What Did Jesus Actually Do?

[wizanda]

From a historical standpoint, what, in his own lifetime, did Jesus of Nazareth achieve?

• Yeshua divorced Israel for them paying 30 pieces of silver (Zechariah 11).
• Which established the Curse of Moses (Deuteronomy 28), being the Diaspora, 2nd temple Destruction.
• This taught the gentiles that Salvation (Yeshua) comes from God (Isaiah 52:10-15 - Isaiah 53).
• By his Testimony in the Synoptic Gospels Vs John, Paul, and Simon (Isaiah 8), it established a Bed of Adultery to Catch & Snare the hypocrites (Isaiah 28:9-21).

It is one of the darkest deeds in history, and most people read it looking for free gifts, whilst missing the contexts of what is taking place.

In my opinion.

 

[Audie]

What Jesus 'actually did' was deliver the revelation .

Uh, that is like, just an opinion. Not really the same as
a revelation.

 

[PureX]

First, this could be said about pretty much anyone in his shoes so it's almost irrelevant and second, it could be taken to mean he did nothing but followers did everything. I am asking, from the perspective of a historical Jesus, what did he himself do that is worth remembering?

The "historical Jesus" is unknown to us. But clearly, SOMEONE at that time and in that region did and said SOMETHING that awakened the humans that heard it, and heard of it, to this new spiritual salvation ideology. The odds are quite good that there was a living, breathing human at the center of this 'meme', acting as it's source and impetus. And whatever that man did in his time and place, it was enough to ignite an ideological 'movement', ... that is still with us to this day, 2000 years later.

 

[Rival]

The "historical Jesus" is unknown to us. But clearly, SOMEONE at that time and in that region did and said SOMETHING that awakened the humans that heard it, and heard of it, to this new spiritual salvation ideology. The odds are quite good that there was a living, breathing human at the center of this 'meme', acting as it's source and impetus. And whatever that man did in his time and place, it was enough to ignite an ideological 'movement', ... that is still with us to this day, 2000 years later.

'There was a man at some point who did something' is kind of a cop out tho...

 

[sun rise]

What did he do objectively?

I can find this in Judaism though, which came before Christianity

Jesus, the Avatar, the Christ, does nothing brand new. He brings a renewal and refocusing of what has existed in the past providing a spiritual push toward further growth.

So we find that the NT contains the same basic message as Judaism but without the "coat" of Jewish ceremonies and rituals.

Thus, for example, he underlined and emphasized these two as "greatest":

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deuteronomy 6:4-5

T hou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.
Leviticus 19:18 King James Version (KJV)

 

[Rival]

So we find that the NT contains the same basic message as Judaism but without the "coat" of Jewish ceremonies and rituals.

I would seriously contest this, but this is not the debate here.

 

[Epic Beard Man]

He healed the sick, raised the dead, and defeated Satan at Calvary.

But this isn't historically verifiable. Not saying that Jesus didn't, it's just that when we want to see the accomplishments of an individual we see through the historical works. The only thing that I see what Jesus did (historically) was that he became a catalyst for a minority community among the Jewish population. Which in turned influenced the zeitgeist of collective situations where Christianity arose from the ashes of its suffering to being the primary faith of empires starting with Rome.

 

[PureX]

'There was a man at some point who did something' is kind of a cop out tho...

To ignore the significance of the ideal, to focus on one person long dead is the "cop out". What's more important to you, who Leonardo da Vinci "actually was", or his painting of the Mona Lisa? And which is the more important to humanity? Are you going to dismiss and denigrate his paintings if you find out that he was a homosexual? Should the rest of us?

The man and the legacy he left us are one and the same, now. And I think it's a "cop out" to try and ignore or to try and denigrate the legacy he left us because you don't like, or agree with, of even know of, the man in his time.

Jesus IS his legacy to us, now. There is no "actual Jesus" apart from that amazing legacy, and how it "actually" effects us, in the present time, in or own lives.

 

[Rival]

To ignore the significance of the ideal, to focus on one person long dead is the "cop out". What's more important to you, who Leonardo da Vinci "actually was", or his painting of the Mona Lisa? And which is the more important to humanity? Are you going to dismiss and denigrate his paintings if you find out that he was a homosexual? Should the rest of us?

The man and the legacy he left us are one and the same, now. And I think it's a "cop out" to try and ignore or to try and denigrate the legacy he left us because you don't like, or agree with, of even know of, the man in his time.

I'm not saying this in the larger context, but in the context of my original question it is useless.

'It's not the man it's the idea.'

I'm asking what the man did.

 

[Nakosis]

It certainly didn't help. Many myths about Jews and especially Pharisees seem to have arisen from these writings.

The overarching Jewish attitude toward the poor is best summed up by a single word of the biblical text: achikha (your brother). With this word, the Torah insists on the dignity of the poor, and it commands us to resist any temptation to view the poor as somehow different from ourselves.
Jewish Attitudes Toward Poverty | My Jewish Learning

I saw it more as an explanation for the popularity of Christianity than being against the Jewish community. I suppose I still don't fathom the popularity of Christianity to the point they made it the state religion of Rome.

What was the appeal of Christianity? Folks must have saw something in it they didn't find in other beliefs at the time.

 

[Rival]

The overarching Jewish attitude toward the poor is best summed up by a single word of the biblical text: achikha (your brother). With this word, the Torah insists on the dignity of the poor, and it commands us to resist any temptation to view the poor as somehow different from ourselves.
Jewish Attitudes Toward Poverty | My Jewish Learning

I saw it more as an explanation for the popularity of Christianity than being against the Jewish community. I suppose I still don't fathom the popularity of Christianity to the point they made it the state religion of Rome.

What was the appeal of Christianity? Folks must have saw something in it they didn't find in other beliefs at the time.

Mostly Pagan people converted because it contained a message that 'all are one in Christ Jesus', which was very unfamiliar to a Pagan world which pretty much worked on the system of inequality. It meant a new kind of spiritual freedom also.

 

[PureX]

Jesus, the Avatar, the Christ, does nothing brand new. He brings a renewal and refocusing of what has existed in the past providing a spiritual push toward further growth.

So we find that the NT contains the same basic message as Judaism but without the "coat" of Jewish ceremonies and rituals.

Thus, for example, he underlined and emphasized these two as "greatest":

Hear, O Israel: The LORD our God is one LORD: And thou shalt love the LORD thy God with all thine heart, and with all thy soul, and with all thy might. Deuteronomy 6:4-5

T hou shalt not avenge, nor bear any grudge against the children of thy people, but thou shalt love thy neighbour as thyself: I am the Lord.
Leviticus 19:18 King James Version (KJV)

Sorry, but I think that's complete BS. The message of Jesus completely transcends Judaism, and even threatened it's foundations so fully that they killed him for it. And to this day the Jews do no accept the message of Jesus: that the spirit of God exists in all of us, and that if we will allow that spirit within us to guide us, and rule us in the conduct of our lives, it will heal us and save us from ourselves, and help us to heal and save others. This is NOT, and never has been a tenet of Judaism.

 

[PureX]

I'm asking what the man did.

Why? Who cares what someone long dead, did, except for the legacy those actions leave to us, here and now?

 

[Rival]

Why? Who cares what someone long dead, did, except for the legacy those actions leave to us, here and now?

Because I'm asking in a wider context of why non-believers should see him as anything other than a historic error who become famous.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Sorry, but I think that's complete BS. The message of Jesus completely transcends Judaism, and even threatened it's foundations so fully that they killed him for it. And to this day the Jews do no accept the message of Jesus: that the spirit of God exists in all of us, and that if we will allow that spirit within us to guide us, and rule us in the conduct of our lives, it will heal us and save us from ourselves, and help us to heal and save others. This is NOT, and never has been a tenet of Judaism.

Jesus was a practicing Jew and even made racist remarks against Gentiles. Nothing he taught was outside Judaism. It was the Romans who killed him, not the Jews. He was crucified for sedition against the Empire. The Jews had no authority to crucify people. The Gospels were written decades after the fact, after the Christians were kicked out of the Temple and the split already happened, and contain polematics to make the Jews look like demons who oppressed the fledgling Christian movement (John especially).

 

[PureX]

Because I'm asking in a wider context of why non-believers should see him as anything other than a historic error who become famous.

Why do you see him as a "historic error"? We have no definitive history of him at all, to get wrong. And what does fame have to do with anything? The reason he matters to anyone at all is because he has become the icon and messenger of an ideal that has become very important to a lot of people. IT'S THE IDEAL THAT MATERS, isn't it? It's the "Pieta", and "David" that inspires and enlightens us, not Michelangelo the man.

 

[Nakosis]

Off topic but for anyone interested, different views on the Great Appeal of Christianity.
Why Did Christianity Succeed? - The Great Appeal | From Jesus To Christ | FRONTLINE | PBS

 

[PureX]

Jesus was a practicing Jew and even made racist remarks against Gentiles. Nothing he taught was outside Judaism. It was the Romans who killed him, not the Jews. He was crucified for sedition against the Empire. The Jews had no authority to crucify people. The Gospels were written decades after the fact, after the Christians were kicked out of the Temple and the split already happened, and contain polematics to make the Jews look like demons who oppressed the fledgling Christian movement (John especially).

"God within us" completely transcended Judaism. It was a whole new theological perspective. It wasn't inside or outside Judaism, because it wasn't anywhere until Jesus introduced it to humanity. But once he did introduce it, the Jews rejected it. And they killed him for introducing it. They saw it as blasphemy. "Men are not gods!" "Men are not sons of gods!" "Men do not possess divine authority!" "To claim otherwise is blasphemy, and deserving of death!" This was the cry of the Jews in the face of the revelation of Christ.

 

[Rival]

"God within us" completely transcended Judaism. It was a whole new theological perspective. It wasn't inside or outside Judaism, because it wasn't anywhere until Jesus introduced it to humanity. But once he did introduce it, the Jews rejected it. And they killed him for introducing it. They saw it as blasphemy. "Men are not gods!" "Men are not sons of gods!" "Men do not possess divine authority!" "To claim otherwise is blasphemy, and deserving of death!" This was the cry of the Jews in the face of the revelation of Christ.

This is anti-Jewsh nonsense.

Also it's off-topic.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

"God within us" completely transcended Judaism. It was a whole new theological perspective. It wasn't inside or outside Judaism, because it wasn't anywhere until Jesus introduced it to humanity. But once he did introduce it, the Jews rejected it. And they killed him for introducing it. They saw it as blasphemy. "Men are not gods!" "Men are not sons of gods!" "Men do not possess divine authority!" "To claim otherwise is blasphemy, and deserving of death!" This was the cry of the Jews in the face of the revelation of Christ.

Provide evidence that "God within us" does not exist in Judaism or other religions. Provide evidence that Jesus was anything other than a practicing Jew. What you're saying goes against what is known. I already told you that the stuff about the Pharisees oppressing Jesus and the Christians isn't historical. It was written decades after the fact for political reasons and has been the cause of murderous anti-Semitism since.