What defines an organized religion?

[Unveiled Artist]

I like your take here, Carlita. Makes one wonder, were there other stories missing, that filled in the gaps you speak of?
I think there isn't much to go on, but Jesus seemed to be instructing His followers not to make religion an idol. I suppose anything can become one.

Yeah. Thank you. The last sentence. He was saying that the Jews were making their practices and idol and disregarding His Father and the message sent from His Father, through Jesus. As for missing stories, I'd have to find my Bible somewhere collecting dust. If you mean historical wise, that's just my personal interpretation or what I understood when I practiced.

 

[arthra]

In your faith, how does your community worship? How do you all come together in faith and like-minds to worship or give reverence to the Creator or what you believe?

Baha'is live in various communities and normally hold what is called a "Feast" every nineteen days... Each Feast is named after an attribute of God.. So there are nineteen days in every month of our calendar and nineteen months in a Baha'i year. Each Feast has three portions... A devotional portion in which prayers are recited revealed by Baha'u'llah the Bab and Abdul-Baha or from some of the Sacred Books of past dispensations..There is a business or administrative portion in which there are concise reports of the business of the community and finally a third portion which is fellowship and refreshments.

"As to the Nineteen Day Feast, it rejoiceth mind and heart. If this feast be held in the proper fashion, the friends will, once in nineteen days, find themselves spiritually restored, and endued with a power that is not of this world"

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 91

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Baha'is live in various communities and normally hold what is called a "Feast" every nineteen days... Each Feast is named after an attribute of God.. So there are nineteen days in every month of our calendar and nineteen months in a Baha'i year. Each Feast has three portions... A devotional portion in which prayers are recited revealed by Baha'u'llah the Bab and Abdul-Baha or from some of the Sacred Books of past dispensations..There is a business or administrative portion in which there are concise reports of the business of the community and finally a third portion which is fellowship and refreshments.

"As to the Nineteen Day Feast, it rejoiceth mind and heart. If this feast be held in the proper fashion, the friends will, once in nineteen days, find themselves spiritually restored, and endued with a power that is not of this world"

~ Abdu'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p. 91

Maybe Dogma, ceremonies and sacraments could be rephrased to beliefs/tenants/practices, communion (activities, festivals, fellowship), and religious rites of passage, words from prophets, and holy books among other sacraments.

Those three words are buzz words. I see all three in your faith from how you describe it. I dont understand how it would not be.

 

[Sees]

Actually Jesus never told anyone to join a religion, just like the Buddha, all these organization came later, and quite frankly, stuffed it all up.

I think that's a popular concept, especially in Western countries. The accepted stories of his life have Buddha spending over 40 years preaching to gain followers, instructing them, setting up specific rules, guidelines, structuring, etc. Buddhism would qualify as much or more so organized as anything else.

Founders and key historical figures are the easiest way to identify organized religion.

 

[psychoslice]

I think that's a popular concept, especially in Western countries. The accepted stories of his life have Buddha spending over 40 years preaching to gain followers, instructing them, setting up specific rules, guidelines, structuring, etc. Buddhism would qualify as much or more so organized as anything else.

Founders and key historical figures are the easiest way to identify organized religion.

 

[psychoslice]

I think that's a popular concept, especially in Western countries. The accepted stories of his life have Buddha spending over 40 years preaching to gain followers, instructing them, setting up specific rules, guidelines, structuring, etc. Buddhism would qualify as much or more so organized as anything else.

Founders and key historical figures are the easiest way to identify organized religion.

But I don't feel that the Buddha ever wanted his teachings to be organized, the same with Jesus' teachings, what happen after their death has nothing to do with either of their true teachings. True religion is only found within, and no where else.

 

[Sees]

But I don't feel that the Buddha ever wanted his teachings to be organized, the same with Jesus' teachings, what happen after their death has nothing to do with either of their true teachings. True religion is only found within, and no where else.

People are pretty good at looking around and getting a decent grasp of stuff but not so good at looking within with clarity and integrity. You get these questions people might look to a guide for:

How exactly do you look within? What are you looking for specifically? What is inside that is not "out there"?

It may be the reason for the teachings, a community to preserve and disseminate the teachings...structure, rules, guidelines that help them keep at it and persevere without going too far off course when exploring.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

What defines organized religion?

I'm not entirely sure, but I'm guessing that it has something to do with how ornate the restroom fixtures are.

A Cult.

An Organized Religion.

"For where two or three gather in my name, there am I with them." ~ Matthew 18:20

 

[arthra]

Maybe Dogma, ceremonies and sacraments could be rephrased to beliefs/tenants/practices, communion (activities, festivals, fellowship), and religious rites of passage, words from prophets, and holy books among other sacraments.

Those three words are buzz words. I see all three in your faith from how you describe it. I dont understand how it would not be.

You used the term "buzz words" Carlita... One definition for the term "buzz words" is

"...an important-sounding usually technical word or phrase often of little meaning used chiefly to impress laymen.."

I don't see them at all as applied to my Faith.

Our Father will not hold us responsible for the rejection of dogmas which we are unable either to believe or comprehend, for He is ever infinitely just to His children.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 27)

Many religious leaders have grown to think that the importance of religion lies mainly in the adherence to a collection of certain dogmas and the practice of rites and ceremonies! Those whose souls they profess to cure are taught to believe likewise, and these cling tenaciously to the outward forms, confusing them with the inward truth.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 144)

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You used the term "buzz words" Carlita... One definition for the term "buzz words" is

"...an important-sounding usually technical word or phrase often of little meaning used chiefly to impress laymen.."

I don't see them at all as applied to my Faith.

Our Father will not hold us responsible for the rejection of dogmas which we are unable either to believe or comprehend, for He is ever infinitely just to His children.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 27)

Many religious leaders have grown to think that the importance of religion lies mainly in the adherence to a collection of certain dogmas and the practice of rites and ceremonies! Those whose souls they profess to cure are taught to believe likewise, and these cling tenaciously to the outward forms, confusing them with the inward truth.

(Abdu'l-Baha, Paris Talks, p. 144)

Really? I just want simple understandings to the questions in these threads we talked about not a debate over the meaning of words. I don't care for debates. When I generally do not understand something that I have not experience or perspective that is different than mine, I will ask in different ways and so that it is in a language that I understand even if we disagree.

1. You have a religion with a Dogma: The Words from Bahá'u'lláh, the tenants of your faith, and so forth outline the practices of your belief.

If you have no tenants/beliefs/Dogma, what exactly is your faith based on? How do you practice? Why?

2. You have ceremonies. You just explained that in another word (festival) with the last post you quoted.

u'l-Baha, Selections from the Writings of Abdu'l-Baha, p.91 (Post 22)

3. You have ways of how to worship (I'll say that since rules seems to get people) in how you practice.

If not, than how do you practice your faith? These are not requirements; they are not strict. They are not ridget. They are practices. Some are cultural some not. Depends on the person and the community for which they practice with.

Translation:

I am saying your faith has:

Beliefs/tenants/Holy Book
Celebrations, festivals, and fellowship with like minds
Traditional and cultural means of carrying out practices of your faith.

I am not implying anything more than that.

This is how I define (and my OP) organize religion.

Note:

1. Organized religion does not require you to do anything. That is people

2. Organzied religion is "organized" in a manner that it's followers have particular cultural norms and beliefs to which they worship.

A lot of religious follower on't call their religion and religion. It's a part of their lives. The cultural practices, the communial and festival worship, the adherence to cultural norms and expectations of the community are not seen as a barriers (as so mentione in the last thread before it was cut short). This is all, according to America, Organized religion. I call it life.

3. It is a community worship (it can be individualized..though many don't define it as such)

There is a video I posted if you watch it, it talks about the biases we about people. We also have bias and "assumptions" of what people mean without asking for clarification especially online.

If I do not understand something, I honestly do not understand. I will ask until I do understand or that person says I wish not to discuss this anymore. I do not like debates. I do not like cut off conversations.

-
Also, in contextual English not strict and formal English, "buzz words", in how I placed it in the sentence means words people tend to be fussy or ansy about. Some words are: God, Church, Organized religion, Republican, Democrat, Politics, traditions (for some), Muslim, Allah, rites, witchcraft, and many others people have silly misconceptions of hence makes them buzzed.

If English is not your native language, than I apologize for the bluntness. I just like answers I can understand even if both parties disagree.

I just rather disagree with something I understand than be ignorant to what I do not.

Again, I do not like debates. I do not like cut off conversations.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

But I don't feel that the Buddha ever wanted his teachings to be organized, the same with Jesus' teachings, what happen after their death has nothing to do with either of their true teachings. True religion is only found within, and no where else.

Actually, he did. He had specific ways monks should act and worship. He also had different ways lay men (and finally women) should address monks and other levels of authority. He accepted alms and bowing of respect cultural expected from others who gave him high respect.

I mean, for me personally, I don't understand why organized religion is wrong. It helps with worshiping with people like oneself, fellowship, and it gives ways to honor and respect who or what one worships. It's very peaceful. That's my experience.

Eh.

 

[arthra]

Carlita..

Let's start over on this if you wish... I have no problem with organized religions... My Faith is organized.

We have no priests... and no rituals or sacraments as Christians have. We do not have a creedal confession or dogma that is regularly recited.

I was pleased to answer your question regarding our community gatherings above. If you have more questions do feel free to ask!

 

[psychoslice]

People are pretty good at looking around and getting a decent grasp of stuff but not so good at looking within with clarity and integrity. You get these questions people might look to a guide for:

How exactly do you look within? What are you looking for specifically? What is inside that is not "out there"?

It may be the reason for the teachings, a community to preserve and disseminate the teachings...structure, rules, guidelines that help them keep at it and persevere without going too far off course when exploring.

Looking within is to drop the mind that has made its mind up to whatever concept it believes in, when we drop the mind we are alone with our Self. When we are without the mind such as in meditation, and because the mind isn't there we can see beyond the mind, just like when there is clouds blocking the sun, when we see past the clouds we then see the sun. Its when we are in this blissfulness that we can truly grasp the truth, the truth isn't contaminated by the mind, as all scriptures are, or anything that is formed from concepts. Its in this peaceful state that the answers come, and from these answers we build our own religion, this religion will be beyond any organised religion, but as soon as we try to organize our inner truth, it then becomes poison, just like all organized religions.

 

[psychoslice]

Actually, he did. He had specific ways monks should act and worship. He also had different ways lay men (and finally women) should address monks and other levels of authority. He accepted alms and bowing of respect cultural expected from others who gave him high respect.

I mean, for me personally, I don't understand why organized religion is wrong. It helps with worshiping with people like oneself, fellowship, and it gives ways to honor and respect who or what one worships. It's very peaceful. That's my experience.

Eh.

Organised religion can be a good stepping stone, but to stay there is to stagnate, we have to move on from there and enter our inner being, to mature spiritually, and let childish things go.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Organised religion can be a good stepping stone, but to stay there is to stagnate, we have to move on from there and enter our inner being, to mature spiritually, and let childish things go.

Religion is supposed to let people enter their own well inner well being to mature spiritually. Politics makes organized religion seem inpersonal. I wouldnt says stagnate. Some peolle grow in community fellowship others in isolated fellowship. Guess personal preference.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Carlita..

Let's start over on this if you wish... I have no problem with organized religions... My Faith is organized.

We have no priests... and no rituals or sacraments as Christians have. We do not have a creedal confession or dogma that is regularly recited.

I was pleased to answer your question regarding our community gatherings above. If you have more questions do feel free to ask!

Thank you. I think thats what most do when they think of organized religion: Catholicism. I love the Catholic Church and I honestly, really, dont understand how the Church practices, sacraments, etc is viewed so negative. Like other faiths dont want to have any association with them and descriptive words that are somehow supposed to be related to the church.

Anyway. All my questions to you from the former thread and this is honest. RF citizens have a lot of "exceptions" to questions possed. Kind of gets fustrating.

-

I remember reading about Bahai long ago. Is it similar to Muslim? Could you compare it to a common world faith?

 

[arthra]

I remember reading about Bahai long ago. Is it similar to Muslim? Could you compare it to a common world faith?

Thanks for your question Carlita!

Baha'i Faith you could say grew out of Shiah Islam in Iran and Iraq...in a somewhat similar way to Christianity emerging from Judaism. Baha'is accept the Qur'an as a Holy Scripture and Muhammad as a Messenger of God... We believe that Siyyid Ali Muhammad the Bab was the Promised One of Islam ..the Mehdi and fulfilled the prophecies. The Bab revealed new commentaries on the Qur'an and brought a new calendar and new ordinances.. Following the Bab was Baha'u'llah Who was also Promised by the Bab again revealed additional Writings and new ordinances that we follow...

You can review some of the Baha'i Writings at

http://www.religiousforums.com/threads/bahai-writings.177422/

and news about the Faith on this RF site at

http://www.religiousforums.com/forums/bahai-faith-dir.25/

 

[psychoslice]

Religion is supposed to let people enter their own well inner well being to mature spiritually. Politics makes organized religion seem inpersonal. I wouldnt says stagnate. Some peolle grow in community fellowship others in isolated fellowship. Guess personal preference.

I think when most people in their church who think for themselves are told not to, because its the devil trying to take you away from what they teach, this is what I found when I was a Christian. It wasn't until I did think for myself self that I realize that organised religion wasn't for me. The religion keep me like a bonsai, or like a stunted plant that looked beautiful from the outside, but within it was crying out to grow and become what it truly is.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think when most people in their church who think for themselves are told not to, because its the devil trying to take you away from what they teach, this is what I found when I was a Christian. It wasn't until I did think for myself self that I realize that organised religion wasn't for me. The religion keep me like a bonsai, or like a stunted plant that looked beautiful from the outside, but within it was crying out to grow and become what it truly is.

Wow. If a religion stunds your growth, its not a healthy religion. I know christianity never did that to me. It savved my life. I just had to accept that even though the priests, people, and faith where beautiful, that doesnt mean its right. My departing was more because I felt it wrong to continue in fellowship when I didnt believe.

The priest actually asked me to wait before joining the Church.

It could be the environment. In NY, the priest in confession told me the devil made me do it. Further up north, a priest yelled at me. Locally, one priest spent two hours or so in confession with me. He never evangalized God. Huged me after. Even gave me a ride home. (I know. Sounds iffy. I was careful).

It could be the people. Too much gold. Long Masses on Holidays. But religion goes beyond that. It touches the soul.

 

[psychoslice]

Wow. If a religion stunds your growth, its not a healthy religion. I know christianity never did that to me. It savved my life. I just had to accept that even though the priests, people, and faith where beautiful, that doesnt mean its right. My departing was more because I felt it wrong to continue in fellowship when I didnt believe.

The priest actually asked me to wait before joining the Church.

It could be the environment. In NY, the priest in confession told me the devil made me do it. Further up north, a priest yelled at me. Locally, one priest spent two hours or so in confession with me. He never evangalized God. Huged me after. Even gave me a ride home. (I know. Sounds iffy. I was careful).

It could be the people. Too much gold. Long Masses on Holidays. But religion goes beyond that. It touches the soul.

Yes true religion goes beyond that, and true religion is found within, anywhere else, then its nothing more than hearsay, second hand knowledge borrowed from some old book that has had its time.