that his idea could be shown to be wrong by the predictions that the hypothesis makes. And no cheating. One the test cannot be one that the scientist already knows the answer to. That would be pretty much cheating. If you are aware of Kent Hovind the ex-con and professional liar for Jesus he has claimed to make hypotheses, but they are already of events that he knows the answer to. They are events that everyone knows the answer to. The idea to the sciences is to answer the unknown, not to rehash the known.

That is why "Look at the trees!" "Look at the flowers!" is not evidence for anything. It only earns a response of "So what/"

Forming a proper hypothesis is the hard part of the sciences. One has to learn enough to make such a hypothesis in the first place and then be bold enough to let the rest of the world to try and refute your idea. Science works so well because bad ideas tend to be refuted rather quickly. Science is the process of getting rid of all of the wrong answers.
 

Astrophile

Active Member
If poisonous fruit would taste as nice as healthy fruit, I wouldn't be living very long either.
According to reports by the few people who have eaten them and survived, death cap mushrooms taste nice. All right, I know that mushrooms aren't fruit, or even plants, but a good taste is not a guarantee that a fungus is safe to eat.
 

TagliatelliMonster

Veteran Member
:facepalm: There is not any science called evolution.
That's one of those nonsense that I often hear around here.

1713250415640.png
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Evolution is no different to any other science, there is always more to learn. Science is not a belief.

The idea that science can be compartmentalized into little boxes of individual sciences has long been shown to be not true, every area of study is interconnected with many others. Usually shown to be linking back to particle physics.
The processes of Evolution are still being studied and are a typical multi discipline branch of science.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
:facepalm: There is not any science called evolution.
That's one of those nonsense that I often hear around here.
There are departments in the top universities defined as the research and study of evolution:


Our Mission​

Evolutionary anthropology is the study of humankind's place in nature. The central questions of this unique discipline revolve around reconstructing how humans arose from our primate ancestors, interrogating the attributes that make us distinct, and investigating how our evolutionary past shapes human diversity, health, and society today.

Our focus on these questions connects us with our colleagues in the other natural and social sciences and in the humanities – with everyone who is working at some level on what it means to be human. To address questions of human nature and human evolution, evolutionary anthropology focuses on morphology, physiology, genetics, ecology, behavior, and cognition of humans and non-human primates, as viewed from an evolutionary perspective. Central areas of research include evolutionary relationships among living and extinct groups of primates, the functional and adaptive significance of trait variation in humans and other primates, and the evolutionary mechanisms that have shaped human evolution.
 

Eli G

Well-Known Member
Dedicating a "special" department in some universities to apes has nothing to do with a demonstration of the evolution of species.

The branches of Anthropology that I have known are linguistic, biological, social and archaeology... nothing about apes but only humans, and that is why it begins with anthropos which in Greek means man or human.

Many university classes or conferences are only theoretical and for student analysis. It does not mean that they have substance or that students have to accept as dogma everything that is said in a lecture... otherwise, as I have already said, it would just be indoctrination.

As much as evolutionists try to bring this theory to real science, they have so far failed, after 140 years. Why would it be? ;)
 

Terrywoodenpic

Oldest Heretic
Dedicating a "special" department in some universities to apes has nothing to do with a demonstration of the evolution of species.

The branches of Anthropology that I have known are linguistic, biological, social and archaeology... nothing about apes but only humans, and that is why it begins with anthropos which in Greek means man or human.

Many university classes or conferences are only theoretical and for student analysis. It does not mean that they have substance or that students have to accept as dogma everything that is said in a lecture... otherwise,
as I have already said, it would just be indoctrination.

As much as evolutionists try to bring this theory to real science, they have so far failed, after 140 years. Why would it be? ;)

The study of evolution has been accepted as a. Legitimate field of scientific study since the concept was first published by Darwin.
There are almost endless numbers of published scientific papers on the subject. It is now firmly established as a primary scientific theory and is established and accepted by the scientific community world wide.

Evolution deniers are recognised as a lost cause by a vast majority of scientists and academics, and regarded as scientifically illiterate. Much in the same way as those believing in the transmutation of base metal into gold and those who believe in magic or alchemy or the paranormal.
 
Of course this question is addressed both to theists and to atheists. Both to those who believe in evolution and those who believe it's untrue.
Explain why you, through your intelligence, reason and mind developped the awareness and the conviction that Evolution is the historical truth.

If you are a theist, please explain the theological implications, as well.

I will underline that we are not talking about Intelligence Design, here: we are talking about Darwinian evolution based upon the Darwinian principles like natural selection, etc..etc...
Thank you for participating- ;)

For a long, long time, I thought that neutrinos didn’t evolve.

But some recent experiments seem to indicate that neutrinos do in fact evolve, since they are not massless, so they proceed thru time, and they change.

At least, that’s what they say on YouTube.

Massless (Muse Neutrino Parody) | A Capella Science​

 

metis

aged ecumenical anthropologist
The branches of Anthropology that I have known are linguistic, biological, social and archaeology... nothing about apes but only humans, and that is why it begins with anthropos which in Greek means man or human.

We are basically "human apes", and as an anthropologist we study ape behavior as part of our education. Desmond Morris hit it square on the head in his "The Naked Ape" book which inspired me to go into this field.

As much as evolutionists try to bring this theory to real science, they have so far failed, after 140 years. Why would it be?

We're not "evolutionists"-- we're "realists". Any religion or denomination that ignores well established science should be considered bogus, which is one main reason I left the church of my youth.
 

wellwisher

Well-Known Member
Honestly, I just expect you to tell me what makes you rely on this theory and why.
That's all. :)
Of course you will have to point out whether you are a theist or an atheist.
I am neither extreme, but prefer rational science, over dice and cards science, that need faith in a mutation lottery in a black box.

When I was young, I liked to garden. I still do, but have less room. I would grow things from seed, usually planting way more seeds than I needed; use six pack cells, to get a head start on the season. Like natural selection, I would pick and choose about 25% of my seedlings and give the rest to neighbors.

I selected based on how vigorous and perfect the seedlings looked at 3-4 weeks. I was applying natural selection by seeking the best for my garden space. I was also thoughtful in terms of the placement of all the different vegetable, so I could optimize my space and as well as all my plants; tall in the back, sun neediest in the best sun, summer crop where the spring crop was, etc.

Humans have a natural common sense, and copy what nature does. I could see how nature works, allowing a very healthy forests with flora and fauna. My mother liked gardening and she would decorate the yard each spring, with new specimen plants and flower beds and I learned from her. I added the vegetable gardens.

When I learned about Darwin and Evolution, in school, I was already a practitioner. The only things that started to bother me, later in school, was the random approach connected to genetics, which I learned as I got older. The random approach seemed subjective and not very objective.

The genetic approach to evolution starts with replicators instead of from scratch. That is cheating. They load the dice of evolution with replicators and apply laws of chance, as though the dice are not already loaded; self fulfilling prophesy. I start with empty water, which is harder, but honest. I still accept Darwin's contribution, in essence, but from a bio-physical chemical approach, water is my main variable, since even DNA will not work without water. Water can still do all types of things without the DNA.

The water and oil effect, where water and oil will separate if blended together, is how water pushes the organics into pockets, getting rid of much of the randomness. The DNA double helix is due to the water and oil effect. If we use other solvents a different DNA shape forms; sloppy double helix, that is not bioactive. Water and oil/organic has the biggest difference in chemistry, allowing water to put the squeeze on the organics in the most powerful way. Newly formed protein in water are folded by the water to minimize the water potential; water and oil effect, and in doing so in space and time, always fold and packs it the same. Water's job is to get minimize the random. It is against my common sense to except random with such a powerful ordering inducing variable; water.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Dedicating a "special" department in some universities to apes has nothing to do with a demonstration of the evolution of species.

The branches of Anthropology that I have known are linguistic, biological, social and archaeology... nothing about apes but only humans, and that is why it begins with anthropos which in Greek means man or human.

Many university classes or conferences are only theoretical and for student analysis. It does not mean that they have substance or that students have to accept as dogma everything that is said in a lecture... otherwise, as I have already said, it would just be indoctrination.

As much as evolutionists try to bring this theory to real science, they have so far failed, after 140 years. Why would it be? ;)
The names of Departments in universities vary, but many include evolution and often the first part. Your negating the fact the evolution does not stand alone specialties such as anthropology, genetics, ecology (evolution is environment driven), Biology. Please note that Evolution is often first place in the name, Why are you asking for one specific name to meet your expectation? They all have Evolution Dukspecialties. There subdivisions are under the Department of Biology.


UNC - Department of Biology Evolution, Ecology & Organismal Biology

Univ, N, Iowa - Department of Biology: Ecology, Evolution and Organismal Biology

UC Davis -Department of Evolution and Ecology

Princeton University - Department of Ecology and Evolutionary Biology

Duke College of Arts and Sciences: Department of Biology Evolutionary Biology

many more . . .

 
Last edited:

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Dedicating a "special" department in some universities to apes has nothing to do with a demonstration of the evolution of species.

The branches of Anthropology that I have known are linguistic, biological, social and archaeology... nothing about apes but only humans, and that is why it begins with anthropos which in Greek means man or human.

Many university classes or conferences are only theoretical and for student analysis. It does not mean that they have substance or that students have to accept as dogma everything that is said in a lecture... otherwise, as I have already said, it would just be indoctrination.

As much as evolutionists try to bring this theory to real science, they have so far failed, after 140 years. Why would it be? ;)
Anthropology is the science of humans and since humans are apes studying both our ape ancestors and our ape relatives are part of the science. I need to remind you that you are an ape. Every genetic trait that the other three great ape populations share you have too. You cannot say that about other groups. For example you are not a dog. There are genetic traits that all dogs share but that you do not have.

Do you think that you can refute this? I can give you group after group of animals and you can see if you are part of that group or not. Please note it does not work with just one animal because you will always be different. So you cannot compare yourself to one dog. But you can compare yourself to wolves, coyotes, foxes and dingoes. The former group, which is large than the dogs group, will still all share genetic traits that you do not have. That means that you are not part of that group.
 

shunyadragon

shunyadragon
Premium Member
Perfect. But I am interested in your stance. Do you consider this theory probable, highly probable or unlikely? And why.
;)
I resist seeing probability as a criteria as to whether evolution is valid science. Probability is more correctly used in statistics to test significant differences in research results.

My view is over 170 years of scientific research and discoveries in geology, paleontology, genetics physics chemistry and other related sciences. have overwhelmingly demonstrated the validity of the sciences of evolution. The information for evolution and abiogenesis is increasing almost exponentially. I subscribe for research papers on abiogenesis. There ao to thirty new papaers published every month.
 
Top