You refer to universities or monks preserving knowledge or philosophy or what? Francis Bacon's ideas were secular and kicked off the modern Science movment. In a Nutshell what were the contributions of religion you think?
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What do non-religious people contribute to the world that religious people can't?
- Thread starter Vinayaka
- Start date
Augustus
…
Even if we ignored the fact that the Church was the biggest funder of scientific research and scholarship, education, translation, etc. it would still have made significant contributions.
Bacon's views were not 'secular' though. The prevalence of the idea that the universe was ordered (by its creator) and followed rules that could be discovered by humans was significantly impacted by theology, as was the progressive, teleological view of history.
Due to certain theological beliefs such as the Fall of Man, Christian scientists like Boyle, Newton and Bacon rejected the Greek belief that reason alone was sufficient in order to practice natural philosophy. This gave rise to the experimental approach prevalent in modern science. At first this approach was widely mocked as being useless, and mainly gained social legitimacy (and thus funding and longevity) due to its perceived benefit to theology. Most historical societies had no interest in knowledge that had no obvious practical applications.
Many of these things are so instinctive to us that we think they are self-evidently true, yet most human societies have seen things differently from this.
Maybe not to other religious charity, but the religious folks have empathy so they will give to other secular causes - such as research in fields of medicine or assistance with food, clothing, basics etc.
The "some, not all" applies to any category you create.
Making such buckets does not help, there is no well-defined boundary and a lot of overlap.
Bill and Melinda Gates Foundation contributing to COVID vaccine for the world? What category is this?
Observation shows that the global religious groups do not have national boundaries and they help various parts of the world "their way" as that one group.
Anything that works towards a purpose is a group irrespective of a category label.
Again, making such buckets does not help, the walls of those buckets are bound to crack and break to cause overlap. Reverse osmosis.
Ghat ghat me hai Ram/Shiv. Ghat = earthen pot. In this context , pot = category or group you create.
The pot breaks , and the inner Bramh-space merges with the outer Bramh-space and you cannot tell which is which - the popular Hindu dharma analogy.
OR
You cannot make overlapping pots.
Altfish
Veteran Member
Can you give me any examples of where that has happened?
The job might be to acknowledge there is but one.
Unity in diversity, just like a rainbow.
Regards Tony
Altfish
Veteran Member
Have you ever considered the mental health of the mother.
btw Where was it done in the name of atheism?
In rural times here in Canada there were co-operatives. One was called a beef ring. It was when 10 or so farmers got together, and took turns sharing one animal. So when it was your turn you gave. If not, the nex
I wasn't generalising to all religious people, just those extremely limited by their own tribalism. But, sure.
The non religious would need to be guided by a movement to achieve any lasting benefits from their actions, otherwise it is ignition without fuel.
There is Faith without many of the boundaries you have mentioned.
At the same time, we also have to know we need set boundaries, so civilization can flourish. Anarchy can not work.
Regards Tony
Many non-religious people give a ton, guided by their own conscience, which i don't feel is a movement at all.
Yes there is lots of faith that isn't very tribal. I'm not addressing that.
What I am addressing is the _________ (name any religion) who, if he sees two beggars on the street, and one is his religion, and the other isn't, he can only (or even 99% of the time) help the member of his own religion, because his field, box, mindset, etc. simply cannot go outside of that because of his hard wired tribalism. That is a limiting factor for such folks.
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
Religion didn't put a man into space, on the moon, radio, TV, Internet, computers, electricity, chemicals that enhance our lives, disprove the Earth isn't flat, the sun revolves around the Earth, disproved Creation and the universe, Atoms, the list of what we got without religion is endless.
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
The problem is finding the one true one.
As I pointed out in another thread we face problems today that no "Messiah" has addressed. So all fakes.
Non-religion did all this?
Please provide evidence that the people that did all of these things were atheists.
Which messiahs are alive today that you're referring to?
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
I never claimed that. Did religion set up any of the research into those disciplines?
PAUL MARKHAM
Well-Known Member
There are no Messiahs alive today.
osgart
Nothing my eye, Something for sure
I would like to think that non religious people have an open mind toward exploring the frontiers of the unknown. But I don't think that is the case. We are creatures of stories and narratives that like to make us think we have the firmest grasp of reality. There's more unknowns, then knowns though.
I don't think it matters if you are religious or not. Its a matter of your heart being in the right place.
I don't think it matters if you are religious or not. Its a matter of your heart being in the right place.
Well I suppose that might be why they're not out solving today's problems.
The Bolsheviks "28 Russian Orthodox bishops and more than 1,200 priests were killed"
Quote from - Religion in the Soviet Union - Wikipedia
Lenin wrote "...when society, ...has freed itself and all its members from the bondage.... only then will the last extraneous force which is still reflected in religion vanish..." So for a time the Bolsheviks tolerated Muslims who were 1/10th of the population, but they didn't hesitate to kill in order to extinguish religion. They killed lots of orthodox in the name of purifying society from religion, though it was of course for political consolidation. It was done in the name of atheism.
quote from - Religion in the Soviet Union
No. Why would it? Are you suggesting scientific discovery is the purpose of all religion?
Altfish
Veteran Member
But they were killed in the name of Communism not atheism