Underhill
Well-Known Member
Exactly what laws about "campaign contributions" by corporations do progressives want to enact?
Can you name one?
Is this a test?
She wants to do more to separate commercial banking from investment banking...
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Exactly what laws about "campaign contributions" by corporations do progressives want to enact?
Can you name one?
I'm just trying to discern what it is exactly that supposedly distinguishes "progressive" from "centrist" Democrats. It seems that most people on this thread did not seem to think that there is any important distinction by which to identify two groups of Democrats.Is this a test?
That's easily done. What will it accomplish?She wants to do more to separate commercial banking from investment banking...
Because I am pretty pessimistic of a large part of our society I am sure even the gender difference would have been enough. We apparently were still not ready. Sanders was gaining serious momentum as Clinton started sliding at the end of the primaries. That was not a good time for Dems to be slipping cause she already won by then. What changed during the primaries I wonder?The thing is that during the primaries, Clinton and Sanders seemed to just not have any major disagreements on any issues.
It seems to me a very odd idea that "Sanders could have united the party against Trump" when Clinton was unable to do so at least enough to win the electoral college, and Clinton got several million more votes than Sanders did in the primaries.
I'm not sure what you're saying here. I am also unaware that "Sanders was gaining serious momentum" toward the end of the primaries. Obviously, "momentum" is a metaphor here.Because I am pretty pessimistic of a large part of our society I am sure even the gender difference would have been enough. We apparently were still not ready. Sanders was gaining serious momentum as Clinton started sliding at the end of the primaries. That was not a good time for Dems to be slipping cause she already won by then. What changed during the primaries I wonder?
Just to note: During the last two months of the Democratic primaries, Clinton won 4 of 5 states/territories holding elections in May, and she won 8 of the 9 states/territories with elections in June: Results of the Democratic Party presidential primaries, 2016 - Wikipedia Thus, these results certainly do not indicate that Sanders was “gaining serious momentum” or becoming more popular among voters toward the end of the primaries.Sanders was gaining serious momentum as Clinton started sliding at the end of the primaries.
"Clinton won Iowa by the closest margin in the history of the state's Democratic caucus. O'Malley suspended his campaign after a distant third-place finish, leaving Clinton and Sanders the only two candidates. The electoral battle turned out to be more competitive than expected, with Sanders winning the New Hampshire primary while Clinton scored victories in the Nevada caucuses and South Carolina primary. "Just to note: During the last two months of the Democratic primaries, Clinton won 4 of 5 states/territories holding elections in May, and she won 8 of the 9 states/territories with elections in June: Results of the Democratic Party presidential primaries, 2016 - Wikipedia Thus, these results certainly do not indicate that Sanders was “gaining serious momentum” or becoming more popular among voters toward the end of the primaries.
So, Sanders obviously wasn't "gaining serious momentum," but losing "momentum"."Clinton won Iowa by the closest margin in the history of the state's Democratic caucus. O'Malley suspended his campaign after a distant third-place finish, leaving Clinton and Sanders the only two candidates. The electoral battle turned out to be more competitive than expected, with Sanders winning the New Hampshire primary while Clinton scored victories in the Nevada caucuses and South Carolina primary. "
The way I read that is Sanders actually made it a competition( or more so than expected). Then Sanders won New Hampshire. It was just too late Clinton already won. Nobody else can say that they made it a competition in the primaries certainly not the republicans that were trying to beat Trump. We wouldn't have known when Clinton was landsliding states that it would end up 55% to 43%, that is a healthy chunk of Dems not going for Hillary. Who knows what could have happened with those votes if independents were allowed to vote the primaries in most states. I'd say the numbers were not that close at first, something started making Clinton slide even before Comey let her off the hook.So, Sanders obviously wasn't "gaining serious momentum," but losing "momentum".
Whose expectations are these?The way I read that is Sanders actually made it a competition( or more so than expected).
You're saying that Clinton had already won by the time of the second primary?Then Sanders won New Hampshire. It was just too late Clinton already won.
California, Texas, Ohio, Illinois were all open primaries, which Sanders lost.Nobody else can say that they made it a competition in the primaries certainly not the republicans that were trying to beat Trump. We wouldn't have known when Clinton was landsliding states that it would end up 55% to 43%, that is a healthy chunk of Dems not going for Hillary. Who knows what could have happened with those votes if independents were allowed to vote the primaries in most states.
Are you referring to something real here? When did Clinton "slide"?something started making Clinton slide
I'm not in the camp of blaming Sanders. Just saying he gave competition, too little too late but competition none the less. Sanders lacked three million votes but managed to beat popular votes of most the Republican candidates and just shy of even beating trump at the popular vote for primaries. Interestingly it was 3 Million popular votes difference in the main election.Whose expectations are these?
Why are anyone's undocumented expectations important to the topic here?
You're saying that Clinton had already won by the time of the second primary?
California, Texas, Ohio, Illinois were all open primaries, which Sanders lost.
Sanders could have run for President as an independent, or presumably the Socialist Party would have let him run. Why not blame Sanders for not doing that, rather than blaming someone else for his losing the Democratic nomination?
Are you referring to something real here? When did Clinton "slide"?
Evidence?A good example is abortion rights. Most Democrats want limited access to abortion.
Limited access to abortion does not mean that abortion would be illegal. It actually means that abortion would be legal. It would just be limited in regards to how far along the pregnancy is.Evidence?
From Pew ...
Views on abortion by political party and ideology, 2017
Conservative Republicans are far more likely to say abortion should be illegal in all or most cases than to say that it should be legal (71% vs. 27%). Among moderate and liberal Republicans, opinion is more evenly divided: 54% say abortion should be legal, while 45% say it should be illegal.
The vast majority of liberal Democrats support legal abortion (91%) as do six-in-ten (61%) conservative and moderate Democrats. [emphasis asses - JS]
More specifically to your statement, most Democrats don't want federal funding for abortions but I don't like what Texas does limiting clinic access and making people travel great distances.Limited access to abortion does not mean that abortion would be illegal. It actually means that abortion would be legal. It would just be limited in regards to how far along the pregnancy is.
I agree. The Planned Parenthood fiasco is pretty absurd. They don't even use federal funds for abortions, yet Republicans constantly lie and claim that is what they primarily do. PP also provides subsidized health services for those who can't afford it. Then the Republicans say, "can't someplace else do it"? Which is ridiculous because PP is already in place and working fine.More specifically to your statement, most Democrats don't want federal funding for abortions but I don't like what Texas does limiting clinic access and making people travel great distances.
Obviously the chronological results of the states' primaries cannot be used to measure whether a candidate became more (or less) popular during the primaries, since each state primary is an independent election. The fact that Clinton won Ohio on March 15, and Sanders won the next primary in Alaska on March 22 means nothing about anyone's increasing or decreasing popularity. It doesn't imply that any voter's support changed anywhere.No clinton probably didn't slide, I need to take that back, more like Sanders got sporadic wins and not consistent enough. (I thought I remembered more consistency in the state wins)
Of course your aren't. No one would claim that you would ever blame Sanders for anything.I'm not in the camp of blaming Sanders.
More specifically to your statement, most Democrats don't want federal funding for abortions but I don't like what Texas does limiting clinic access and making people travel great distances.
Indeed, a study by Analisa Packham of Miami University found that Texas' 2011 funding cuts to family planning clinics led to an increase in teen birth rates by 3.7-4.7% two years after the funding cuts, and 10.3-11.2% three years afterward, accompanied by an increase in abortion rates of 4.9% two years after, and 3.1% over three years: Family Planning Funding Cuts and Teen ChildbearingI agree. The Planned Parenthood fiasco is pretty absurd. They don't even use federal funds for abortions, yet Republicans constantly lie and claim that is what they primarily do. PP also provides subsidized health services for those who can't afford it. Then the Republicans say, "can't someplace else do it"? Which is ridiculous because PP is already in place and working fine.
We probably will never know cause he didn't make it to the general election. What I couldn't see happening is Sanders having as big a target on his back as did Hillary. Seemed even the FBI was after her, they wouldn't have had as much ammunition on Sanders, that with the mysoginists coming out of the woodwork, Sanders could have done as well or even better... or that Sanders would have fared better than Clintion did in the general election against Trump.
We know that Clinton was always more popular among Democrats throughout the primaries.We probably will never know
I don't think that carried over to general election. Too many targets on that woman's back.We know that Clinton was always more popular among Democrats throughout the primaries.
You can believe whatever you want. There is no rational reason to believe that Sanders would have gotten more votes than Clinton did in the general election.I don't think that carried over to general election. Too many targets on that woman's back.