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What countries speak Mandarin?
- Thread starter ronki23
- Start date
Tibet?
There is a philosophy in China behind having a common standard for everything, and they highly value the age of their written language. Spoken Mandarin is originally from the Beijing province, however the writing system behind it is ancient and has been in use through most of China for centuries or longer. Someone who speaks Cantonese or Chzechuan can read something written by a person who speaks Mandarin. Its possible that Chinese texts will be around unchanged long after English has mutated into a completely different language, and so the language is more stable no matter how many people speak English. The Chinese wish to preserve their language while the transient English passes by or stays, whichever.
Taiwan has many similarities to Chinese but sounds different. Spoken Mandarin has 5 tones, but Taiwanese has 13 tones. Taiwanese has been influenced by the original people from the island - some ancient tribes; and so there is some heritage difference and cultural variation between Taiwan and the mainland. More important is the political tension. I think Taiwanese have a lot in common with mainland Chinese, however the political tension between mainland China and the people on island Taiwan is not based on the usual things we think of as political. Somehow their seeming political disagreement is intertwined with their belief in natural harmony. It has transcended politics.
Taiwan has many similarities to Chinese but sounds different. Spoken Mandarin has 5 tones, but Taiwanese has 13 tones. Taiwanese has been influenced by the original people from the island - some ancient tribes; and so there is some heritage difference and cultural variation between Taiwan and the mainland. More important is the political tension. I think Taiwanese have a lot in common with mainland Chinese, however the political tension between mainland China and the people on island Taiwan is not based on the usual things we think of as political. Somehow their seeming political disagreement is intertwined with their belief in natural harmony. It has transcended politics.
Very useful in both the business and defense sector probably hospitalities as well.
China, Taiwan, Singapore. Also by substantial communities in Malaysia.
Spoken Mandarin here probably refers to Putonghua, which has long been the lingua franca of much of Northern China, with formalised forms based on the Beijing dialect forming Standard Chinese, which is actually no longer identical to the way they speak in Beijing. This form of Mandarin is quite different to the dialects of Sichuan in particular (sometimes the number of tones varies), but is the same language. You can get by with Mandarin anywhere in China except for out in the sticks, although the dialect of Yue which is spoken in Hong Kong and its area, known as Cantonese, is still useful in that area, and other Chinese languages such as Wu have many tens of millions of speakers.
I don't know what you mean by Taiwanese as a language here - do you refer to Taiwanese forms of Mandarin/Putonghua, or do you mean Taiwanese Hokkien, a form of Min Nan? Which has 13 tones? Hokkien dialects have between 5 and 7 tones, Mandarin dialects don't stray far from 5 (it's 4 really, but the non-tone can be a tone as well in a way). I'm not aware of any Chinese languages having as many tones as 13 aside from some dialects of Wu (a dialect of which is Shanghainese, for reference).
Taiwanese Hokkien may be influenced by the native languages to some degree, as the Hokkien of Taiwan are very influenced genetically by the natives, but I don't think there's substantial influence on the Mandarin of Taiwan. This is the official language, and is spoken by the vast majority of the population.
Spoken Mandarin here probably refers to Putonghua, which has long been the lingua franca of much of Northern China, with formalised forms based on the Beijing dialect forming Standard Chinese, which is actually no longer identical to the way they speak in Beijing. This form of Mandarin is quite different to the dialects of Sichuan in particular (sometimes the number of tones varies), but is the same language. You can get by with Mandarin anywhere in China except for out in the sticks, although the dialect of Yue which is spoken in Hong Kong and its area, known as Cantonese, is still useful in that area, and other Chinese languages such as Wu have many tens of millions of speakers.
I don't know what you mean by Taiwanese as a language here - do you refer to Taiwanese forms of Mandarin/Putonghua, or do you mean Taiwanese Hokkien, a form of Min Nan? Which has 13 tones? Hokkien dialects have between 5 and 7 tones, Mandarin dialects don't stray far from 5 (it's 4 really, but the non-tone can be a tone as well in a way). I'm not aware of any Chinese languages having as many tones as 13 aside from some dialects of Wu (a dialect of which is Shanghainese, for reference).
Taiwanese Hokkien may be influenced by the native languages to some degree, as the Hokkien of Taiwan are very influenced genetically by the natives, but I don't think there's substantial influence on the Mandarin of Taiwan. This is the official language, and is spoken by the vast majority of the population.
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ronki23
Well-Known Member
Are Hokkien and Cantonese different languages to Mandarin? How many Hong Kongers speak Mandarin as I was surprised that 2 out of 2 people from Hong Kong on my Master's degree could speak fluently to the Mainlanders. But the mainlanders couldn't understand Cantonese songs.
The same applies for Taiwanese- they were speaking to Mainlanders easily. Is Mandarin widely used in these countries? If so by how many percentage wise?
In Singapore and Malaysia what percentage of people speak Mandarin? Because the Chinese in these countries originally came from Mainland so aren't exactly 'natives' of these countries (they are NOW after many generations). In Singapore they speak Tamil and English too and in Malaysia it's Malay language so why do the younger generations of Chinese Singaporeans/ Malaysians feel a need to learn Mandarin?
That's beyond me. I can tell you that Mandarin is the 'Official' language of China, so that's why so many people know it. Cantonese are going to know Canton plus Mandarin, and the same goes for many other areas. They know their local language and the official Mandarin.
English doesn't obviate the utility of Mandarin. English is the current world lingua franca, but, as Mainland China grows as an economic power, that may change. This is reflected in the proliferation of Mandarin language departments here in the US, as young people try to get ahead of the game.
Mandarin may be the coming power language.
Mandarin may be the coming power language.
ronki23
Well-Known Member
But in Hong Kong Cantonese is the official language, not Mandarin. So how is it the Hong Kongers I do know also happen to know Mandarin as Hong Kong is not under Mainland control (yet)?
Is Mandarin widely spoken in Hong Kong? What about English asHong Kong's official language until 1973/74 was English-if most Hong Kongers can't speak it/have strong Chinese accents, why is that so? Is Mandarin more or less spoken than English in Hong Kong?
ronki23
Well-Known Member
But if the Chinese are learning English why is there a need to learn Mandarin? If you look at the #2 growing superpower it's Indian yet nobody is rushing to learn Hindi or think it's important to do so. The excuse is Indians know English but in reality less than 20% of Indians know it
Hokkien and Cantonese are dialects of Chinese languages called Min Nan and Yue, respectively. These are functionally languages but are not recognised as such by the Chinese state.
How many Hong Kongers speak Mandarin? Most will be able to speak it as a second language.
Mandarin is the main language in Taiwan, being used in education and government like in Hong Kong. However, many people will speak Hokkien, or perhaps Hakka or a native language, at home.
They feel a need to learn Mandarin in those countries because its perceived as their national language and you get Mandarin teaching in segregated schooling too.
It depends on how competitive and how able of reaching out for potential commercial partners you are, I suppose.
There are very many Chinese, and I don't expect too many of them to be willing and able to learn any English.
Give it a generation, and all those involved in international commerce and diplomacy to any degree will be English-speaking. The demand for English language teachers in China is massive. And lots of schools teach students English. It may well have a majority being able to speak English by the time I am 50.
Chinese is currently written using Chinese characters, which means even children learning to read in China can't do so completely until they're almost 10.
There is a system called pinyin, which is the Romanised transliteration of Chinese, that is much easier. This is integrated into Chinese text input systems, with the result that many Chinese can read but not write the rarer characters.
This is what holds Chinese languages back, and prevents Mandarin from establishing itself as a major global language. If an official and widespread switch to pinyin is made, that barrier will be removed.
I guess that says a lot about how Brazilians are. We have a bad need for English fluency and it is still rather uncommon here.
Hereonin you must refuse to speak to your friends in anything but English! You'll singlehandedly turn the tide.
Do you think I have not been trying?
Some 20 years or so ago it was fairly common for Brazilians to feel an odd sort of "pride" in "refusing" to learn any English.
Of course, that only meant that we had that much harder a time being competitive in other markets and in attaining badly needed technical education.
Perhaps for those reasons, that discourse is not quite so strong anymore.
Kial ni ne ĉiuj Ĝuste lerni Esperanton? (Why don't we all just learn Esperanto?)
Languages are anthropological and cultural treasures. They must be preserved.
That would certainly facilitate the spread of Mandarin, but at the expense of the universal understanding of written, traditional Chinese.
ronki23
Well-Known Member
What do you mean by 'dialect' because from what I know, Cantonese is completely different to Mandarin and Mandarin speakers don't understand the songs. I always thought a 'dialect' means accents and certain words but are still mutually intelligible. Apparently Japan has 16 dialects.
Is Hokkein a completely different language or a dialect? Originally I thought in China they only speak Mandarin and Cantonese. I didn't know about Uiyghur or Tibet having their own languages or these other languages.
What % of Chinese, Hong Kongers, Taiwanese, Singaporeans, Malaysians speak Mandarin? Why do the third and fourth generation Chinese Singaporeans and Malaysians feel the need to learn it when English and Malay are the national languages?