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What Distinguishes “Centrist” and “Progressive” Democrats?

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
What laws are you referring to as "'compromises' with big business"?
all of them!!
You can't even give us a clue as to what you are referring to as "'compromises" with big business" that "progressives" oppose and want to eliminate?

Don't you think it's a problem to just imagine that kind of stuff, not really having any clear idea about what it is "progressives" supposedly want to change?
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
Ok, however the benefit of capitalism which seems lacking in socialism is the ability of the individual to set their own value.

In capitalism it's supply and demand. The supplier and the consumer determine the value.

Socialism you have the government determining value for you. Giving individuals a lot less control over value. You have to hope to be able to vote in enough folks that see value the same as you otherwise you're out of luck.

like many people on the right, a fundamental misunderstanding of what modern socialism is
 

Lyndon

"Peace is the answer" quote: GOD, 2014
Premium Member
What laws are you referring to as "'compromises' with big business"?

Thousands of laws that have valued the interest of big business over the interests of the workers, progressives want to return the democratic party to being the party of the workers, not the big business interests and wall street, like the Clinton democrats
 

sun rise

The world is on fire
Premium Member
Personally the difference is between "don't rock the boat" Democrats and "We need change" Democrats. "Don't rock the boat" Democrats want to tweak the system which is considered to be not bad (at the end of President Obama's term in office). "We need change" Democrats see the structure of society as an issue with the power that great wealth brings causing misery for many for the benefit of the few.

If you look back a couple of years to the actual policy positions of Hillary and Bernie, most of them are the same in domestic affairs. This tends to support my contention that the difference is more philosophical.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
There may be a degree of truth in what you say here, but I have difficulty believing that Democrats generally split on such ideological grounds. I hope you are not correct. If you are right, the country and the world is in really big trouble.

I'm assuming there's pro capitalist democrats and pro socialist democrats. Basically Clinton versus Sanders. I suspect there's folks on the left who don't want to rock the capitalist boat too much.

The progressives would have supported Sanders. It's been suggested that Clinton used her political clout with the DNC to tilt the nomination in her favor.

A lot of folks seem to feel Sanders could have united the party against Trump.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I'm assuming there's pro capitalist democrats and pro socialist democrats. Basically Clinton versus Sanders. I suspect there's folks on the left who don't want to rock the capitalist boat too much.

The progressives would have supported Sanders. It's been suggested that Clinton used her political clout with the DNC to tilt the nomination in her favor.
The thing is that during the primaries, Clinton and Sanders seemed to just not have any major disagreements on any issues.

A lot of folks seem to feel Sanders could have united the party against Trump.
It seems to me a very odd idea that "Sanders could have united the party against Trump" when Clinton was unable to do so at least enough to win the electoral college, and Clinton got several million more votes than Sanders did in the primaries.
 

Nakosis

Non-Binary Physicalist
Premium Member
The thing is that during the primaries, Clinton and Sanders seemed to just not have any major disagreements on any issues.

It seems to me a very odd idea that "Sanders could have united the party against Trump" when Clinton was unable to do so at least enough to win the electoral college, and Clinton got several million more votes than Sanders did in the primaries.

I suspect more Liberals would have voted for Sanders than Progressives who voted for Hilary.

The Progressives have more disagreement with the Liberals than the Liberals with the Progressives.

Perhaps portraying Trump as alt-right was a mistake. It got the alt-right to come out in strong support along with other conservative groups.
 

Nous

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
I suspect more Liberals would have voted for Sanders than Progressives who voted for Hilary.
But during the primaries, several million more people voted for Clinton than for Sanders.

The Progressives have more disagreement with the Liberals than the Liberals with the Progressives.
The "progressives" here should address this.

Perhaps portraying Trump as alt-right was a mistake.
But Trump is certainly demonstrating that "alt-right" is a correct label for him.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
It is true the majority of democrats are centrists and not liberals. The opposite is true of the republican party.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
An article at The Hill, apparently inspired by a New York Times article, begins:

Moderate Democrats are pushing back at Sen. Elizabeth Warren’s (D-Mass.) view that progressives have taken control of the party.

“We can't win the House back with progressives running in swing states,” said former Rep. Ellen Tauscher (D-Calif.), a surrogate for 2016 Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton who is leading the Fight Back California super PAC aimed at winning back seven House seats in the Golden State.

Interviews with Democratic strategists, donors and organizers from across the country reveal deep disagreement with Warren’s premise that progressives make up the “heart and soul” of the Democratic Party.

Warren offered that synopsis during a speech at the liberal Netroots Nation conference last weekend, adding that progressives are in control of the party.

The Democrats who disagree with Warren are generally from the center of the party, and many were staunch supporters of former President Barack Obama and Clinton.

The clash is further proof of the divide in the party after 2016’s disappointment. Even as they face a Republican Party torn over how to deal with President Trump, Democrats are still trying to figure out what kind of a party they are.​

Centrist Dems push back on Warren

The article never identifies much of anything that actually distinguishes “centrist” or “moderate” Democrats from the “progressive” variety. It names “a single-payer healthcare system” as one one of “the many progressive issues”. But among the people I know who identify as Democrats (and some of whom might be considered “centrist” or “moderate” Democrats), I know of none who are against a single-payer system. Nevertheless, one cannot pull a single-payer health care system out of one's hat--one must write the statutes that will implement such a system, and one must convince a whole segment of the population that it is a good and necessary system. I am for a single-payer system primarily because I think it will probably be less expensive than the ACA. But I also think it might be wise to not eliminate the whole health insurance industry that employs people and pays taxes. Perhaps the single-payer plan could allow for a degree of incentive for people who can afford insurance to buy it. I don't think Americans need any easier access to prescription drugs at the moment (especially opioids). As things are now, Americans are making themselves fat and sick and dead with prescription drugs.

The article also states:

The Obama and Clinton supporters say they have grown tired of having to deal with fighting over progressivism and 1990s-era battles over former President Bill Clinton’s work on welfare and criminal justice reform, which were campaign issues last year and subjects of criticism by Warren just last week.​

I don't know what is being referred to here as “progressivism,” but I would definitely support changes to some of the the 1990s-era welfare and “criminal justice” legislation.

So what else distinguishes “centrist” and “progressive” Democrats? The issues identified here do not seem worthy of splitting the party.

Perhaps rather than empty adjectives such as “progressive” and “centrist,” there should just be one party of “Democrats”.


Warren wants to reign in the power of banks and corporations. Clinton seems more in line with Republican ideology on these issues.

That alone is a massive issue that drives everything else. Healthcare of the kind we need cannot happen without pissing off corporate power structures. Dealing with the student loan problem cannot be dealt with properly without reigning in the banks. Almost every major issue has similar ties to the corporate power structures affected by them.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
Exactly what "powers" of banks and corporations do progressives want to eliminate or change?

Campaign contribution limits, more regulations of banks, government health care... these things would all directly or indirectly limit corporations power and sometimes profits.
 

Underhill

Well-Known Member
So progressives want to eliminate campaign contribution limits? Are you sure about that?

I meant exactly the opposite.

Exactly what regulations of banks do progressives want? One can't legislative non-specific "regulations".

Look up Elizabeth Warrens agenda for examples. I am not going to lay them out line by line.
 
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